HEx 332's - In Decline?

[Dave91131]

Hi,

Yesterday (Mon 6th Aug) 4 out of the 5 HEx diagrams were single units, whereas a few weeks ago (a week day in late May) all 5 diagrams were pairs.

I've seen all 5 diagrams on a few other week days recently too, and aside from 014 which is probably destined to never run again I haven't seen 005 or 008 in service since before said day in late May.

Just wondering if anybody knows whether 005 and/or 008 are stopped, stood down for cannibalising etc.

And as a side note, whether I am correct in thinking 014 has turned its last wheel under its own power.

Thanks
Dave

 

[TFN]

The short formations have been planned

 

[Dave91131]

The short formations have been planned

Is that for maintenance? Or some other reason?

 

[332 > 444]

Yes unit 014 has been stripped internally, can't tell ya about 005 and 008 as that's after my time there.

 

[delticdave]

Is that for maintenance? Or some other reason?

Maybe the validity of Oyster / Travelcards to the airport has undermined the HeathEx traffic?

It's not that much quicker than the cheaper Connect locals...........

Or, there are possible problems with the 332's?

 

[Journeyman]

Maybe the validity of Oyster / Travelcards to the airport has undermined the HeathEx traffic?

It's not that much quicker than the cheaper Connect locals...........

Or, there are possible problems with the 332's?

Yup. I'm not a particularly price-sensitive consumer, but the cost of HEx is absolutely bloody ridiculous, and the small time saving just isn't worth the huge premium.

 

[DidcotDickie]

It's summer, and much of the business world is on holiday in August so there won't necessarily be the traffic to justify the use of 9 car formations.

Regarding the fare price of HEx, as has been stated so many times previously, it's a premium service aimed at business and non-price sensitive leisure travellers which is priced to compete with the taxi fare. I wouldn't normally use it for leisure travel but do for business travel from home to LHR. Those more budget conscious have the choice of Connect or the Piccadilly line. I expect that Crossrail, when fully operational, will put a dent in the HEx business model.

 

[DenmarkRail]

I don't even use Heathrow anymore, because it became so much easier to switch from British Airways to KLM / Air France from a regional airport, and change in AMSTERDAM/PARIS... I used to be top tier BA exec, and to get to LHR it took the best part of 3 hours... I can get to BIRMINGHAM in an hour, and have an hour in AMS. Takes a little longer (not much) but it tends to be cheeper because HEX always charged huge fares, which were never proportional to what you received... I can get to BHX for something like £15, where to Heathrow, it costs £61... I don't even think business travellers would use HEX... Also the stock themselves are not good enough.

 

[Mikey C]

It's summer, and much of the business world is on holiday in August so there won't necessarily be the traffic to justify the use of 9 car formations.

Regarding the fare price of HEx, as has been stated so many times previously, it's a premium service aimed at business and non-price sensitive leisure travellers which is priced to compete with the taxi fare. I wouldn't normally use it for leisure travel but do for business travel from home to LHR. Those more budget conscious have the choice of Connect or the Piccadilly line. I expect that Crossrail, when fully operational, will put a dent in the HEx business model.

But surely there will be more leisure travel instead? People on their annual main holiday, whether to or from London, especially on long haul flights will consider HEx as part of the holiday cost. The Piccadilly line in the recent heatwave will have been horrible, while TfL rail is still only half hourly.

Crossrail will take much of the HEx business, but it isn't open yet.

 

[Dave91131]

Thanks to all for the replies.

If anybody knows anything about or sees 005 or 008 then any info would be welcome.

Thanks again.

 

[Ianno87]

But surely there will be more leisure travel instead? People on their annual main holiday, whether to or from London, especially on long haul flights will consider HEx as part of the holiday cost. The Piccadilly line in the recent heatwave will have been horrible, while TfL rail is still only half hourly.

Crossrail will take much of the HEx business, but it isn't open yet.

You're probably right to some extent, but I'd suspect leisure is more consistent in demand profile across the day whilst business travel will be peakier in its nature - the 9 car sets necessary for meeting these peaks.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

To be honest I'm surprised HEX has survived as long as it has since Heathrow Connect launched, are these business travellers really so allergic to the poor? Sure, it's non-stop, but I'm still surprised they can get away with charging such a premium for a fairly modest time-saving.

The 332s themselves are not long for this world, anyway.

 

[Malcolmffc]

A lot of HEx’s business seems to come from conning tourists that they are the only way of getting to London. There are adverts everywhere on the way out of the terminal and even people trying to sell Express tickets in the arrivals hall. In contrast the cheaper Connect and Underground services are barely visible.

 

[Mikey C]

To be honest I'm surprised HEX has survived as long as it has since Heathrow Connect launched, are these business travellers really so allergic to the poor? Sure, it's non-stop, but I'm still surprised they can get away with charging such a premium for a fairly modest time-saving.

The 332s themselves are not long for this world, anyway.

HEx ticket if bought in advance with a railcard (off peak) aren't too expensive. Especially as Connect is only half hourly

 

[Kite159]

HEx ticket if bought in advance with a railcard (off peak) aren't too expensive. Especially as Connect is only half hourly

And especially as the Connect service was one of the first to be dropped at any whiff of issues on the GWML.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

HEx ticket if bought in advance with a railcard (off peak) aren't too expensive. Especially as Connect is only half hourly

Suppose London folk are spoilt a bit... for those of us in the North, a half-hourly interval service to connect to a flight is more than frequent enough because we're usually dealing with hourly or less. We just allow for disruption on that basis.

 

[Mikey C]

Suppose London folk are spoilt a bit... for those of us in the North, a half-hourly interval service to connect to a flight is more than frequent enough because we're usually dealing with hourly or less. We just allow for disruption on that basis.

Heathrow has far more long haul flights than other UK airports, and far more business and first class passengers. The HEx customers aren't people catching an Eastjet or Ryanair type flight...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Heathrow has far more long haul flights than other UK airports, and far more business and first class passengers. The HEx customers aren't people catching an Eastjet or Ryanair type flight...

That may well be the case, but I'm still surprised there's ever a need for 9-car units on HEx considering the cost and the frequency. Out of interest, what's the heavy-rail* modal share for onward travel to/from Heathrow?

*=yes, I know the Piccadilly line is technically also heavy-rail, but you know what I mean!

 

[dk1]

To be honest I'm surprised HEX has survived as long as it has since Heathrow Connect launched, are these business travellers really so allergic to the poor? Sure, it's non-stop, but I'm still surprised they can get away with charging such a premium for a fairly modest time-saving.

You only have to look at the amount of Heathrow passengers who can't even be bothered to use public transport at all & simply jump into a black cab all the way to/from the airport even though there is the time penalty. Cost really isn't a consideration for many so the HEx premium doesn't always make a difference.

 

[HA25322]

Never seen 005 or 014 work. I don't think I ever will see 014 with passengers on now which is a shame. I may pop over next Friday and have a look. I still need 360205 so may have to pop to Heathrow for that anyway.

 

[cactustwirly]

That may well be the case, but I'm still surprised there's ever a need for 9-car units on HEx considering the cost and the frequency. Out of interest, what's the heavy-rail* modal share for onward travel to/from Heathrow?

*=yes, I know the Piccadilly line is technically also heavy-rail, but you know what I mean!

Cost isn't really an issue for the HEx clientele, they're either rich tourists or business travellers on expenses.
As it stands the HEx is better than the Connect because if the frequency and speed

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Cost isn't really an issue for the HEx clientele, they're either rich tourists or business travellers on expenses.
As it stands the HEx is better than the Connect because if the frequency and speed

Then with all due respect (i.e. very little) those people aren't living in the real world. ***dons tin hat***

 

[hwl]

Then with all due respect (i.e. very little) those people aren't living in the real world. ***dons tin hat***

When my wife travels on business via Heathrow, from the office it is tube to Paddington then HEx, from home minicab (local reliable firm) as the firm is paying.
For personal travel we just get the tube (1 change).

When Crossrail opens fully my wife will just walk 200m from the office to the Crossrail station and get it instead of HEx as it will be both quicker, easier and cheaper (Crossrail will save the firm at least 80k pa in HEx / taxis from Heathrow if all their employees do this)

 

[jimm]

Cost isn't really an issue for the HEx clientele, they're either rich tourists or business travellers on expenses.
As it stands the HEx is better than the Connect because if the frequency and speed

Then with all due respect (i.e. very little) those people aren't living in the real world. ***dons tin hat***

Speaking as someone who is neither a rich tourist nor a business traveller on expenses, yet has somehow set foot on a Heathrow Express service from time to time, I can assure you there are plenty of people using it who do not fit into either category.

I have never made a habit of it, but there are certain times of the day when using the Railair coach from Reading is a total lottery as a result of the amount of traffic on the M4, or the less frequent Heathrow Connect/TfL services are full of West London commuters. Then it becomes a case of biting the financial bullet on HEx in order to be sure of reaching Heathrow in time for a long-haul flight, where missing it would be a lot more financially painful than either the HEx fare, or having to pay for another flight to my destination.

There are other airports around the world where premium shuttle trains operate alongside others doing the same journey, whether local, regional or long-distance.

The French are going to provide an express link between Paris and Charles de Gaulle airport by 2024 - the commuter-laden RER Line B can often be a less than fantastic 'welcome to France' experience - and if Frankfurt airport was a bit further out from the city centre, I'm sure the Germans would do the same - 10 minutes riding on some of their old S-Bahn stock was more than enough.

Crossrail may well make a difference to travel habits, thanks to the direct link to the City and Canary Wharf, but does anyone seriously think the Class 345 interior lends itself to handling lots of airport passengers with large, heavy luggage strewn about? Just what you don't need mixing with peak commuters in a hurry to get on and off the train.

We may well live to regret the tunnels under London offering nothing much more than a glorified Tube service. Being able to send a number of limited-stop airport passenger-friendly trains between Abbey Wood and Heathrow, just calling at Canary Wharf, Liverpool Street, Farringdon and Paddington, might have been a good idea.

 

[hwl]

GWR were apparently going to take over the operational side of HEx this August as part of the deal announced at Easter time, is the August transfer still happening? If so is having lots of the units out for maintenance part of the deal e.g. they have to be in working order on transfer day?

 

[387star]

The GWR 387s allocated will be refurbished to a higher standard

surely the Gx 387S can be worked on at the same time

 

[physics34]

The GWR 387s allocated will be refurbished to a higher standard

surely the Gx 387S can be worked on at the same time

Exactly. But the GX doubles up as a commuter service at peak times. Unlikely theyll improve the seating
First class is still a disgrace on them.

 

[Dave91131]

Never seen 005 or 014 work. I don't think I ever will see 014 with passengers on now which is a shame. I may pop over next Friday and have a look. I still need 360205 so may have to pop to Heathrow for that anyway.

Update - 332008 seen in service on Sat 25th August, and travelled on too. All 5 HEx diagrams on that day were single units, 2 4-car and 3 5-car. One unit was parked in one of the platforms at Terminal 5, all others presumably on OOC.

360205 - on the few occasions I have been in the area since the May timetable change this has always been parked up on OOC, and on most of those occasions the inter-Heathrow shuttle has not been running meaning Terminal 4 has only seen a train every 30 minutes. Not sure if this is just pot luck or if it is out of use.

332005 - still not seen in service for man months, any info on whether this is condemned like 014 would be welcomed.

Thanks

 

[1D53]

360205 was my last one required and I copped it last Saturday so it is absolutely out and alive and well.

 

[superalbs]

It was also out on the 4th of August on the London Paddington - Heathrow services.