Herts, why is the traffic so bad?

[cactustwirly]

So I went on a day trip to St Alban's yesterday, however the whole city was gridlocked!
It was also impossible to get a parking space!
So we gave up and went to Hertford instead, which was slightly better.

I live near Reading, which is much bigger than both places, but whilst the traffic is bad, it's still possible to drive around and park your car!

 

[Bald Rick]

What time were you around? I was driving around St Albans at 1300 and 1600, and the traffic was much better than normal - it was almost free flowing.

The two things that normally snarl up St Albans are either an accident on the M1 somewhere between junctions 6 and 9, or heavy rain, the latter of which only normally has an effect on weekdays. Also the A414 north orbital suffers if there are problems on the M25 between junctions 21 and 23, but this doesn’t usually cause problems in St Albans itself.

Parking - I have never not been able to park in St Albans, I guess local knowledge helps though!

 

[cactustwirly]

What time were you around? I was driving around St Albans at 1300 and 1600, and the traffic was much better than normal - it was almost free flowing.

The two things that normally snarl up St Albans are either an accident on the M1 somewhere between junctions 6 and 9, or heavy rain, the latter of which only normally has an effect on weekdays. Also the A414 north orbital suffers if there are problems on the M25 between junctions 21 and 23, but this doesn’t usually cause problems in St Albans itself.

Parking - I have never not been able to park in St Albans, I guess local knowledge helps though!

Between 12 & 1pm.
Literally the whole city centre was gridlocked, and all the car parks were full.
My Dad in particular said that he'd never seen anything like it!

 

[Ianno87]

Between 12 & 1pm.
Literally the whole city centre was gridlocked, and all the car parks were full.
My Dad in particular said that he'd never seen anything like it!

Not Herts I know, but Cambridge was weirdly busy yesterday. Scores on the doors showed all car parks full as I walked in at about 1400.

 

[class387]

So I went on a day trip to St Alban's yesterday, however the whole city was gridlocked!
It was also impossible to get a parking space!
So we gave up and went to Hertford instead, which was slightly better.

I live near Reading, which is much bigger than both places, but whilst the traffic is bad, it's still possible to drive around and park your car!

St Albans is always quite bad, but it is especially bad on market days. I wouldn't say everywhere in Herts is bad, just a few individual places (St Albans, North Watford etc).

 

[Bald Rick]

Between 12 & 1pm.
Literally the whole city centre was gridlocked, and all the car parks were full.
My Dad in particular said that he'd never seen anything like it!

Well it was fine when I drove across just after 1300. Although there was severe flooding next to the Abbey station at 1600, but that wasn’t calling any problems (apart from those who are too scared to drive through a large puddle).

I can guarantee there would have been spaces available at the station car parks (an 8-10 minute walk from the middle of the city), and it’s very rare for there to be no spaces in the Bricket Road car park behind the Alban Arena.

 

[cactustwirly]

Well it was fine when I drove across just after 1300. Although there was severe flooding next to the Abbey station at 1600, but that wasn’t calling any problems (apart from those who are too scared to drive brought s large puddle).

I can guarantee there would have been spaces available at the station car parks (an 8-10 minute walk from the middle of the city), and it’s very rare for there to be no spaces in the Bricket Road car park behind the Alban Arena.

I didn't know that, all of the city centre car parks were full

 

[Bald Rick]

I didn't know that, all of the city centre car parks were full

I suspect you mean that all the car parks with counting sensors were showing as full on the signs. But there are plenty of other places to park that don’t show on the signs, and even then the counters are notoriously unreliable. Bricket Road car park often shows full when it isn’t, because it has higher capacity at weekends.

 

[AndrewE]

So I went on a day trip to St Alban's yesterday, however the whole city was gridlocked!
It was also impossible to get a parking space!
So we gave up and went to Hertford instead, which was slightly better.

I live near Reading, which is much bigger than both places, but whilst the traffic is bad, it's still possible to drive around and park your car!

It must be all those other people who insist on driving in to a town centre...
Alternatively, you could knock down all the shops and make the land into car parks.

 

[cactustwirly]

It must be all those other people who insist on driving in to a town centre...
Alternatively, you could knock down all the shops and make the land into car parks.

Sorry, but the train to St Alban's from my house is over 2 hours and is horrendously expensive, especially for 3 people.
The car only takes 45 minutes...

 

[Bald Rick]

The car only takes 45 minutes...

45 mins on a good day! My Mrs took 2 hours to drive to Bracknell on Friday.

(Point taken though)

 

[cactustwirly]

45 mins on a good day! My Mrs took 2 hours to drive to Bracknell on Friday.

(Point taken though)

But I'd be great if there was like a direct Reading - Luton service via the Dudding Hill line...

 

[gazthomas]

As someone who lives in the city I understand your plight! Local knowledge here is essential as the main thoroughfares can become snarled up, I avoid the main thoroughfares of London Road and St Peter's Street. Key to its charm are the narrow roads which pre date cars of course! That said parking is never an issue, I'm surprised you couldn't get to Westminster Lodge by Abbey Station quite easily, park there and then take the short hike up the hill into the main centre. Park and ride is also an option.

 

[Bald Rick]

As someone who lives in the city I understand your plight! Local knowledge here is essential as the main thoroughfares can become snarled up, I avoid the main thoroughfares of London Road and St Peter's Street. Key to its charm are the narrow roads which pre date cars of course! That said parking is never an issue, I'm surprised you couldn't get to Westminster Lodge by Abbey Station quite easily, park there and then take the short hike up the hill into the main centre. Park and ride is also an option.

Westminster Lodge car park is often full at weekends (rarely in the week).

Park and ride from where?

 

[Bald Rick]

But I'd be great if there was like a direct Reading - Luton service via the Dudding Hill line...

That would probably also take about 2 hours! (If paths existed, which they won’t post Crossrail).

 

[gazthomas]

Westminster Lodge car park is often full at weekends (rarely in the week).

Park and ride from where?

Silly me, I meant parking somewhere like the Camp, London Colney or Hatfield Road and getting a normal bus

 

[PeterY]

I cycled around the St Albans area about midday yesterday and thought just how busy it was. I got around the ring road, north side, a lot lot faster than the traffic.
St Albans is always bad especially around Holywell Hill and the King Harry pub area.

 

[AndrewE]

Were people doing their shopping ahead of Remembrance day ( i.e. bringing their usual Sunday activity forward a day?)

 

[Bald Rick]

St Albans is always bad especially around Holywell Hill and the King Harry pub area.

Not always, but it can be. For example On Saturdays around 1600/1700 the queue up to the King Harry leaving town can stretch down past the Sainsbury’s roundabout and back to the Abbey. Yesterday at that time, no queue at all.

The worst traffic, without question, is around the station when 3 trains ex London arrive within 4 minutes of each other, particularly if there has been some disruption on the line. It can then take 20 minutes just to get out of station road. Hence why I don’t drive to the station!

 

[bramling]

So I went on a day trip to St Alban's yesterday, however the whole city was gridlocked!
It was also impossible to get a parking space!
So we gave up and went to Hertford instead, which was slightly better.

I live near Reading, which is much bigger than both places, but whilst the traffic is bad, it's still possible to drive around and park your car!

The short answer is too many people, something which has got worse in the last decade or two with much new housing being built. Also due to the area generally being fairly affluent, many households have multiple cars. In my road there’s households with six or seven cars - one each for husband and wife, another for the weekend break to Betws-y-coed or wherever, and one each for the kids.

Both St Albans and Hertford suffer a little in that they carry quite a bit of through traffic. Hertford, once a fairly quiet town, can be horrendous at times. St Albans has always been bad. And in all cases it only takes one small issue somewhere nearby, especially on the motorway network (itself completely stretched) and it quickly results in complete chaos and gridlock, which can quickly percolate down to even the smallest country lanes.

 

[AndrewE]

The short answer is too many people, something which has got worse in the last decade or two with much new housing being built. Also due to the area generally being fairly affluent, many households have multiple cars. In my road there’s households with six or seven cars - one each for husband and wife, another for the weekend break to Betws-y-coed or wherever, and one each for the kids.-

That's all true, but there would be no problem if they just left the vehicles covering their gardens or choking their home streets. The real problem is that almost no-one (apart from PeterY and me and my wife) can be arsed to walk, cycle or get the bus into town nowadays.

 

[bramling]

That's all true, but there would be no problem if they just left the vehicles covering their gardens or choking their home streets. The real problem is that almost no-one (apart from PeterY and me and my wife) can be arsed to walk, cycle or get the bus into town nowadays.

Vicious cycle. I used to cycle a lot more, but with increasing traffic (and a very noticeable decline in the standard of driving in the last couple of decades) I’ve got to the point where I rarely bother nowadays. Likewise walking down the town is likely to lead to breathing in mouthfuls of unpleasant - and harmful - fumes.

Too many people in a given space is the main issue - everything is very much more noticeably overcrowded now compared to the 1990s.

 

[Bald Rick]

Too many people in a given space is the main issue - everything is very much more noticeably overcrowded now compared to the 1990s.

I disagree with this. Once you get above a certain density, people don’t bother owning a car, as everything is a easy walk. There’s a couple of relatively new developments near the station in St Albans where car ownership is relatively low. So your point is probably that once there are a ‘certain number of people in a given space’ it is a problem, but above or below that density it isn’t so much of an issue.

I had a huge discussion / argument with my dad about this yesterday. He can’t understand how anyone can get by without a car. I explained that within my team, all of whom live in London, only 1 of them has a car. ‘What do they do when they want to go on holiday?’ He asked. “Get the train, or Uber to the airport, or hire a car”. ‘But what about the shopping?’ “You get it delivered, or shop little and often, or eat out”. He still doesn’t get it!

 

[John Webb]

I can confirm that in the 40+ years I've lived in the St Albans area, traffic has noticeably increased. We are also getting into the Christmas shopping period, which always sees a marked increase in any case. Going to St Albans South box at lunchtime today to prepare for one of our open afternoons, the last mile took as long as the previous three from one of the nearby villages where I live, having foolishly stuck to the main roads......
At the weekends the St Albans City station carparks are less used and only a short distance from numerous bus routes into the city centre, which can be one way of parking - but coming from Reading I suspect you came in from the South-West which would take you into one of the older and narrowest of the approaches to the city centre; and to get round to the station car parks would not be easy.
Do try again, perhaps in the New Year when the Christmas rush has gone - we have several good museums, the cathedral and other interesting buildings in a fairly compact area.
Further north in Herts, and further away from motorways, traffic does ease off somewhat and parking can be significantly easier.

 

[Bald Rick]

I can confirm that in the 40+ years I've lived in the St Albans area, traffic has noticeably increased.

I’ve been here 15 years, and lived in 4 parts of the city in that time, but I haven’t noticed any significant increase in traffic in that time. Indeed in some places it has got better.

What I have noticed is a significant increase in cycling and walking to the station, which is a notable proportion of peak traffic. I used to drive to the station, but a combination of cost and personal health now see me walk. I’m not the only one to have made that decision either.

Perhaps the biggest traffic problem is school traffic, as when the little darlings are on holiday the traffic just disappears in the morning.

I do agree that Saturdays in the run up to Christmas are a pain. But I refuse to accept it is the run up to Christmas until it is December, and the date has two digits and a 2 at the start...

 

[bramling]

I disagree with this. Once you get above a certain density, people don’t bother owning a car, as everything is a easy walk. There’s a couple of relatively new developments near the station in St Albans where car ownership is relatively low. So your point is probably that once there are a ‘certain number of people in a given space’ it is a problem, but above or below that density it isn’t so much of an issue.

I had a huge discussion / argument with my dad about this yesterday. He can’t understand how anyone can get by without a car. I explained that within my team, all of whom live in London, only 1 of them has a car. ‘What do they do when they want to go on holiday?’ He asked. “Get the train, or Uber to the airport, or hire a car”. ‘But what about the shopping?’ “You get it delivered, or shop little and often, or eat out”. He still doesn’t get it!

Road congestion isn't the only thing which has increased in the last two decades though. My local station is considerably busier now at all times of day than in the 1990s - and without looking at the figures I bet St Albans has seen a hefty increase in that time too.

Also, it's all very well saying everything is easy walk. That isn't always the case - many new developments are on the outskirts of towns, or in villages. I'm sure people *could* manage without a car, however reality is most *choose* not to.

 

[AndrewE]

Road congestion isn't the only thing which has increased in the last two decades though. My local station is considerably busier now at all times of day than in the 1990s - and without looking at the figures I bet St Albans has seen a hefty increase in that time too.

Also, it's all very well saying everything is easy walk. That isn't always the case - many new developments are on the outskirts of towns, or in villages. I'm sure people *could* manage without a car, however reality is most *choose* not to.

No-one is saying that everything is easy to walk. If people were to transfer to cycling and using buses then half the congestion and pollution would vanish. It's going to come, and the NHS will see a big reduction in costs as a consequence.
It's a tragedy that we have a government that doesn't understand "joined-up thinking" (or forbids Civil Servants from doing it.)

 

[jon0844]

With the reduced weekend trains, and buses being decimated throughout Hertfordshire (but certainly worse in some places than others) it is not surprising more people will take to their cars. Hertfordshire County Council must know that cutting funding for buses and many routes finishing around 1900, instead of 2000-2300, a lot of people can't take the bus in the morning if they can't use it to get home. So in their car they go, to block streets near stations, or drive all the way to work when public transport COULD be a viable alternative.

Obviously not all journeys could be done easily even before the bus cuts, but it's about getting as many people out of their cars as possible by making it beneficial for the user. More carrots, less sticks.

 

[AM9]

What I have noticed is a significant increase in cycling and walking to the station, which is a notable proportion of peak traffic. I used to drive to the station, but a combination of cost and personal health now see me walk. I’m not the only one to have made that decision either.

I'd agree with that. For those on the western side, the Alban Way is a boon and there is an increasing voliume of pedestrians/cyclists using that to get from St Stephens and Verulam areas. It's possible to cross King Harry Lane and St Stephens Hill and cover the rest of the walk off-road and away from the pollution of any major roads.

Perhaps the biggest traffic problem is school traffic, as when the little darlings are on holiday the traffic just disappears in the morning.

That really is becoming a problem with all those poor young teenagers so weak/disabled that they have to be dropped at the door of St Columbus in their parents' SUV, completely siezing up King Harry Lane.

I do agree that Saturdays in the run up to Christmas are a pain. But I refuse to accept it is the run up to Christmas until it is December, and the date has two digits and a 2 at the start...

I never drive to the city centre on a December Saturday, a walk across the park is not only quicker but also much more pleasant,.[/QUOTE]

 

[bramling]

No-one is saying that everything is easy to walk. If people were to transfer to cycling and using buses then half the congestion and pollution would vanish. It's going to come, and the NHS will see a big reduction in costs as a consequence.
It's a tragedy that we have a government that doesn't understand "joined-up thinking" (or forbids Civil Servants from doing it.)

I sort of agree with the principle, however I’m seeing the reality is that things are heading the opposite way. I hardly cycle nowadays as I regard it as too much of a liability on-road now, and I’m not interested in cycle paths as they’re too slow and indifferent.

There’s some people who simply will not change from the car being their default choice. There are a *lot* of people, and perhaps especially so in Hertfordshire, who have a mindset along the lines of (i) cycling is a leisure pursuit for children from poor families, (ii) buses are for the scum of the earth and wouldn’t be seen dead on one, (iii) being seen leaving the house any way other than by car is a symbol of not having made it in life, and (iv) trains are okay for the odd Saturday shopping trip to London but no more than that.

Personally I don’t subscribe to the above, and I’m happy to take the train or cycle where practicable. However if one cycles then one becomes the scum of the earth to many (look no further than some of the cycle threads on this forum where one seems to turn into a monster just for mounting a bike!), whilst trains are increasingly overcrowded and thus unpleasant to use, and on top of that newer designs like the class 700 don’t exactly provide encouragement. So car it is, sadly.