Hertford Loop debate in Parliament

[philjo]

There was a debate in Westminster Hall discussing the Hertford Loop on Tuesday - including discussion on the timetables, the 313s and punctuality.

Transcript on the Hansard site - far too much text to quote on here.
it starts half way down - 2:30pm column 225WH - then continues on the next section.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmhansrd/cm140128/halltext/140128h0001.htm

There are some strange comments from some of the MPs - including one saying that FCC started running all 40 refurbished 365s this week!

 

[Be3G]

Very interesting… until we get to the point where Robert Goodwill starts giving ‘answers’ which are really just non-committal fluff.

 

[rdwarr]

There are some strange comments from some of the MPs - including one saying that FCC started running all 40 refurbished 365s this week!

That's "our" guy, Stephen McPartland. From earlier in that paragraph:

I am the chairman and co-founder of the Stevenage and Knebworth rail user group, which is why I know so much about class 365 and 313 carriages.

To be fair, he knows more about "365 carriages" than he does anything else...

 

[MK Tom]

I've never understood why more use isn't made of this line to relieve the Welwyn Viaduct congestion. Sending some local FCC services this way would free up capacity there and provide Hertford itself with better links to the north.

 

[jopsuk]

Speed. it's a slow slow route. It would add significantly to the time taken between Alexandra Palace and Stevenage for trains that don't stop at stations enroute, and for those that do you'd, um, be taking away service from those stations. South of Stevenage services are generally either all/most stops or fast. A stop at hertford isn't going to please Welwyn North passengers.

 

[Aictos]

Speed. it's a slow slow route. It would add significantly to the time taken between Alexandra Palace and Stevenage for trains that don't stop at stations enroute, and for those that do you'd, um, be taking away service from those stations. South of Stevenage services are generally either all/most stops or fast. A stop at hertford isn't going to please Welwyn North passengers.

That's true but with careful planning, a hourly though service could be added even if it only stopped at Hertford/Gordon Hill

seriously though on Saturday's the timetable should look something like this:

xx:08 to Stevenage (not changing)
xx:14 to Kings Cross/Moorgate (starting from Stevenage)
xx:37 extended to Stevenage and restarts the xx:14 from there
xx:44 to Kings Cross/Moorgate (not changing)

So basically, there would be no terminators on a Saturday as all services would run though to Stevenage.

And at night the existing 23:39 terminator at Hertford would form a passenger service to Kings Cross departing Hertford at 00:14 but as a semi fast service calling the same stations as the 04:24 does in the morning.

I see the Stevenage MP is talking absolute rubbish, FCC serving Liverpool Street and Payment Protection Officers :roll:

 

[jopsuk]

But the suggestion wasn't "add more loop services to Stevenage", it was "use the loop to relieve the congestion at the Digswell viaduct"

 

[al green]

That's "our" guy, Stephen McPartland. From earlier in that paragraph:

To be fair, he knows more about "365 carriages" than he does anything else...

He is staggeringly ignorant, even by the standard of MPs. He claimed that Stevenage and Leeds each have 4m passenger movements per year. He is right about Stevenage but Leeds has 24m pa. Only out by a factor 6!

 

[Aictos]

But the suggestion wasn't "add more loop services to Stevenage", it was "use the loop to relieve the congestion at the Digswell viaduct"

One stop ain't going to make THAT much of a impact especially if they time it right

He is staggeringly ignorant, even by the standard of MPs. He claimed that Stevenage and Leeds each have 4m passenger movements per year. He is right about Stevenage but Leeds has 24m pa. Only out by a factor 6!

I thought the sums didn't add up with that comment about Leeds and Stevenage....

 

[MK Tom]

But the suggestion wasn't "add more loop services to Stevenage", it was "use the loop to relieve the congestion at the Digswell viaduct"

Not sure if you mean my suggestion or something in the report, but I was suggesting both relieving the viaduct and adding through services from Hertford to places north of Stevenage. Basically sending one Peterborough or Cambridge stopper per hour via Hertford.

 

[bramling]

Not sure if you mean my suggestion or something in the report, but I was suggesting both relieving the viaduct and adding through services from Hertford to places north of Stevenage. Basically sending one Peterborough or Cambridge stopper per hour via Hertford.

Not so sure about diverting one of the existing services, but I'd love to see an additional off-peak Letchworth-Hitchin-Stevenage-Watton at Stone-Hertford North-Finsbury Park-King's Cross service.

Having said that, off-peak journey times for the semi-fast services (i.e. those running fast from Stevenage to FP) have generally increased in recent years, seemingly largely due to the increased number of East Coast, HT and GC trains. In the late 1990s, Hitchin to KX was generally achieved in about 28 minutes off-peak, with trains normally using the fast lines south of Hitchin. Nowadays, especially M-F, many off-peak trains generally take up to 34 minutes, almost always using the slow lines between Hitchin and Woolmer Green, and often coming to a stand at Woolmer Green Junction to allow another service to pass. Note these are 'real world' timings, not necessarily what the timetable shows. I wonder if there would be scope to look at one of these services going via Hertford. In reality, with a clear run, journey time is almost the same as a typical run via WGC, and the availability of the extra slow line between Wood Green and Finsbury Park must also help the case. I don't see there being any chance in peak times though as the Hertford North line sees a considerably increased service, there simply wouldn't be the opportunity to find a decent path, and even if it could be found it would only take a small amount of late running to completely mess things up.
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One stop ain't going to make THAT much of a impact especially if they time it right



I thought the sums didn't add up with that comment about Leeds and Stevenage....

The whole document is a golden example of why politicians should be kept away from any decisions associated with railway operations!

 

[PG]

The whole document is a golden example of why politicians should be kept away from any decisions associated with railway operations!

Yes - if only politicians could keep from attempting to meddle with things they patently know very little about

Its frankly astonishing in a session to do with railways, which presumably the MPs knew about in advance, that several times they keep mentioning that since NR are responsible for about 67% of the delays that there ought to be some method for NR to compensate FCC (so that FCC can in turn compensate passengers).
IIRC privatisation occurred nearly 20 years ago so they ought to have some idea that all delays are attributed and compensation is paid.