Heritage railway potential

[nferguso]

You can accuse me of being biased if you like (I am), but if we're looking for lines with potential, is it also worth asking which of these schemes might actually happen in our lifetime?

We are four months from completing the Ecclesbourne Valley Railway to Wirksworth. We will have a southern terminus at Duffield with a cross-platform interchange to main line services and our services will connect with them and allow through tickets from the national network. The line is just under ten miles long, has its own branch line (twig?) to Ravenstor (up a 1 in 30 incline) and travels through open, unspoilt countryside. We have even cleared the lineside vegetation with the result that trains will not have to run through a 'green tunnel'.

Wirksworth is virtually untapped as a rail destination. The station is right by the town centre (slight walk uphill but there's at least one decent pub on the way) and the town itself is right on the boundary of the Peak District National Park. It's also a very attractive place to visit with plenty to see and do.

We are offering steam and heritage diesel services and none of this is some vague 'maybe five years in the future' thing : we're doing the detailed preparatory work now and will be up and running by Easter.

 

[jamiepatel12]

i meant to the national rail station at matlock
i believe they have already started work on the extension between riverside and matlock

 

[nferguso]

i believe they have already started work on the extension between riverside and matlock

Yes they have and it would be interesting to learn their planned completion date. Perhaps a representative of Peak Rail would like to contribute to this thread?

Once Peak Rail begin operating into Matlock, it opens-up some very interesting travel opportunities in the Derbyshire Dales. For example, how about a Wirksworth to Rowsley rover ticket?

 

[Mvann]

There is a piece in heritage railway that came out yesterday about the Matlock reconnection.

 

[PinzaC55]

You can accuse me of being biased if you like (I am), but if we're looking for lines with potential, is it also worth asking which of these schemes might actually happen in our lifetime?

We are four months from completing the Ecclesbourne Valley Railway to Wirksworth. We will have a southern terminus at Duffield with a cross-platform interchange to main line services and our services will connect with them and allow through tickets from the national network. The line is just under ten miles long, has its own branch line (twig?) to Ravenstor (up a 1 in 30 incline) and travels through open, unspoilt countryside. We have even cleared the lineside vegetation with the result that trains will not have to run through a 'green tunnel'.

Wirksworth is virtually untapped as a rail destination. The station is right by the town centre (slight walk uphill but there's at least one decent pub on the way) and the town itself is right on the boundary of the Peak District National Park. It's also a very attractive place to visit with plenty to see and do.

We are offering steam and heritage diesel services and none of this is some vague 'maybe five years in the future' thing : we're doing the detailed preparatory work now and will be up and running by Easter.

Your line started with the track intact, so it had a slight advantage. I mentioned Maldon to Witham but it was simply "off the top of my head". My own pet project, the Yorkshire Wolds Railway, has significant hurdles to overcome but we have made startling progress behind the scenes in just 2 years and it will start to become a physical reality next year.

 

[nferguso]

Your line started with the track intact, so it had a slight advantage.

That’s exactly my point. Our ‘easy’ restoration has taken a decade to come to fruition (if you ignore the seven years trying to get things organised before) at a cost of £1.75m and around 400,000 hours of hugely motivated volunteer effort. If we halve those hours for mechanisation and apply a typical hourly rate of £50 for construction workers (probably low considering I’m not applying specialist rates for the rail industry), that comes to £11.75m to get it done at market rates.

And that’s for a ‘slam-dunk’ with, theoretically, everything in place. Now, I don’t mean to say that no other project deserves to go ahead, indeed, and the Yorkshire Wolds Railway is a good example of a project that deserves to succeed but I just wanted to try and inject a little sense of reality into the whole discussion. The question asked was one of heritage lines with potential and a big discount factor against the potential appeal of any line is the cost of restoration.

Neil

 

[PinzaC55]

That’s exactly my point. Our ‘easy’ restoration has taken a decade to come to fruition (if you ignore the seven years trying to get things organised before) at a cost of £1.75m and around 400,000 hours of hugely motivated volunteer effort. If we halve those hours for mechanisation and apply a typical hourly rate of £50 for construction workers (probably low considering I’m not applying specialist rates for the rail industry), that comes to £11.75m to get it done at market rates.

And that’s for a ‘slam-dunk’ with, theoretically, everything in place. Now, I don’t mean to say that no other project deserves to go ahead, indeed, and the Yorkshire Wolds Railway is a good example of a project that deserves to succeed but I just wanted to try and inject a little sense of reality into the whole discussion. The question asked was one of heritage lines with potential and a big discount factor against the potential appeal of any line is the cost of restoration.

Neil

Yes and don't think for a minute that I am trying to diss your project. However in your case I think I am right in saying that the line had not been used for many years and you had to "retro engineer" it in other words working with what you already had? In the case of the YWR we will start with a virgin site and our track will be "new" and therefore in good condition from the get go.
I used to volunteer on Peak Rail from 1988 to 1991 and the feeling of jubilation when the first train crossed the road at Darley Dale was incredible. As a new railway you will either have to compete or co-operate with the now well established Peak Rail and the Crich Tramway Museum.
In our case the only local competition will be the NYMR. We've experienced an avalanche of criticism from a small but determined hard core of NYMR supporters but it has, if anything merely strengthened our resolve to be successful.

 

[nferguso]

Yes and don't think for a minute that I am trying to diss your project.

No, I don’t think you’re dissing our project for one minute in fact I think we might be violently agreeing! Just don’t lose sight of the massive effort we have had to invest to restore our line. Take a look at this brochure which explains just what we have had to do in the past few months to finish the line and look especially at the money we’ve had to spend: http://www.e-v-r.com/What-we-have-to-do.pdf (1.9Mb).

Our relationship with other lines is an interesting subject. I don’t see Peak Rail, Crich or any other line in the locality as anything other than collaborators in the process of promoting private railways in the area.. The real competition is other attractions such as stately homes, garden centres and amusement parks: if you hark back to the 1970s, the ‘Great Little Trains of Wales’ campaign marketed all the narrow gauge lines in North Wales as one entity and it’s a testament to that campaign that the lines are still known collectively by that title.

We are blessed with high quality lines in this area, from Peak Rail in the north to the GCR in the south and the Churnet Valley to the west. This concentration tends to bring in visitors from outside the area who wish to stay nearby and ‘bash’ several lines over a weekend. That way, we all win, not to mention local hoteliers, restauraunt owners, publicans and shopkeepers. I am sure the same could apply to North Yorkshire where visitors will appreciate the contrast between an established line such as the NYMR and a fresh contender such as your goodselves.

The criticism we can all do without but have to endure. Whether it’s the forces of reaction, the ‘seen it all before’ brigade or the just plain frightened / jealous, all we can do is run a professional project and disprove the naysayers. Going back to my original point, new projects do need to face the scrutiny of proper analysis and there are quite a few plans that, attractive as they may be, will not stand the litmus test of how they can pay for themselves but well-planned and executed schemes can still thrive. And long may they do so!

Neil

 

[YorkshireBear]

Yes and don't think for a minute that I am trying to diss your project. However in your case I think I am right in saying that the line had not been used for many years and you had to "retro engineer" it in other words working with what you already had? In the case of the YWR we will start with a virgin site and our track will be "new" and therefore in good condition from the get go.
I used to volunteer on Peak Rail from 1988 to 1991 and the feeling of jubilation when the first train crossed the road at Darley Dale was incredible. As a new railway you will either have to compete or co-operate with the now well established Peak Rail and the Crich Tramway Museum.
In our case the only local competition will be the NYMR. We've experienced an avalanche of criticism from a small but determined hard core of NYMR supporters but it has, if anything merely strengthened our resolve to be successful.

why would they have a problem with you... :/

 

[PinzaC55]

I think it's the "Big Dog" mentality combined with the fact that the NYMR has been going for over 40 years and many of it's volunteers have spent most of their adult lives there so it is, in a sense, "their life".With the exception of the Derwent Valley Railway and until the opening of the Wensleydale Railway they've had pretty much total dominion over a vast area of Yorkshire. Geographically speaking we will be central to many large towns and cities - notably Hull - and it's inevitable that, provided we do it "right" we'll tap into a large pool of volunteer labour and passengers, particularly from Hull. It's also inevitable that we'll be tempting to some of their volunteers who would rather contribute to "building a line from the ground up" than merely working on a long established line.For me this is in fact the reason why I never wanted to volunteer for the NYMR.
They also seem to think that we have no idea what is involved in rebuilding a railway whereas I , for one, have seen the errors made on the three lines I have volunteered on and will be vocal if I see the same mistakes being made on the YWR! :roll:

 

[lancastrian]

Well, most of the ones that I would have mentioned have been, including the Embsay & Bolton Abbey extension into Skipton. But I supprised that two obvious ones have not been.

First of all in my local area the possible extension of the East lancashire Railway from Heywood to Castleton, with interchange with the Calder Valley line.

Second, The extention of the Swanage Railway from Norton to Wareham, that has good portential as well.

Other longer term ones are the Mid Norfolk from Dereham through County School to Fakenham, I think that they own most of the trackbed.

To be very honest the extension that I really want to see is that of the Llangollen Railway, from both ends. From Llangollen to Raubon and from Corwen to Bala. I have a very selfish reason for this, I holiday in that area often and it would be great to be able to reach it by train.

 

[PinzaC55]

I walked the Llangollen line in late 1982 http://www.flickr.com/photos/pinzac55/3645981275/ and there were major bridges missing at Acrefair. I think extension to Ruabon was mooted at the time (my reason for walking the line) but it has been more or less forgotten about now.

 

[paul1609]

You can accuse me of being biased if you like (I am), but if we're looking for lines with potential, is it also worth asking which of these schemes might actually happen in our lifetime?

I'd like to think that the extension of the K &ESR back to Robertsbridge will happen in my lifetime. We've extended the line back to Junction Road with a special Junction Road weekend scheduled for this March, Design work is underway for the level crossings that will take us the remaining 2 1/2 miles to the national network.

 

[nferguso]

I'd like to think that the extension of the K &ESR back to Robertsbridge will happen in my lifetime. We've extended the line back to Junction Road with a special Junction Road weekend scheduled for this March, Design work is underway for the level crossings that will take us the remaining 2 1/2 miles to the national network.

Brilliant: a realistiic distance and a connection with the national network to boot!

Good luck with the special weekend in March: when exactly is it and is there a link with details?

 

[PinzaC55]

I'd like to think that the extension of the K &ESR back to Robertsbridge will happen in my lifetime. We've extended the line back to Junction Road with a special Junction Road weekend scheduled for this March, Design work is underway for the level crossings that will take us the remaining 2 1/2 miles to the national network.

Excellent news. I walked Robertsbridge to Bodiam in May 1979 and its amazing to think trains will return. I just hope you can somehow convince the powers that be of the idea of crossing the road at Junction Road.

 

[paul1609]

Brilliant: a realistiic distance and a connection with the national network to boot!

Good luck with the special weekend in March: when exactly is it and is there a link with details?

It's on March 19/20 th, details are still to be confirmed at present but will appear here in due course: http://kesr.org.uk/special-events/details/77-junction-road-weekend.html

 

[Wikipedia]

The Eden Valley Railway has got 3.8 miles from its current limit of operation to its operational goal of Appleby East Station. This in total is roughly five miles of track from Warcop Station to Appleby East. This means that this railway could be running again in our life times. Also Appleby Station is nearby and the railway is connected to the Main Line through Network Rails Belgravia Yard.

 

[nferguso]

The Eden Valley Railway has got 3.8 miles from its current limit of operation to its operational goal of Appleby East Station. This in total is roughly five miles of track from Warcop Station to Appleby East. This means that this railway could be running again in our life times. Also Appleby Station is nearby and the railway is connected to the Main Line through Network Rails Belgravia Yard.

Ah - the EVR's twin!

Sounds a good one to me: I recall Appleby East station is pretty intact and Appleby itself is a good destination in its own right.

The main line connection has to be a bonus too.

 

[Wikipedia]

Ah - the EVR's twin!

Sounds a good one to me: I recall Appleby East station is pretty intact and Appleby itself is a good destination in its own right.

The main line connection has to be a bonus too.

Yeah the station is intact but it is a private dwelling now so we can't use it if we get there. First obstacle is the fact that susTRANS own part of the railway that we want but we are slowly getting it back!!

 

[PinzaC55]

Yeah the station is intact but it is a private dwelling now so we can't use it if we get there. First obstacle is the fact that susTRANS own part of the railway that we want but we are slowly getting it back!!

How is my signalbox getting on?