Helpful advice required please

[elgin eagle]

Hi, I've just joined the forum after many months reading it as a guest,

My situation is this: Back in June I applied for a trainee train driver position with First Scotrail at Inverness. I managed to pass the 1st set of psychometric tests, depot interview and then structured interview and 2nd set of tests. I've been told by HR at Scotrail that I am 9th in line, preference order for post at Inverness. However the trainee drivers course scheduled for October has not yet been signed off and approved yet, and the number of positions on the course is also unknown at the moment. Nothing can be done further until these decisions happen. Nothing is expected to happen imminently. I still have the final hurdle of the medical to go as well.

I am just coming to the end of a 12 year contract with the RAF, my last day of duty was yesterday and I can legally start work with a new employer from next month which would have worked out perfectly. I have the option to re-sign for a further 10 years, but once i do that I have to give 12 months notice to leave, as opposed to a month if I was in a normal job. Whilst I like my current job, I really want to become a train driver but am realistic enough to know that 12 months notice is far too unworkable for a new employer. On the other hand I do not want to burn my bridges with the RAF and leave my family without an income. In an ideal world I would have an offer of employment, but this delay has really given me a dilemma. It is one of the few times when I've really wanted to be in a job where you only need to give a months notice!

I've explained my situation to HR at Scotrail, they have been helpful and have told me as much as they can, the first course at inverness may take 2 people or may take maybe as many as 9 but at the moment the decision is delayed for perhaps as long as 2 months. Unfortunately I have to give the RAF a decision within the next two weeks. There is no option to sign a short term contract with them, its 10 years or nothing. If I sign it I will be 52 when I leave, and my chances of becoming of driver at 52 will be next to zero.

Sorry for boring everyone, I was hoping someone with a better knowledge of the workings of a TOC could advise me of the best course of action in a situation like this. Many thanks.

 

[Greenback]

I doubt even someone with knowledge of a TOC's workings could advise you on what to do. It is a decision you must make according to your own values commitments and other circumstances, each of which will vary from individual to individual.

 

[elgin eagle]

Thanks. How big in terms of numbers are trainee train drivers courses generally? Perhaps if i have a better idea of the odds that will make the decision a little easier. I'm reluctant to leave a secure job especially in the current climate, without a concrete offer of employment from elsewhere.

 

[Greenback]

From what I've heard, it's a bit like how long is a piece of string. It depends on the TOC, how many drivers they think they will need and why. For example, XC might see that they have 10 drivers coming up for retirement, but from 5 different depots. They may decide to run two courses of five each at different times of the year and at different locations, as this might better meet their recruitment needs.

There may also be the possibility of additional services, which would require additional drivers in addiiton to those needed to replace staff leaving.

One thing is certain, there isn't a great deal of recruitment about for drivers at the present time. You may want to bear this mind when making your decision.

 

[elgin eagle]

Ah, I thought the courses were larger than that.

Its a difficult decision, but having got so near I'm reluctant to throw in the towel, especially with so few drivers jobs around.

Maybe the 2 month delay might become 2 weeks and save me making the decision, I can always hope

 

[O L Leigh]

I sympathise with your situation but, like Greenback, don't really know what to suggest. However, for what it's worth, these are my thoughts.

While the choice between re-signing with the RAF and going driving for ScotRail seems like the only choice, taking Option A could be burning your bridges completely. 52 isn't too old to go driving, but you've no guarantees that there will be any vacancies in 10 years time or that you will pass the psychometric test and interviews a second time. It strikes me that you position is simply one of having to wait for a place to come up on a course. If you've been given a date for the medical then you're in good shape because they don't usually pay out for one unless there's an offer coming. If not, you might just want to check with them.

The problem is the waiting. I don't know how big Inverness depot is, but I imagine that it isn't particularly large. So unless ScotRail are recruiting in order to expand the depot, being 9th in line puts you quite some way down the list. The problem is that we just don't know. I wonder if it might be worth making contact with the depot manager and seeing if there is any chance you could pop in and have a chat and this and that, not being too open about your reasons, but just to get a feel for the place and the sort of work they do. You might be able to pick up on what's going on. The worst they can do is say "no", but it doesn't hurt to ask.

My inclination is that if this is what you want to do then you're in the best position now and deciding to turn it down may be a cause for regret later. I know that Elgin isn't exactly bursting with jobs, but if you're just waiting for ScotRail to find you a berth would it be possible to get some job (any job) just for the interim? I know you have financial commitments and need to make sure that the numbers balance, but perhaps you need to consider doing whatever you need to get to where you want to be.

Whatever happens, the best of luck.

O L Leigh

 

[Greenback]

Soem courses have been bigger than that. They tend to be for more intensively served, commuter type depots and TOC's.

In my area, ATW have done very little recruiting for traincrew at all recently. When they do, it has been only for alimited number of vacancies, and from what I hear it;s the same in most places.

Good luck with whatever you decide. I think I would stay put in the current economic climate, though!

 

[elgin eagle]

Yes i think before signing on I will try to obtain if i am 'through' as it were, and just in line for a course at some point in the future, or whether I am borderline being so far down the list. I haven't been invited for a medical yet, so I might try to find out about that at the same time.

I think part of the problem might be that they don't have all the information yet themselves, so its quite tricky. Also I don't want to appear too 'pushy'. Ive already spoken to hr and exchanged a few emails. Having been out of the job market for 12 years I'm a little rusty in the ways of job applications and the ways of dealing with recruitment people.

I'm more than happy to find a temporary job if it is simply a case of waiting for a course to start though. Many thanks for the advice guys, this is much appreciated.

 

[Greenback]

There is often a discrepancy in all organisation between what the front line needs and what the finance section believes it needs! There's also often a delay in getting recruitment organised - some TOC's like to have a 'pool' of successful candidates ready who can then be started at very short notice!

 

[elgin eagle]

I see. I suppose they like to have numbers in case some fail the medical or change their minds or circumstances. I've emailed the hr department anyway to seek some clarification as to whether I'm through into that 'pool' or not. That should make my decision easier as to whether to leave or not. I just don't want to throw away the chance of a decent pension without the security of a job offer.

 

[CarterUSM]

Hi elgin eagle, you're looking at a class of 8-10 people max, and it would be pretty unlikely the trainees would be all for Inverness. O L Leighs advice is golden and worth a try at least.

 

[Greenback]

Again, not always Elgin. There are costs associated with recruiting and it;s unlikely any company would recruit unless they had a need. What I have heard of, though, is TIC's being unsure how many vacancies they may have in six months tiome, and advertising for the maximum number. In the event that they don't need that many, maybe due to fully trained drivers being available from FOC's, then some of those who pass will obviously not be needed unless some people drop out of the course once it begins. That cna happen of course, but it's all ifs and buts really.

 

[elgin eagle]

yeah absolutely. I have to hope for something concrete in the next 2 weeks, I really don't want to give up on my dream, I know it will be something I will bitterly regret when I'm stuck in the Falklands for another 4 months.

If it really is just a case of waiting for a course or 2 until I am top of the list then that's definitely the way forward. If the courses are for 8-10 people at a time, then looking at the sizes of the depots I'm guessing i'd be looking at the 2nd, 3rd or even 4th course. I'm not sure how often they run them but maybe I could push out the other 10 years while I wait

Nothing is ever simple that's for sure. I have a telephone interview for Heathrow Express tomorrow for a customer services representative position. Its not driving but may offer a way in later on. Maybe having passed the tests with First already will help, at the moment if either offer me a contract within 2 weeks I'll probably go with them for the security and possibility of driving in the future.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Hi CarterUSM, 24 minutes from Tulse Hill! I see you are based in North Britain, are you near Elgin at all?

 

[CarterUSM]

No, central belt mate, though i'm pretty familiar with elgin, i used to have family there. I don't envy your position! It must be murder for you. I don't envy you stuck in the Falklands either!

 

[elgin eagle]

Its the hardest choice i've ever had to make mate. I know I can give the railway 25 years health permitting, but if i come out at 52 it will be hard to find anything decent. On the flipside I would get 8k a year in pension from the day i leave.

Most of my family have lived in Elgin for about 15 years, but I was only based there for 2 years. I used to like Carter USM, they support the same team as me too.

 

[CarterUSM]

Aye, i love Carter right enough, no gigs this year by the looks of it though. Elgin is a lovely town though, i can think of worse places to stay! You a palace fan then? I know jim bob follws them, not sure about fruity though, ihe is daft on cycling though.

 

[elgin eagle]

Yeah Palace mate, but didn't want to admit that in case the quality of advice went down
Personally I'd be happy settling in Elgin, although becoming a driver anywhere is my top priority. It would be easier getting to matches if i was with HEX though

 

[CarterUSM]

Elgin? Worst senior team in Scotland! Seriously though, it is a hard decision to make job wise, let us know what you do, i hope the inverness position comes off.

 

[elgin eagle]

Cheers mate, I'll let you know if i hear back from them in time.

 

[elgin eagle]

Have heard back from scotrail now, the decision on when to run the course has been delayed till the end of the year/start of next year.

So after some deliberation I've decided to take the scary and difficult decision not to renew my contract with the RAF and chase my dream to become a train driver instead. Due to the long notice period I would have to give to any toc it would have just been too tricky to get done otherwise. I just hope its the right decision to make to be happy in the long term, one thing its certainly comforting to know there will be no more deployments to afghanistan or the falklands

If anyone hears of any other possible openings I would be very grateful, just in case the scotrail one doesn't come off.

 

[CarterUSM]

That is a brave decision right enough! All going well it will be the correct one. There is no need to tell you to keep your eyes peeled i'm sure either! I'll definitely keep you informed of any openings i hear of for sure.

 

[elgin eagle]

thanks mate i really appreciate it, its probably too late to change my mind now too, am having serious second thoughts already, but just going to apply for everything and hope for the best.

 

[eddier73]

Hi EE, Have you heard anything further from Scotrail yet? I also received the letter telling me that the jobs were on hold but have tried twice now to get an update but they haven't responded. I have a good friend who works up here but he hasn't heard any further news.

Cheers
Eddie

 

[elgin eagle]

Nothing either mate, I heard a rumour of 4 classes of 8 trainees each in the new year, but nothing from hr yet.

 

[Corrado]

It seems that you are willing to travel to get a driver job so obviously this increases your chances. The chance of getting Inverness seems small but they might offer you elsewhere in Scotland, considering that you are all but medically through.

As you're probably well aware, plenty of jobs came up recently on internal vacancies. Maybe they will offer you one of these if you're willing to relocate? If you are, and you haven't done so already you could let HR know that you'll go to any depot just to work for FSR, I'm sure they'll love that.

You made a brave decision to leave a secure job, I would let them know that, too. Use everything you possibly can to land the role, you're nearly there!

Good luck.

 

[elgin eagle]

Thanks mate, it was a bit of a gamble. I'm working again now so at least the bills are being paid. Hopefully a drivers job isn't too far away.