Help with WMR fare evasion

[SadTrainTravel]

Hi Forum,

I'm looking for some help after an idiotic attempt to get an extra day out of my flexi-season ticket this week. On Monday I travelled from Northampton to Euston for work. I had a flexi-season ticket for February as I calculated that it would cover my requirements, but I found that I would be short by one day. In the morning, I travelled early, sometime around 6 am, and the barriers at my local station were open, I was not checked on the train and there were no barriers at Euston. On my way home from Euston, I purchased an additional ticket from Milton Keynes, as I got there, with the plan to use this ticket to leave the station in Northampton, and thus save a day on my flexi-season ticket.

I have only been commuting since December, following securing a new job after being made redundant and being out of work for six months. During this time, I'd lost my apartment and have had to move back into my parents' spare-room in my 30's (in no way is this going to be used as an excuse, I've read other threads, so won't be looking to do any form of sob story), I'm just providing some background to the forum as to why I made this stupid decision, I've really been financially struggling. The idea was thought up in a total moment of ill-thaughtout desperation and irresponsible madness.

A team of rail staff boarded the train and checked tickets, I didn't know who these people were, but after reading other posters, I believed they were revenue protection officers, my ticket was scanned and I was questioned on how I managed to board the train, as the ticket was purchased just as the train departed, which would have not let me through the barriers. At this point I said I was in a rush, panicking and charging my phone and was let through after advising I was purchasing a ticket on my phone. At this point, I was cautioned. I provided my ID, and name and advised I had a flexi-season ticket and provided details of other journeys in my WMR app but kept to my story, which was of course was not true. I did say I was willing to use my season ticket, but the officer said no.

I kept to my version mainly due to absolute panic, and I was extremely embarrassed with this incident taking place on a very overcrowded train. I was asked to sign my initials on a tablet and the train staff said it was what I believe was an ML11? or something similar sounding. She did mention that I would receive a letter from WMR and I would likley have a court summons.

I've felt physically sick since the incident, have been obsessing over it ever since and have been trawling the forums for similar incidents. I'm certain this is a case of fare evasion. I'm looking for some advice on what I should do when this letter comes. To clarify, as requested by users in similar threads, this is my first time doing something like this. My account only consists of two fully paid monthly season tickets one flexi-ticket, and then the ticket I stupidly tried to use this week. I have never done this before.

I'm just hoping you can help prepare me for eventualities, I do struggle slightly with understanding content and detail in general situations, so I'm under the impression that when this letter comes, I need to apologise (which I genuinely will, as I wasn't aware of the severity of what I was doing), and explain the true version of events with an offer to repay what I have essentially gained plus any admin fees etc. - I feel like I've waffled writing this, so I am petrified that I'll write a letter of apology and be dismissed and sent straight to court. In the last few months, I've finally started to turn my life around, I'm now terrified I've destroyed all hope, will lose my job and not be able to get a mortgage in the next two years.

I would appreciate any help and advice and will update you with any further developments.

Thanks,

A very sorry commuter.

(Edited because I hit post too early.)

 

[Bletchleyite]

A recommendation - bin the flexi season and get a Network Railcard, and buy a single in and a discounted single back. This is cheaper per day than a flexi season and you can use it on any number of days you wish.

As for your being caught, was it a Penalty Fare or were you told you'd receive a letter? If the latter you will need to wait to receive it, then post a copy here with name etc redacted and we can advise further.

 

[SadTrainTravel]

A recommendation - bin the flexi season and get a Network Railcard, and buy a single in and a discounted single back. This is cheaper per day than a flexi season and you can use it on any number of days you wish.

As for your being caught, was it a Penalty Fare or were you told you'd receive a letter? If the latter you will need to wait to receive it, then post a copy here with name etc redacted and we can advise further.

Hi,

Thanks for your message, I did actually buy a Network Railcard but then read the T&C and was under the impression it couldn't be used at all, so haven't used it. I will consider using this in the future as you have suggested, but as I've said in my previous post, I struggle with understanding things, and I'm quite scared ensuring I have the right tickets going forward.

In terms of your 2nd question, I was told I would be awaiting a letter, she didn't explain anything, and I didn't understand what the process was, I've only just started to work things out after reading posts on this forum, i'm not a seasoned traveller by any stretch.

I have read this letter can take up to six months to arrive, is this usually the case with WMR? I've probably slept 3-4 hours in the last two days

 

[AlastairFraser]

I have read this letter can take up to six months to arrive, is this usually the case with WMR? I've probably slept 3-4 hours in the last two days

6 months is the time limit for railway companies to proceed with the prosecution I believe. Usually no more than 2 months, but it depends how busy the prosecution department is.

 

[30907]

WMR will very likely check your purchase history for evidence of similar activity. They may suspect that you had travelled from further south, but in any case they will be able to claim that you boarded without a valid ticket, which is a Byelaw offence.

Chances are that this will end up with an "administrative settlement" of £100+ on top of a new Anytime Single fare, but you will need to engage with the process. Please ask for more advice when the letter arrives (and if you move back out, make sure your post gets forwarded!)

 

[Haywain]

I'm certain this is a case of fare evasion.

There is no doubt at all that you were attempting to evade paying the fare.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

It sounds as though you've already done a fair bit of research on other threads of a similar nature. West Midlands Trains will write to you in the next few weeks saying that they have received a report and have sufficient evidence to prosecute in the magistrates court but inviting you to give your version of events before they decide how to proceed.

If you co-operate with them and send them a short, concise letter then there's a good chance of being offered an out of court settlement. Expect this to cost around £150 plus the outstanding fare at the Anytime rate.

When the letter arrives post up a copy of it in this thread (but do redact any person details and case reference numbers) along with your draft reply and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

To add to what @Bletchleyite has said about fares going forward. A flex-season from Northampton to Euston is £506.10 which works out at £63.26 per journey.
Buy a full price Anytime Day Single from Northampton to Euston to travel to London in the morning. This costs £41.70
In the evening use your Network Railcard to buy a Euston to Northampton Off Peak Day Single costing £20.65. Total cost £62.35 - and the tickets can be purchased on the day of travel, as needed. Note that in this case the off peak ticket is valid to use in the Evening Peak from Euston.

 

[MotCO]

WMR will very likely check your purchase history for evidence of similar activity. They may suspect that you had travelled from further south, but in any case they will be able to claim that you boarded without a valid ticket, which is a Byelaw offence.

To the OP: Given your season ticket was Northampton to Euston, and you were caught with a Milton Keynes to Northampton ticket, the obvious conclusion for the ticket collector is that you did in fact travel from Euston rather than MK. You may need to think how you address this in your letter, but you will need to wait to see what the letter actually states - you will not be required to incriminate yourself.

 

[SadTrainTravel]

Welcome to the forum!

It sounds as though you've already done a fair bit of research on other threads of a similar nature. West Midlands Trains will write to you in the next few weeks saying that they have received a report and have sufficient evidence to prosecute in the magistrates court but inviting you to give your version of events before they decide how to proceed.

If you co-operate with them and send them a short, concise letter then there's a good chance of being offered an out of court settlement. Expect this to cost around £150 plus the outstanding fare at the Anytime rate.

When the letter arrives post up a copy of it in this thread (but do redact any person details and case reference numbers) along with your draft reply and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

To add to what @Bletchleyite has said about fares going forward. A flex-season from Northampton to Euston is £506.10 which works out at £63.26 per journey.
Buy a full price Anytime Day Single from Northampton to Euston to travel to London in the morning. This costs £41.70
In the evening use your Network Railcard to buy a Euston to Northampton Off Peak Day Single costing £20.65. Total cost £62.35 - and the tickets can be purchased on the day of travel, as needed. Note that in this case the off peak ticket is valid to use in the Evening Peak from Euston.

Hi Hadders,

Thank you and yes, a few of your threads were ones I have looked into. I'm still awaiting the letter. In future, I will look at using the advice that was provided to me by @Bletchleyite. I will await the letter and upload here.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Feb 2024 ==

To the OP: Given your season ticket was Northampton to Euston, and you were caught with a Milton Keynes to Northampton ticket, the obvious conclusion for the ticket collector is that you did in fact travel from Euston rather than MK. You may need to think how you address this in your letter, but you will need to wait to see what the letter actually states - you will not be required to incriminate yourself.

Hi MotCO,

I'm sorry, this is coming down to me struggling to understand what I'm reading again. What do you mean by 'think how you address this in your letter' and 'you will not be required to incriminate yourself'. I've read this in other forum posts but I don't understand what that means, as it usually says to apologise etc.

 

[Titfield]

To explain what "Do not incriminate yourself" is perhaps best explained by a fictitious example:

On the 14th of January 2024 a passenger travelled without a valid ticket between Bristol and Cardiff and has been been doing so 3 times a week since June 15th 2023.

If the Train Operating company asks " Did you travel without a valid ticket on the 14th of January 2024 between Bristol and Cardiff"

The passenger would answer: "Yes I did travel without a valid ticket on the 14th of January 2024 between Bristol and Cardiff".

The passenger would NOT answer: "Yes I did travel without a valid ticket on the 14th of January 2024 between Bristol and Cardiff and I have been doing this 3 times a week since the June 15th 2023.

You only have to answer the questions as put. Providing more evidence of wrong doing will almost certainly increase the amount you have to pay or may allow the TOC to decide that the matter is best dealt with by the courts and not "out of court".

However one of the "problems" is that whilst the Train Operating company is investigating or has sent you a letter and is waiting for a reply, they may check back on all your purchases (using the payment card you used) and look for any other occasions when you have or may have travelled without a valid ticket. If they find these and you have not "fessed up" when asked then almost certainly the action they take will be harsher than it may otherwise have been.

So if you had a ticket from MK to Northampton (a short journey) but your work is in London, the TOC will wonder and ask why you had a ticket from MK. The obvious conclusion (which may be wrong or right) is that you travelled from London to MK without a valid ticket and then stayed on the train to Northampton. They may conclude that you bought the ticket from MK so that you could get through the barrier at Northampton. This demonstrates intent not to pay the fare rather than it being a (genuine) mistake. So you will have to decide on the basis of what the letter says whether you have to answer this point and indeed how you will answer it.

I would suggest that:
1) you try not to panic or become overly stressed by this.
2) you are honest with yourself
3) when the letter arrives post a copy on this forum (with all identifying details obscured) with your draft reply and the forum members will provide comment and suggest improvements if needed.

These issues do not ruin lives. The TOCS are very experienced in dealing with this. Their goals are to get what is owed to them and that you do not do this again. Only persistent offenders or those who do not engage with the process end up facing the severest sanctions.

 

[MotCO]

To explain what "Do not incriminate yourself" is perhaps best explained by a fictitious example:

On the 14th of January 2024 a passenger travelled without a valid ticket between Bristol and Cardiff and has been been doing so 3 times a week since June 15th 2023.

If the Train Operating company asks " Did you travel without a valid ticket on the 14th of January 2024 between Bristol and Cardiff"

The passenger would answer: "Yes I did travel without a valid ticket on the 14th of January 2024 between Bristol and Cardiff".

The passenger would NOT answer: "Yes I did travel without a valid ticket on the 14th of January 2024 between Bristol and Cardiff and I have been doing this 3 times a week since the June 15th 2023.

You only have to answer the questions as put. Providing more evidence of wrong doing will almost certainly increase the amount you have to pay or may allow the TOC to decide that the matter is best dealt with by the courts and not "out of court".

However one of the "problems" is that whilst the Train Operating company is investigating or has sent you a letter and is waiting for a reply, they may check back on all your purchases (using the payment card you used) and look for any other occasions when you have or may have travelled without a valid ticket. If they find these and you have not "fessed up" when asked then almost certainly the action they take will be harsher than it may otherwise have been.

So if you had a ticket from MK to Northampton (a short journey) but your work is in London, the TOC will wonder and ask why you had a ticket from MK. The obvious conclusion (which may be wrong or right) is that you travelled from London to MK without a valid ticket and then stayed on the train to Northampton. They may conclude that you bought the ticket from MK so that you could get through the barrier at Northampton. This demonstrates intent not to pay the fare rather than it being a (genuine) mistake. So you will have to decide on the basis of what the letter says whether you have to answer this point and indeed how you will answer it.

I would suggest that:
1) you try not to panic or become overly stressed by this.
2) you are honest with yourself
3) when the letter arrives post a copy on this forum (with all identifying details obscured) with your draft reply and the forum members will provide comment and suggest improvements if needed.

These issues do not ruin lives. The TOCS are very experienced in dealing with this. Their goals are to get what is owed to them and that you do not do this again. Only persistent offenders or those who do not engage with the process end up facing the severest sanctions.

Thanks @Titfield - I couldn't explain it better

 

[SadTrainTravel]

To explain what "Do not incriminate yourself" is perhaps best explained by a fictitious example:

On the 14th of January 2024 a passenger travelled without a valid ticket between Bristol and Cardiff and has been been doing so 3 times a week since June 15th 2023.

If the Train Operating company asks " Did you travel without a valid ticket on the 14th of January 2024 between Bristol and Cardiff"

The passenger would answer: "Yes I did travel without a valid ticket on the 14th of January 2024 between Bristol and Cardiff".

The passenger would NOT answer: "Yes I did travel without a valid ticket on the 14th of January 2024 between Bristol and Cardiff and I have been doing this 3 times a week since the June 15th 2023.

You only have to answer the questions as put. Providing more evidence of wrong doing will almost certainly increase the amount you have to pay or may allow the TOC to decide that the matter is best dealt with by the courts and not "out of court".

However one of the "problems" is that whilst the Train Operating company is investigating or has sent you a letter and is waiting for a reply, they may check back on all your purchases (using the payment card you used) and look for any other occasions when you have or may have travelled without a valid ticket. If they find these and you have not "fessed up" when asked then almost certainly the action they take will be harsher than it may otherwise have been.

So if you had a ticket from MK to Northampton (a short journey) but your work is in London, the TOC will wonder and ask why you had a ticket from MK. The obvious conclusion (which may be wrong or right) is that you travelled from London to MK without a valid ticket and then stayed on the train to Northampton. They may conclude that you bought the ticket from MK so that you could get through the barrier at Northampton. This demonstrates intent not to pay the fare rather than it being a (genuine) mistake. So you will have to decide on the basis of what the letter says whether you have to answer this point and indeed how you will answer it.

I would suggest that:
1) you try not to panic or become overly stressed by this.
2) you are honest with yourself
3) when the letter arrives post a copy on this forum (with all identifying details obscured) with your draft reply and the forum members will provide comment and suggest improvements if needed.

These issues do not ruin lives. The TOCS are very experienced in dealing with this. Their goals are to get what is owed to them and that you do not do this again. Only persistent offenders or those who do not engage with the process end up facing the severest sanctions.

Hi All,

Firstly I am very thankful to everyone who has provided some information about the issue I have, I admit I am way over my head with this and it has been a huge wake-up call. I've received a letter which I have hopefully attached correctly here.

I may need some assistance with what I plan to return but essentially something along the following lines:

Dear Prosecutions Department,

In response to your letter dated 22nd February 2024, I would like to confirm that I am the person who was questioned by a member of your Revenue Protection Team. On Monday 19th February 2024, I travelled between London and Northampton with a flexi-season ticket which I did not present, but instead a ticket from Milton Keynes to Northampton. Following a period of extended redundancy, I was struggling with my finances after securing a new job and have had to move back home with my parents as a result. I purchased a ticket from Milton Keynes to Northampton to save an additional day's use of my flexi-ticket, as I would not have been able to afford my final journey of the month. At the time of making this irrational decision, I did not think about potential consequences and admit at the time I had poor knowledge of the true impact of what I had done.

When interviewed, I did advise incorrectly that I had travelled from Milton Keynes, when in reality I had travelled from London. This was partly due to panic about the ongoing situation, and embarrassment brought on by a very busy carriage of onlooking passengers. I am in no way proud of my actions, which were extremely ill-thought-out and done through desperation. I have never been in this situation before and certainly will not do this ever again.

During the interview, I did state that I was willing to provide my season ticket for travel also, but this was understandably declined. In light of my actions, I have continued to travel only using my season ticket and will switch to purchasing a full-month season ticket going forward to ensure all of my journeys are covered, I will purchase this on 29th February, when I next get paid. I have also taken advice about considering the use of my Network Railcard which may assist with my expenses going forward, as I was unaware that it could be used on my return journey.

Since speaking with the Revenue Protection Team, I do understand that my actions were wrong and I am now aware of the impact these cases have on the railway. I have followed this up by reading some articles by London Northwestern Railway online, and feel ashamed to be included in these statistics. It would never be my intention to purposely negatively impact the railway in such a way.

I have felt extremely scared ever since the date of the interview. Please accept my sincere apologies and reassurance that I will not repeat my mistakes. I am very keen to resolve this issue with you and would like to ask if you would accept a settlement of the outstanding fare, plus any administration fees or costs you have incurred as a result of my actions. I apologise for any inconvenience I have caused.



Does this sound okay? Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated. I'm not sure if it's worth noting that almost 50% of my salary is spent on work travel.

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi All,

Firstly I am very thankful to everyone who has provided some information about the issue I have, I admit I am way over my head with this and it has been a huge wake-up call. I've received a letter which I have hopefully attached correctly here.

I may need some assistance with what I plan to return but essentially something along the following lines:

Dear Prosecutions Department,

In response to your letter dated 22nd February 2024, I would like to confirm that I am the person who was questioned by a member of your Revenue Protection Team. On Monday 19th February 2024, I travelled between London and Northampton with a flexi-season ticket which I did not present, but instead a ticket from Milton Keynes to Northampton. Following a period of extended redundancy, I was struggling with my finances after securing a new job and have had to move back home with my parents as a result. I purchased a ticket from Milton Keynes to Northampton to save an additional day's use of my flexi-ticket, as I would not have been able to afford my final journey of the month. At the time of making this irrational decision, I did not think about potential consequences and admit at the time I had poor knowledge of the true impact of what I had done.

When interviewed, I did advise incorrectly that I had travelled from Milton Keynes, when in reality I had travelled from London. This was partly due to panic about the ongoing situation, and embarrassment brought on by a very busy carriage of onlooking passengers. I am in no way proud of my actions, which were extremely ill-thought-out and done through desperation. I have never been in this situation before and certainly will not do this ever again.

During the interview, I did state that I was willing to provide my season ticket for travel also, but this was understandably declined. In light of my actions, I have continued to travel only using my season ticket and will switch to purchasing a full-month season ticket going forward to ensure all of my journeys are covered, I will purchase this on 29th February, when I next get paid. I have also taken advice about considering the use of my Network Railcard which may assist with my expenses going forward, as I was unaware that it could be used on my return journey.

Since speaking with the Revenue Protection Team, I do understand that my actions were wrong and I am now aware of the impact these cases have on the railway. I have followed this up by reading some articles by London Northwestern Railway online, and feel ashamed to be included in these statistics. It would never be my intention to purposely negatively impact the railway in such a way.

I have felt extremely scared ever since the date of the interview. Please accept my sincere apologies and reassurance that I will not repeat my mistakes. I am very keen to resolve this issue with you and would like to ask if you would accept a settlement of the outstanding fare, plus any administration fees or costs you have incurred as a result of my actions. I apologise for any inconvenience I have caused.



Does this sound okay? Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated. I'm not sure if it's worth noting that almost 50% of my salary is spent on work travel.

This seems fine. I'd just take the very final apology out of the letter - it's best to close absolutely on a call to action (your request to settle) and end with something like "I look forward to hearing from you" making it clear that you wish for the settlement option and also indicating that you expect a further response.

 

[MotCO]

I'm not sure about your first paragraph. I just wonder if it suggests that because you were struggling with your finances, that you were planning to do it again, or had done it before. We usually advise against 'sob stories' because they have heard it all before.

In response to your letter dated 22nd February 2024, I would like to confirm that I am the person who was questioned by a member of your Revenue Protection Team. On Monday 19th February 2024, I travelled between London and Northampton with a flexi-season ticket which I did not present, but instead a ticket from Milton Keynes to Northampton. Following a period of extended redundancy, I was struggling with my finances after securing a new job and have had to move back home with my parents as a result. I purchased a ticket from Milton Keynes to Northampton to save an additional day's use of my flexi-ticket, as I would not have been able to afford my final journey of the month. At the time of making this irrational decision, I did not think about potential consequences and admit at the time I had poor knowledge of the true impact of what I had done.

Can I suggest the following redraft:

In response to your letter dated 22nd February 2024, I would like to confirm that I am the person who was questioned by a member of your Revenue Protection Team. On Monday 19th February 2024, I travelled between London and Northampton with a flexi-season ticket which I did not present, but instead presented a ticket from Milton Keynes to Northampton to save an additional day's use of my flexi-ticket. At the time of making this irrational decision, I did not think about potential consequences and admit at the time I had poor knowledge of the true impact of what I had done.

Without wishing to go off-topic, your draft letter set out the circumstances clearly, but what struck me was that you were actually carrying a valid ticket. The letter from the rail company does not indicate what they are thinking of accusing you of, but it can't be section 18.1 of the Bylaws since you had a valid ticket when you entered the train (albeit not the one you showed to the inspector), and section 18.2 you complied with when you showed the flexipass. Is this any different when, for example, someone has kept each day's tickets in his pocket and accidentally pulls out the wrong one for inspection?

18. Ticketless travel in non-compulsory ticket areas
(1) In any area not designated as a compulsory ticket area, no person shall enter
any train for the purpose of travelling on the railway unless he has with him a
valid ticket entitling him to travel.
(2) A person shall hand over his ticket for inspection and verification of validity
when asked to do so by an authorised person. - source https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a79c14b40f0b66d161ade8c/railway-byelaws.pdf

Or will it be a Section 5 Regulation of Railways Act?

5 Penalty for avoiding payment of fare.

(1)Every passenger by a railway shall, on request by an officer or servant of a railway company, either produce, and if so requested deliver up, a ticket showing that his fare is paid, or pay his fare from the place whence he started, or give the officer or servant his name and address; and in case of default shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 2 on the standard scale.

(2)If a passenger having failed either to produce, or if requested to deliver up, a ticket showing that his fare is paid, or to pay his fare, refuses or fails on request by an officer or servant of a railway company, to give his name and address, any officer of the company may detain him until he can be conveniently brought before some justice or otherwise discharged by due course of law.

(3)If any person—

(a)Travels or attempts to travel on a railway without having previously paid his fare, and with intent to avoid payment thereof; or

(b)Having paid his fare for a certain distance, knowingly and wilfully proceeds by train beyond that distance without previously paying the additional fare for the additional distance, and with intent to avoid payment thereof; or

(c)Having failed to pay his fare, gives in reply to a request by an officer of a railway company a false name or address,

he shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale, or, in the case of a second or subsequent offence, either to a fine not exceeding [F4level 3 on the standard scale], or in the discretion of the court to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months.

Source - https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/52-53/57/section/5

Again the OP could produce a valid ticket, just that he didn't at first - does this show the intent not to pay the fare?

I must stress that I am not a lawyer, and other posters will be able to correct me (and shoot me down in flames!), but I think it raises an interesting question.

 

[SadTrainTravel]

This seems fine. I'd just take the very final apology out of the letter - it's best to close absolutely on a call to action (your request to settle) and end with something like "I look forward to hearing from you" making it clear that you wish for the settlement option and also indicating that you expect a further response.

Hi @AlterEgo, thankyou - I have made these changes.

I'm not sure about your first paragraph. I just wonder if it suggests that because you were struggling with your finances, that you were planning to do it again, or had done it before. We usually advise against 'sob stories' because they have heard it all before.



Can I suggest the following redraft:

Thanks, @MotCO, I was trying to avoid sounding like a sob story giver but didn't know if I needed to provide them with details on any motivation around as to why I made the decision. I've taken your amendments on board and have taken it out.

 

[fandroid]

Again the OP could produce a valid ticket, just that he didn't at first - does this show the intent not to pay the fare

I don't think the Flexi pass was a valid ticket, because they have to be activated for each day of travel before the journey starts.

I too might be wrong though!

 

[SadTrainTravel]

I don't think the Flexi pass was a valid ticket, because they have to be activated for each day of travel before the journey starts.

I too might be wrong though!

I think you are correct @fandroid, I had not activated the ticket. This seems to be an issue with the tickets, you see people all the time activate them as they are asked for them. Possibly a flaw in the design, certainly won't be using this ticket type again however.

 

[John R]

I think you are correct @fandroid, I had not activated the ticket. This seems to be an issue with the tickets, you see people all the time activate them as they are asked for them.

If that is the case, why are people not getting pulled up for it, in the same way that purchasing a ticket after boarding is regularly spotted and acted upon?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Feb 2024 ==

Possibly a flaw in the design, certainly won't be using this ticket type again however.

Why not? If you use it properly without any intention to evade paying the correct fare then there should be no problem.

 

[SadTrainTravel]

If that is the case, why are people not getting pulled up for it, in the same way that purchasing a ticket after boarding is regularly spotted and acted upon?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Feb 2024 ==


Why not? If you use it properly without any intention to evade paying the correct fare then there should be no problem.

I imagine there probably are instances of this. If the barriers at the station are closed, people will be required to activate them to scan through, but typically, very early in the morning, the barriers are all left open, and not a single person taps their pass/ticket as they go through, even with a full team of train staff at the desk by the gates. In London, there are no gates. I see people all the time activating their tickets at the point it's requested.

I don't recall seeing any notice advising to activate tickets before travel, travel takes place, looking at the information provided:

"Flexi season allows unlimited travel on the day of activation between a named origin and destination station. They are sold in bundles of 8-day passes, which must be used within 28 days. It is only available as a digital ticket"

and;

"Flexi seasons have an overall validity of 28 days from the start date of the ticket. Each of the 8 individual day passes can be activated at any time during this period. Each day pass can only be activated once. Each day pass is valid until 04:29 on the day following activation"

I cannot recall what is on the activation screen as all of mine have now expired and I have just switched to a monthly ticket for this month as I do have some weekend travel requirements also.

In response to your question on 'why not' (and this is theoretical), as I have absolutely zero intention of ever thinking about doing this again... I'd rather have a ticket that is just activated at the point of purchase, like the standard monthly ticket, but with each of the 8 tickets expiring once the ticket passes a gate on exit following the return journey. From a user experience perspective, there doesn't need to be a reason to 'activate' a ticket, if they all in theory have a default expiration after 28 days. Removing the ability to activate a ticket would remove the ability to avoid a fair with an unactivated flexi-ticket.

 

[spag23]

but with each of the 8 tickets expiring once the ticket passes a gate on exit following the return journey.

But the end of the return journey might well be "out in the sticks" with no (or open) barrier, and no staff. So the passenger might "accidentally" forget to register that day's travel. Or the passenger could buy a ticket from the stop before, to work the barrier; but present their flexi if challenged before that stop, or if they spot a suspicious RPI at the barrier.
Hence the need for a daily "per outbound leg" activation.

 

[Haywain]

I see people all the time activating their tickets at the point it's requested.

Are these people all activating Flexi-seasons held on smartcards? I am genuinely wondering how you know what people are doing.

 

[SadTrainTravel]

Are these people all activating Flexi-seasons held on smartcards? I am genuinely wondering how you know what people are doing.

Through the mobile app, I've seen it done by others sitting next to me on a few journeys.

 

[Haywain]

Removing the ability to activate a ticket would remove the ability to avoid a fair with an unactivated flexi-ticket.

Can you explain how you think a flexi-season would work without activation?

 

[spag23]

Through the mobile app, I've seen it done by others sitting next to me on a few journeys.

I'm not familiar with this App. But assuming it's the equivalent of the paper carnets I used to sometimes use, aren't you supposed to commit (by pen or keystroke) before you board?

 

[AlterEgo]

I'd rather have a ticket that is just activated at the point of purchase, like the standard monthly ticket, but with each of the 8 tickets expiring once the ticket passes a gate on exit following the return journey.

That isn't practical at all - there are lots of ungated stations and the only thing you'd have to do to ensure a ticket wasn't used is to simply avoid a gate. Not hard at somewhere like Leighton Buzzard or Wolverton, or even Milton Keynes if you just use the wide side gate when it's busy (as they often won't scan your ticket).

 

[SadTrainTravel]

Can you explain how you think a flexi-season would work without activation?

I'm completely speculating now, as I don't know the ins and outs of the ticket system. But almost in a similar way to how a standard monthly ticket would work, where the ticket is ready, and in your app. I would see one activate button at the start of the month that would activate all 8 of the tickets in-app, which would either expire a) when an outbound and return journey was made or b) when the 28 day window has passed. The need to activate each ticket separately doesn't need to be a feature.

In terms of ungated stations etc. - I don't know the answer, maybe a tap system like TFL uses, but it's always going to come down to honesty.

 

[Haywain]

I would see one activate button at the start of the month that would activate all 8 of the tickets in-app, which would either expire a) when an outbound and return journey was made or b) when the 28 day window has passed. The need to activate each ticket separately doesn't need to be a feature.

You say the need to activate each ticket doesn't need to be a feature, but want to activate all of them. As they already have a start and expiry date, that's not necessary. Where barriers exist it is the simplest thing in the world to activate a ticket on a smartcard by simply tapping on the gate each time you wish to use a day's travel. There is only a problem where people choose not to do this, and don't get a ticket check. Your problem was trying to use something other than the flexi-season.

 

[SadTrainTravel]

You say the need to activate each ticket doesn't need to be a feature, but want to activate all of them. As they already have a start and expiry date, that's not necessary. Where barriers exist it is the simplest thing in the world to activate a ticket on a smartcard by simply tapping on the gate each time you wish to use a day's travel. There is only a problem where people choose not to do this, and don't get a ticket check. Your problem was trying to use something other than the flexi-season.

Hi, yes absolutely, the conversation has gone slightly off-topic, I'm not trying to create a defence here, I thought it'd become a discussion about the flexi-ticket.

One question, however, is what is the smartcard and how do you get one? I've only been given a photo card, which I've also never used, but have not heard of a smartcard either. All of my travel is done through the mobile app.

 

[SadTrainTravel]

Hi All,

Just an update on my situation as promised. I received a letter from ITAL who work on behalf of West Midlands Trains, the letter read as follows:

-----
Thank you for your correspondence in relation to this matter.

Ordinarily it is the policy of West Midlands Railway to prosecute all instances of fare evasion, however, on this occasion an offer of settlement has been granted to you.

A settlement of £175.00 towards our costs incurred plus £11.40 fare avoided is requested to avoid legal proceedings. Payment should be received within 14 days from the date of this letter.

To pay the balance of £186.40, please visit our website. etc. etc.
-----

I have paid the settlement and received confirmation by email so glad to be putting this matter behind me. I've taken the advice of the forum also, and have stopped purchasing a season ticket and now purchase tickets separately, using my network railcard on the way home. It makes a saving of £8.00 which is better than nothing.

In the meantime, I'll likely be forced to find work outside of London, after budgeting, I found that 43% of my monthly salary is already going to TFL and London Northwestern Railway. I have plans to move to Leicester towards the end of the year, which will mean a travel increase of £1122.90 for a monthly ticket or £898.20 for a flexi-ticket, It is just unsustainable.

Thank you to the forum for your help.

 

[Hadders]

Thanks for letting us know the outcome. This is a decent result in the circumstances.

If you create a thread in the Fares Advice & Policy section of the forum about the journeys you make for work we might be able to suggest some cheaper alternatives. It looks as though you're travellingby Underground or Bus to get to your final destination if you are paying TfL as well.