Help With Split Ticket Query Please

[Rheilfordd]

Hopefully one of the fares gurus will be able to help.

I have an advance ticket from Milton Keynes to Lancaster with MK departure at 18:41 on The ex Euston 18:10 Holyhead Virgin, changing at Crewe.

Have just been informed that I will now be working in London on the day, so am trying to coordinate the extra leg, hoping to catch the same train from Euston.

I cannot get any journey planner to show me an Euston - MK ticket for that train, although it's shown in Virgin's printed timetable and with an MK stop showing on the National Rail Journey Planner.

I assume this is due to the train having a (u) restriction, denoting pick up only at MK.

If I buy an Anytime single, London Euston - MK, am I likely to have any problem with gate line staff at Euston, boarding the train ?

Many thanks for all advice given.

Haydn.

 

[James Wake]

Just show them both parts of the ticket and it should be OK, do you have a reserved seat on the 1810 ex EUS, although it would only be reserved from Milton Keynes?

 

[SickyNicky]

Yep - it's the pick up only call at Milton Keynes (MKC) that's scuppering you.

In my experience, gateline staff are unlikely to let you board, even with a split combination. There's nothing in the NRCoC to say it's invalid, but at TrainSplit we chose not to offer such combinations to avoid confrontations like this.

Because of the gateline problem, you may be better off not risking it and taking an earlier service to MKC. Or, the first set down on the 18.10 is Nuneaton (NUN). Can you get an advance to there at a sensible price, and be doubly valid between MKC and NUN?

 

[James Wake]

If Virgin staff are likely to ignore a valid combination in conjunction with the NRCoC then perhaps you ought to contact Virgin by phone, Facebook or Twitter and ask them and get confirmation to show to the gateline staff in case of a confrontation.

 

[OwlMan]

If Virgin staff are likely to ignore a valid combination in conjunction with the NRCoC then perhaps you ought to contact Virgin by phone, Facebook or Twitter and ask them and get confirmation to show to the gateline staff in case of a confrontation.

But is it a valid combination?
A London - Milton Keynes ticket is not valid for travel from London to Milton Keynes on that train.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yep - it's the pick up only call at Milton Keynes (MKC) that's scuppering you.

In my experience, gateline staff are unlikely to let you board, even with a split combination. There's nothing in the NRCoC to say it's invalid, but at TrainSplit we chose not to offer such combinations to avoid confrontations like this.

Because of the gateline problem, you may be better off not risking it and taking an earlier service to MKC. Or, the first set down on the 18.10 is Nuneaton (NUN). Can you get an advance to there at a sensible price, and be doubly valid between MKC and NUN?

But the NRCoC also does not say that an off peak ticket is invalid for a split at peak times when the ticket itself is invalid.
Surely before you can use split tickets the tickets themselves must be valid for their appropiate journeys.

 

[James Wake]

If that is the case, either book an advance to Nuneaton to be doubly valid, or board the 1746 or 1749 London Midland services to MKC and change there for the 1841 to Crewe.

 

[Rheilfordd]

But is it a valid combination?
A London - Milton Keynes ticket is not valid for travel from London to Milton Keynes on that train.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


But the NRCoC also does not say that an off peak ticket is invalid for a split at peak times when the ticket itself is invalid.
Surely before you can use split tickets the tickets themselves must be valid for their appropiate journeys.

Ok thanks all for your replies. So a Virgin Toc specific Anytime single, London - MK combined with an MK - Lancaster advance, is not valid ?

If that's correct, I'll take an earlier train to MK.

I' d be struggling to explain the concept to a Martian though...... No, you have to go somewhere else, by a different train, to get the train you have a booked seat on......Get on it here, where it starts ? Are you completely mad ?

 

[SickyNicky]

Surely before you can use split tickets the tickets themselves must be valid for their appropiate journeys.

It can probably be argued both ways. I would argue that two tickets together form a journey, so long as the train "stops" where the tickets are split. There's no requirement to get off, so it doesn't matter that the train only "picks up", so a ticket that wouldn't be valid for a journey on its own becomes valid for a longer journey under 19a.

But I would never recommend that anyone ever try that, so whether it's technically valid or is a moot point (to me). Someone more brave than I (and who had studied the relevant documentation better than I) might like to try it though.

 

[maniacmartin]

But the NRCoC also does not say that an off peak ticket is invalid for a split at peak times when the ticket itself is invalid.
Surely before you can use split tickets the tickets themselves must be valid for their appropiate journeys.

There is precident for the opposite though. Consider condition 19C - clearly the individual tickets would not both be valid for the appropriate sections of the journey on their own. I see no reason why splits under 19B would be any different.

However as SickyNicky says, its a moot point if staff won't let you through the gates.

 

[deltic]

It is often possible to avoid the Virgin barrier staff by using realtime trains to find out what platform the service is leaving from and go down to the platform before it is announced and hence before the barrier staff are no duty.

Done this occasionally to ensure a table seat on a busy Virgin train not because I was trying to avoiding paying for my journey I hasten to add. Often see regulars doing the same in peak periods - there is always the risk the train will be re-platformed but not usual when there are no problems.

 

[Rheilfordd]

If Virgin staff are likely to ignore a valid combination in conjunction with the NRCoC then perhaps you ought to contact Virgin by phone, Facebook or Twitter and ask them and get confirmation to show to the gateline staff in case of a confrontation.

Thanks for all your suggestions. I contacted VT by email and received the following reply. I believe that confirms that I am good to go on the Holyhead train from Euston.....

I have a journey booked from Milton Keynes Central to Lancaster. The journey involves the 18:41 departure from MK with a change at Crewe. I have now been informed that I will be working in London on the day of my journey and seek to extend my ticket to allow for boarding the same train at London Euston. This is I believe, the 18:10 Holyhead departure from London Euston. If I purchase an Anytime VT single, London Euston to Milton Keynes, I assume that this would constitute an acceptable ticket combination to allow my journey to start from London Euston ?

Thank you for your assistance in this matter,


I understand that you have booked an Advance Single ticket to travel from Milton Keynes Central to Lancaster and have been informed about you will be working in London for a day due to which you have been advised to purchased an additional ticket to allow you to board the train at London Euston in order to continue your journey to Lancaster.

On checking your booking under reference number C95TKC44, I see that you have booked an Advance Single ticket for your journey. The ticket you have booked is valid to travel on the same date time mentioned on the ticket. If you are unable to travel, the ticket can be changed for the same journey to travel on a different date / time for a charge of £10 per ticket, per person which is charged across the rail indusry. As you will be working in London Euston on the day of your journey, you will need to purchase an additional from London Euston to Milton Keynes Central and then continue the journey with the ticket you have booked. I have provided below the route for your information.

Journey Leg 1: MILTON KEYNES CENTRAL ( MKC ) to CREWE ( CRE )
Depart
Arrive
Expected Duration
18:10
LONDON EUSTON
18:41
MILTON KEYNES CENTRAL
00h31
18:41
MILTON KEYNES CENTRAL
19:12
NUNEATON
00h31
19:13
NUNEATON
19:53
CREWE
00h40
19:56
CREWE
20:15
CHESTER
00h19
20:26
CHESTER
20:51
RHYL
00h25
20:53
RHYL
21:02
COLWYN BAY
00h09
21:04
COLWYN BAY
21:09
LLANDUDNO JUNCTION
00h05
21:10
LLANDUDNO JUNCTION
21:25
BANGOR (GWYNEDD)
00h15
21:27
BANGOR (GWYNEDD)
21:59
HOLYHEAD
00h32
Journey Leg 2: CREWE ( CRE ) to LANCASTER ( LAN )

 

[SickyNicky]

It seems that Virgin are saying that it's OK to split at stations that are set-down or pick-up only. However, it's possible that the person replying to your email didn't realise it's a pick-up only ayt MKC.

But your documentation should get you though the barrier. I look forward with interest to hear how this goes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It seems that Virgin are saying that it's OK to split at stations that are set-down or pick-up only. However, it's possible that the person replying to your email didn't realise it's a pick-up only ayt MKC.

But your documentation should get you though the barrier. I look forward with interest to hear how this goes.

I suspect they did not realise that, particularly as the wording suggests it has been partially automatically generated. (The "I understand that") and other parts of the wording and structure are a massive giveaway of one of those generation tools.

If the journey is crucial, and it would be disastrous for the OP to end up having to travel on a later train, possibly having to buy a new ticket and claim the cost back, I would not recommend trying this. The VT barrier staff are notorious for stopping people on valid but non-straightforward tickets - I wouldn't even risk a 19(c) split if the journey was crucial, let alone a split of possibly questionable validity.

If at all possible I would recommend travelling a bit earlier on a LM service and changing at MKC, silly though it is.

This will improve when the barriers are on all platforms assuming they just accept all tickets valid from Euston, of course.

 

[Greenback]

I don't think that whoever replied understood the real issue behind the question either. I do think that you should be allowed to travel based on what they have said, but it might not be a smooth and hassle free process