Help with not being prosecuted.

[Petty1]

Good evening.

I've been summoned to Magistrates Court at the end of this month over an unpaid fine dating back to September the 26th, 2013. I was travelling from Sellyoak (westmidlands) to Birmingham New Street.

I normally do this trip 2-3 times a week for uni. On the 26th i walked walked to the station, sat and waited for the train listing to music in my own little world. When i got off the train I realised I didn't buy a ticket. I whet to the train operator and explained this to him and asked if I could buy a ticket. He told me to go upstairs and I could buy one there. I went up and explained my situation to the inspectors since I thought it was best to be honest. I was hit with a 20 pound fine even though I tried to explain it was a genuine mistake. Being a student I didn't have the funds on me that day so i waited. The fine then started going up and I thought if I left it, it would go away (silly, i know).

So here I am. The money ins't the problem anymore. I can ask my parents for a loan. The problem is having a record! Even if I get the greatest results, they will be for nothing if I can't get a job.

this is my first time I have ever got a train fine. I've seen people mention settling out of court? How do I go about doing this?

Thanks for any help,

A distressed student.

 

[mikeg]

It sounds like you were asked to pay a penalty fare*, which is indeed for an honest mistake such as forgetting to buy a ticket and should have been paid. Like it or not, that's what it's there for and by not paying and ignoring correspondence you have given them the impression that you are deliberately not paying (a criminal offence). Also by refusing to pay the penalty fare you have intended to travel without paying the correct fare (the penalty fare becomes the correct fare once the conditions for one are met), an offence under the regulation of railways act 1889. They may however instead chose to use the railway bylaws in which case you won't get a criminal record, but will still have to pay a fine and costs. As you have been summoned, could you tell us which piece of legislation they are planning to use?

Other members, in particular the fares advisors will help you draft a letter without further incriminating yourself further. Please be aware they do not have to settle, but there's a good chance of it (although the point of summons is rather late I have to say)- if they choose to make an example of you in court that is their decision.

*A penalty fare is not a fine. Only a court can issue one of these, rather it is a fare at a higher than normal level.

 

[Petty1]

Thank you for your reply.

I understand why i've been summoned. I have just dug a bigger hole for myself.

There is a lot of information so i will try and pick the parts that seem the most relevant.

that you on the 26th sep 213 between Selly oak and Birmingham new st in that you were unable to hand over a ticket for inspection and verification of validity when asked to do so by an authorised person

Contrary to 18(2) of the railway byelaws 205, made under section 219 of the transport act 2000 by the strategic rail authority and confirmed under schedule 20 of the transport act 2000 as amend by section 46 of the railways act 2005.

On page 5 it also says that the inspector was inspecting tickets and came to me and I couldn't produce a ticket.In reality the inspector was to the side of the ticket checkers and I made the move to go over to him.

 

[mikeg]

It looks like you have avoided a criminal record then, as the byelaw offence of failing to produce a valid ticket for inspection is non-recordable. If it helps, that is one thing you need not worry about.

However it could still be worth settling out of court as this would be cheaper than the fine and costs. I'm not sure that the incorrect details on page 5 will make any difference if they do not materially affect the accusations of the fact that you were unable to produce a valid ticket for inspection.

My advice is to be apologetic, offer to pay off any admin and legal costs as appropriate, one again apologise and not to make excuses/justify your actions (though you seem not to be making excuses to me, I thought I'd better mention this). Though as I say you are best contacting a member of the forum identified as a fares advisor for help with the letter.

 

[Petty1]

It looks like you have avoided a criminal record then, as the byelaw offence of failing to produce a valid ticket for inspection is non-recordable. If it helps, that is one thing you need not worry about.

However it could still be worth settling out of court as this would be cheaper than the fine and costs. I'm not sure that the incorrect details on page 5 will make any difference if they do not materially affect the accusations of the fact that you were unable to produce a valid ticket for inspection.

My advice is to be apologetic, offer to pay off any admin and legal costs as appropriate, one again apologise and not to make excuses/justify your actions (though you seem not to be making excuses to me, I thought I'd better mention this). Though as I say you are best contacting a member of the forum identified as a fares advisor for help with the letter.

Thanks very much! That's a weight off my shoulders! I'll email/PM bb21 as he seems to be an old timer here.

you've really helped me today. I appreciate it mate, thank you.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

It would be appropriate for you to write to the Company in the terms that mikeg has suggested, including the willingness to make a payment in settlement of their costs.
However, and if I am reading this correctly, a Summons has already been issued to you by a Magistrates Court. This means that there are now 3 parties involved, you, the Company and the Court. Companies are less inclined to remove a matter from a listing to be heard in Court once the Summonses have been requested, and even if they do, you would want to be absolutely sure that the Court has been informed that the matter has been withdrawn.
Correspondence about the disposal of the matter should be copied to all three parties.

At this stage, I'd guess that there is a high possibility that the Company will want to proceed, which means that your best opportunity for a settlement will be in a discussion between solicitors, perhaps even on the day of the hearing; and if that fails, then there will be little prospect of a defence succeeding.

I agree with mikeg that the Byelaw offence is non-recordable and that there is little to be gained by arguing over detail in the Witness Statement if the fact of the matter is essentially correct in claiming that you boarded the train without a valid ticket.

 

[Petty1]

It would be appropriate for you to write to the Company in the terms that mikeg has suggested, including the willingness to make a payment in settlement of their costs.
However, and if I am reading this correctly, a Summons has already been issued to you by a Magistrates Court. This means that there are now 3 parties involved, you, the Company and the Court. Companies are less inclined to remove a matter from a listing to be heard in Court once the Summonses have been requested, and even if they do, you would want to be absolutely sure that the Court has been informed that the matter has been withdrawn.
Correspondence about the disposal of the matter should be copied to all three parties.

At this stage, I'd guess that there is a high possibility that the Company will want to proceed, which means that your best opportunity for a settlement will be in a discussion between solicitors, perhaps even on the day of the hearing; and if that fails, then there will be little prospect of a defence succeeding.

I agree with mikeg that the Byelaw offence is non-recordable and that there is little to be gained by arguing over detail in the Witness Statement if the fact of the matter is essentially correct in claiming that you boarded the train without a valid ticket.

I went into citizen advice today and they said I would be left with a criminal record. Altough people on here think seem to think otherwise so there is hope.

Dave, do you have details to where I can send my email/letter? I was hoping for a reply from bb21 but unfortunately he hasn't got back to me.

 

[bb21]

Conviction under the Railway Byelaws should not result in a criminal record as it is not a recordable offence. That much is for sure. I am confident that CAB are incorrect on this. Remember that CAB staff are not legal specialists so they may not be accurate on the technicalities of particular legislation.

Conviction under the Regulation of Railways Act however is recordable but you are not being prosecuted under that AFAIK.

This thread has just come to my attention. Sorry I am not aware of anything you have sent me in particular. What did you send?

If you want to send me a PM then once you have made one more post this function should be automatically enabled for you (possibly with a small delay).

I am happy to help if I can, but please bear in mind that I am not a legal specialist. DaveNewcastle would be much more qualified in that area than I am.

 

[Petty1]

Conviction under the Railway Byelaws should not result in a criminal record as it is not a recordable offence. That much is for sure. I am confident that CAB are incorrect on this. Remember that CAB staff are not legal specialists so they may not be accurate on the technicalities of particular legislation.

Conviction under the Regulation of Railways Act however is recordable but you are not being prosecuted under that AFAIK.

This thread has just come to my attention. Sorry I am not aware of anything you have sent me in particular. What did you send?

If you want to send me a PM then once you have made one more post this function should be automatically enabled for you (possibly with a small delay).

I am happy to help if I can, but please bear in mind that I am not a legal specialist. DaveNewcastle would be much more qualified in that area than I am.

That is a relief. I sent you an email to the address in your signature. I will also send a PM to davenewcastle. With a bit of luck I might be able to get it taken out of court. If not at least I won't have a criminal record.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

bb21 is of course correct. The Byelaw offence does not carry a criminal record (although it is a criminal offence). I'm not surprised that the CAB wouldn't be aware of that subtle but important distinction.

As for where to write, I'm sure that you must have received correspondence from whichever Railway Company it is with the address of their investigations and prosecutions office, and from the Magistrates Court with their address.

One common admission people sometimes make in their letters is to illustrate that they didn't realise that they were doing anything wrong by explaining that they have done the same thing many times before without trouble. That of course would make the offence more serious.

But remember what I said yesterday: now that a summons has been issued, many Companies won't consider a settlement unless you have a very persuasive offer to make. It might be impossible to change their mind now that they've convinced themselves that their evidence is robust enough and have paid the Court fee for a Summons.

 

[Petty1]

I will try send a letter/Email and hope for the best.

Beyond that, is my best bet to plead guilty and take the fine on the chin? My understanding is that it will only be recorded with the train company and not on file (Ie. I woudn't have to declare it on a job application)

Here is what I am thinking of sending. Any tips?

I have received a court summons from you for the 29th of April 2014 over an alleged incident regarding fare evasion under bye law 18 (2) of the strategic rail authority byelaws.

This matter started on the 13th of September(check) 2013. I went to Selly Oak train station and waited for the train like I normally do 3-4 times a week. I was very distracted that day with work/personal problems so I suppose I wasn’t fully aware. I got on the train and proceed to New Street. When I got off the train at New Street I realised I had not bought a ticket. I asked the conductor if I could buy one and he told me that I could get one upstairs. I went up stairs and immediately went over to the ticket checkers desk and explained that I had made an honest mistake, presuming I could just buy a ticket a ticket for that day. Instead my details were taken and a penalty fare given. I tried to explain and even showed my previous tickets to prove this was a once off ordeal. I didn’t pay the fine on the spot since I was low on funds that week. Time passed quickly and I missed the appeal date. Letter then started coming through the door for larger sums of money, money I just didn’t have at the time.

I thought if I left them alone that it might be forgotten about, which they did for a short while. I then received the court summons through the post and hence I’m typing this. I am in no way trying to justify my actions. Ignoring the letters is an incompetent idea but I just panicked I tried to brush it under the table. I’m a 21 year old student that travels on your service 3-4 days a week with no prior offences. While I was in the wrong, I was trying to be honest by going straight over to buy a ticket, I therefore implore you to consider my offer of an out of court settlement for the sum of the cost of the court cancellation fees, full administration costs due to you for this process and the fee claimed of £2.00 for the outstanding fair.

I look forward to your reply

Signed

 

[bb21]

That is a relief. I sent you an email to the address in your signature. I will also send a PM to davenewcastle. With a bit of luck I might be able to get it taken out of court. If not at least I won't have a criminal record.

I don't have any new messages on this matter in that account. Although that said, my email server has been playing up in the last few weeks with certain messages going astray, and I only got an email through today dated, wait for it, March 4th.

 

[Petty1]

I don't have any new messages on this matter in that account. Although that said, my email server has been playing up in the last few weeks with certain messages going astray, and I only got an email through today dated, wait for it, March 4th.

Goodness! Quicker to send my by post in that case.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I will try send a letter/Email and hope for the best.

. . .

Here is what I am thinking of sending. Any tips?

Your letter is okay as it is.
There are other points which you could have made, but its not for me to put words into your mouth.

Beyond that, is my best bet to plead guilty and take the fine on the chin? My understanding is that it will only be recorded with the train company and not on file (Ie. I woudn't have to declare it on a job application)

That's correct.

I expect that the Company's response to your letter will be that it is too late to stop the prosecution in Court - they might even say that they can't stop it now, now that the Court has accepted the case and has issued a Summons.

 

[Titfield]

At the risk of being pedantic fair should be spelt "fare" in the context of a railway fare.

 

[talldave]

And even more pedantic to suggest an apostrophe in "ticket checker's desk " and remove the repeated "a ticket" at the end of that sentence!!

Best of luck though!

 

[Petty1]

Hello!

It's 10 months late but i just wanted to pop in to say thank you.

In the end it was brought to court and I was fined £126, although i did not get a criminal record like a lot of people outside of these forums thought :roll:

Thanks guys. keep doing what you are doing

 

[bb21]

Thank you for keeping us informed. Glad to hear that all things have been resolved to your satisfaction.

In the unlikely event that you hear of people having similar problems, please let them know about this place.

 

[Petty1]

Thank you for keeping us informed. Glad to hear that all things have been resolved to your satisfaction.

In the unlikely event that you hear of people having similar problems, please let them know about this place.

I will, thank you.

 

[Yew]

Just remember that you are on the railway companies records now, so be careful, as any future ticketing irregularities may cause them to press for a Prosecution under the Rights of Railways Act, which is a recordable offence (shows up on your Criminal Record) and will typically include a much larger fine.