Help with bus seating codes

[LS-Colin]

I have several books about certain types of buses. When the seating configurations are mentioned it is often given in the following formats:-
B33D+34 or B42F+10 etc. I am aware that the higher number denotes the number of seated passengers and the lower number for standing passengers. What I can't fathom is what the letters B, D or F etc. mean. Can a fellow member offer any explanation please.

 

[CatfordCat]

I have several books about certain types of buses. When the seating configurations are mentioned it is often given in the following formats:-
B33D+34 or B42F+10 etc. I am aware that the higher number denotes the number of seated passengers and the lower number for standing passengers. What I can't fathom is what the letters B, D or F etc. mean. Can a fellow member offer any explanation please.

Before any numbers, it gives an idea of the type of bus -

B = single deck bus
C = single deck coach
DP = dual purpose single deck (the exact definition of 'dual purpose' is variable - tends to be a coach seated vehicle that has door / destination gear / ticket machine fittings suitable to do stage service work)

H = highbridge double deck (generally, things like Bristol Lodekkas count as H because they don't have 'lowbridge' sunken side gangways, even though they are low height)
L = lowbridge double deck (i.e. sunken side gangway layout)

F in front of the H / L - full fronted version of a front engined bus that would normally be half-cab layout, e.g. the Southdown 'Queen Mary' PD3s which would be described as FH39/30F

Numbers - usually upper deck / lower deck, e.g. a London RML is H 40/32R, although occasionally H72R will be used.

the +x for standing passengers tended only to be used for 'standee' type single deckers

After the numbers -

R = traditional rear open platform
RD = rear platform with platform doors
RO = rear platform with open staircase

(although R tended to be used for rear entrance single deckers even with doors - open platform single deckers were quite a rarity much after 1930)

C = centre entrance / exit
F = front or forward entrance (forward entrance being behind the axle, e.g. a half-cab model)
D = dual doors (usually front entrance / centre exit, although other variations did occasionally happen)

The examples given,

B33D+34 sounds like a 33 seat single deck bus with front entrance / centre exit, with room for 34 standing passengers.

B42F+10 would be a single deck bus with 42 seats, a front doorway, and room for 10 standing passengers.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Before any numbers, it gives an idea of the type of bus -

B = single deck bus
C = single deck coach
DP = dual purpose single deck (the exact definition of 'dual purpose' is variable - tends to be a coach seated vehicle that has door / destination gear / ticket machine fittings suitable to do stage service work)

H = highbridge double deck (generally, things like Bristol Lodekkas count as H because they don't have 'lowbridge' sunken side gangways, even though they are low height)
L = lowbridge double deck (i.e. sunken side gangway layout)

F in front of the H / L - full fronted version of a front engined bus that would normally be half-cab layout, e.g. the Southdown 'Queen Mary' PD3s which would be described as FH39/30F

Numbers - usually upper deck / lower deck, e.g. a London RML is H 40/32R, although occasionally H72R will be used.

the +x for standing passengers tended only to be used for 'standee' type single deckers

After the numbers -

R = traditional rear open platform
RD = rear platform with platform doors
RO = rear platform with open staircase

(although R tended to be used for rear entrance single deckers even with doors - open platform single deckers were quite a rarity much after 1930)

C = centre entrance / exit
F = front or forward entrance (forward entrance being behind the axle, e.g. a half-cab model)
D = dual doors (usually front entrance / centre exit, although other variations did occasionally happen)

The examples given,

B33D+34 sounds like a 33 seat single deck bus with front entrance / centre exit, with room for 34 standing passengers.

B42F+10 would be a single deck bus with 42 seats, a front doorway, and room for 10 standing passengers.

Excellent summary. The only additions I can think of are

O - open top bus
CO - convertible open top bus (removable roof usually)

E.g. CO43/31F is a convertible double deck with front entrance.

 

[Andyh82]

You sometimes get M as well as in M16 when it is basically a van style minibus rather than a proper bus. No door code suffix as they don't have a proper bus door.

You've also missed of CH for double deck coaches.

 

[mbonwick]

CH essentially breaks down into C - coach seating and H - highbridge vehicle though.
In theory CL is also a code, but very unlikely to ever occur as sunken gangways are no longer produced.

 

[LS-Colin]

Cheers for that very informative answer Catford Cat. I would never have worked all that out without help. Due to the complex nature of those letter codes you'd thought the various books that I have would've incorporated a mini index key for them. Am sure I am not the only enthusiast who hasn't seen them anywhere else before. Thanks again, Colin.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Many thanks Grand Wazoo for your valued contribution to my dilemma. Regards, Colin.

 

[g4mby]

Cheers for that very informative answer Catford Cat. I would never have worked all that out without help. Due to the complex nature of those letter codes you'd thought the various books that I have would've incorporated a mini index key for them. Am sure I am not the only enthusiast who hasn't seen them anywhere else before. Thanks again, Colin.

Sadly many rail and bus books these days are nothing but lists of numbers (and registrations).

 

[Andyh82]

Fleet books by British Bus Publishing and PSV Circle G lists DO have a key at the front explaining the codes. Others might not though.

 

[duncombec]

A few more:

Before:
A = Articulated (sometimes in connection with vehicle type, so AB or AC)
N = Low Floor. Some older books used "N" (for Niederflur, German for low-floor) to distinguish between step-entrance and low-floor vehicles when it was still possible to buy both.

After:
T = Treble door (e.g. AB49T) in articulated vehicles, or Toilet (in coaches)
L = Vehicle fitted with wheelchair lift. Used to be mobility buses, now used more with coaches as all buses are low floor. There doesn't seem to be much of a decision as to whether it goes before or after Toilet.: C49FTL is the same as C49FLT. As Andyh82 mentioned below, this is also used with Minibuses without a door position, e.g. M16L.

I have recollection that some books also used to use 'A' after for "Ambulance-style doors", but I don't recall ever seeing a vehicle with that code to know exactly what that is meant to look like.

Any more for any more?

 

[mbonwick]

The T after seating capacity is an interesting one;
Uppercase T; triple door - should immediately follow the number, same as D/F
Lowercase t - toilet - should go right at the end of the code - e.g. C49FLt

 

[AnonymousUser1]

<snip>

I have recollection that some books also used to use 'A' after for "Ambulance-style doors", but I don't recall ever seeing a vehicle with that code to know exactly what that is meant to look like.

Any more for any more?

usually seen on 'welfare' buses and MoD ' blow me up buses '

it;s exactly as it sounds a pair of double doors at the back of the bus like the doors on the old fashioned coach built built ambulances ( or imagine a normal LandRover but with split side hinged doors )

in the case of welfare buses usually with a lift but not necessarily with MOD vehicles

the MOD vehicles were built as such as the seats could be unbolted and racks for Furley type stretchers installed to recieve mass casualties coming off aero-med / hospital train/ hospital ship

 

[43106]

I can add a few more, and correct a couple...
M = Mailbus. You usually found this in the Highlands & Islands of Scotland.
F = Full Front, WHERE NOT NORMALLY FITTED. This was the important bit. Bristol SC4LK was a front-engine bus, but it ALWAYS had a full-front body (same as an AEC Bridgemaster), so F never appeared, The PD3's for Southdown and Ribble were specially made WITH a full-front, so F appeared.
U = Utility, redundant now, as it was only applicable during WW2.
BB - Beverley Bar. Only on East Yorkshire double deckers. It was a specially shaped roof so it could fit under an arch in Beverley.
D = Dual Doors. When I were a lad, this generally meant doors in front of the front axle and another set of doors between the axles. If there was ANY other door, then all 3 were mentioned, e.g. Edinburgh's YSG 101, which was a Leyland Leopard that originally had front, centre AND REAR doors. It would have been something like B41FCRD. It later became a coach, though someone has got hold of it, and is rebuilding it as a 3-door bus. Walsall had its 36' Fleetline (XDH 56G) foisted onto them, and as well as the normal front entrance, it had a conventional set of doors BEHIND the rear axle, so it would have been H45/32FRD, or whatever the numbers were. This bus, too, has been preserved. Bournemouth had some PD2s or PD3s with doors immediately behind the front wheel, AND an entrance at the back.
If there were 2 sets of doors BETWEEN the axles on the same side (not in the U.K. AFAIK, but probably in Italy), then I don't know how this was expressed.
8 = 8 foot wide body fitted onto a 7' 6" wide chassis. Redundant now.
T = Toilet. T=Treble is new to me, but since articulated vehicles have come out, I don't know how you express doors, seats, etc.

 

[CatfordCat]

Thanks for the additions - If it had been a bit warmer when the question was asked, I might have thought of open toppers...

It's fair to say that these codes are not really official, and there are some differences of opinion.

I happened across a fairly heated debate on another forum recently over what qualifies as 'DP' (dual purpose) - apparently one 'authority' insisted that anything in a bus shell with coach seats counted (which seems fair enough) but also that anything in a coach shell with bus seats did - this proved a bit controversial.

 

[Robertj21a]

I can add a few more, and correct a couple...
M = Mailbus. You usually found this in the Highlands & Islands of Scotland.
F = Full Front, WHERE NOT NORMALLY FITTED. This was the important bit. Bristol SC4LK was a front-engine bus, but it ALWAYS had a full-front body (same as an AEC Bridgemaster), so F never appeared, The PD3's for Southdown and Ribble were specially made WITH a full-front, so F appeared.
U = Utility, redundant now, as it was only applicable during WW2.
BB - Beverley Bar. Only on East Yorkshire double deckers. It was a specially shaped roof so it could fit under an arch in Beverley.
D = Dual Doors. When I were a lad, this generally meant doors in front of the front axle and another set of doors between the axles. If there was ANY other door, then all 3 were mentioned, e.g. Edinburgh's YSG 101, which was a Leyland Leopard that originally had front, centre AND REAR doors. It would have been something like B41FCRD. It later became a coach, though someone has got hold of it, and is rebuilding it as a 3-door bus. Walsall had its 36' Fleetline (XDH 56G) foisted onto them, and as well as the normal front entrance, it had a conventional set of doors BEHIND the rear axle, so it would have been H45/32FRD, or whatever the numbers were. This bus, too, has been preserved. Bournemouth had some PD2s or PD3s with doors immediately behind the front wheel, AND an entrance at the back.
If there were 2 sets of doors BETWEEN the axles on the same side (not in the U.K. AFAIK, but probably in Italy), then I don't know how this was expressed.
8 = 8 foot wide body fitted onto a 7' 6" wide chassis. Redundant now.
T = Toilet. T=Treble is new to me, but since articulated vehicles have come out, I don't know how you express doors, seats, etc.

Not quite.

After the seating capacity, T = Three doors, t = toilet.

 

[gage75]

another one is

PO Partial Open Top upper deck

more prevalant on sightseeing buses like those found in London and other major tourist cities

 

[TrainfanBen]

I happened across a fairly heated debate on another forum recently over what qualifies as 'DP' (dual purpose) - apparently one 'authority' insisted that anything in a bus shell with coach seats counted (which seems fair enough) but also that anything in a coach shell with bus seats did - this proved a bit controversial.

I know some MCW Metrobus MK2's in the West Midlands had coach seats and single line destination blinds, they were designated as DP, I can't remember but one or two may survive with National Express West Midlands as converted training vehicles.

They were clearly buses on express style workings, definately not coaches.
The same services (Route numbers from 900) now are operated by modern vehicles with standard bus seats.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I know some MCW Metrobus MK2's in the West Midlands had coach seats and single line destination blinds, they were designated as DP, I can't remember but one or two may survive with National Express West Midlands as converted training vehicles.

They were clearly buses on express style workings, definately not coaches.
The same services (Route numbers from 900) now are operated by modern vehicles with standard bus seats.

However, those Timesaver deckers did actually make it onto National Express services..... albeit not the standard ones but I think were used on a NatEx shuttle service from Birmingham or Coventry to Long Marston for a festival!

In the late 70's/early 80's especially, DPs were often coach bodies and high back seats but with twin express doors, driver cabs (e.g. rear partition, door, cash tray, ticket machine mounting) and a destination screen (known as a Bristol dome). However, they were coaches with coach seats but were known as dual purpose.

This was because of the new bus grant whereby the government paid for half the cost of a new bus so was a good way of getting a new coach!! As long as they worked a proportion of the year on "stage carriage" services, and had the above features, they qualified for the grant!

 

[AnonymousUser1]

I know some MCW Metrobus MK2's in the West Midlands had coach seats and single line destination blinds, they were designated as DP, I can't remember but one or two may survive with National Express West Midlands as converted training vehicles.

They were clearly buses on express style workings, definately not coaches.
The same services (Route numbers from 900) now are operated by modern vehicles with standard bus seats.

much like Lincoln's Olympians 46/47/48 coach seats and high speed rear axles

https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6228/6222809957_caf08ca339_b.jpg

or the 2 volvo deckers they had with coach seats and a walk in boot at the rear .

https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6101/6214961895_0f00a27e3c_b.jpg