Help with a nexus metro fine

[Helenc]

Hi.

I hope you can help with a problem we have with a metro fine.

My daughter is a student in Newcastle and received a penalty notice for the metro for not being able to present her ticket on 16.6.23

She had purchased a day saver ticket and used it in the morning. When she returned the ticket was in her bag somewhere and she wasn’t able to quickly find it. The inspector Was very pleasant and told her that he would have to give a fine but when she found her day saver ticket she could appeal by sending the ticket and proof of payment. She was quite stressed due to not being able to find it on a busy train and accepted the fine. She was with 3 other girls who all had their day savers. She found the ticket a short while later.

She made the appeal through penalty services online service on 25.6.22 providing a copy of the ticket and a copy of her bank statement showing the payment for the ticket. She received a reply by email on 28.6.22 to say that the offence was not being able to produce her ticket and they were not disputing that she had bought a ticket.

At that point she felt it was unfair but thought she would just pay the fine but couldn’t afford to do so at that point. I assume she thought she would get a reminder

However by then she had moved out of her accommodation and back home but as the previous communication came by email she assumed they would send a reminder via email.

She didnt receive anything further until a letter from the courts addressed to our home address.
I’m not sure if any reminders were sent by post to the original address.

She received a further notice letter from the enforcement unit dated 5.1.23 ( although I don’t think it arrived for a week after that as she was still at our home) We didn’t open her post and when she returned back home in 3.2.23 there was another letter stating there was an attachment of earnings. I think that means it has gone to court.
The bill is now £274

We spoke to the enforcement team and they said that we should contact Metro and ask if They would cancel the court proceedings. I’m not sure exactly what the terminology is for this
We have written to the metro and they have already responded to say that the ticket still stands and if she didn’t receive the paperwork she has to submit a statutory declaration which I think means that it will go back to court.

We are trying to work out the best course of action so my questions are

If the inspector gave her incorrect information and didn’t give her time to present her ticket is this the same as not presenting her ticket. Is it worth pursuing this route?

Did the metro have an obligation to make efforts to contact her send a reminder. They did have her email address and there was no previous correspondence via the post.

If we complete the statutory declaration to court that she wasn’t aware of the court procedings, does this bring any advantage if the metro still refuse to accept her defence. Will she then still have to pay the full £274

If she does not dispute and we pay the £274 are there any consequences such as effect on credit rating or does it appear On a dbs ( she is on an unpaid placement in a hospital do this wouldn’t look good)

I may be missing other important perspective so please feel free to highlight anything I’ve not thought of

Thank you for any advice you can giv
Helen

 

[pwharley]

My daughter is a student in Newcastle and received a penalty notice for the metro for not being able to present her ticket on 16.6.23

Could you review this statement, please?

 

[Helenc]

Sorry 16.6.22

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi.

I hope you can help with a problem we have with a metro fine.

My daughter is a student in Newcastle and received a penalty notice for the metro for not being able to present her ticket on 16.6.23

She had purchased a day saver ticket and used it in the morning. When she returned the ticket was in her bag somewhere and she wasn’t able to quickly find it. The inspector Was very pleasant and told her that he would have to give a fine but when she found her day saver ticket she could appeal by sending the ticket and proof of payment. She was quite stressed due to not being able to find it on a busy train and accepted the fine. She was with 3 other girls who all had their day savers. She found the ticket a short while later.

She made the appeal through penalty services online service on 25.6.22 providing a copy of the ticket and a copy of her bank statement showing the payment for the ticket. She received a reply by email on 28.6.22 to say that the offence was not being able to produce her ticket and they were not disputing that she had bought a ticket.

At that point she felt it was unfair but thought she would just pay the fine but couldn’t afford to do so at that point. I assume she thought she would get a reminder

However by then she had moved out of her accommodation and back home but as the previous communication came by email she assumed they would send a reminder via email.

She didnt receive anything further until a letter from the courts addressed to our home address.
I’m not sure if any reminders were sent by post to the original address.

She received a further notice letter from the enforcement unit dated 5.1.23 ( although I don’t think it arrived for a week after that as she was still at our home) We didn’t open her post and when she returned back home in 3.2.23 there was another letter stating there was an attachment of earnings. I think that means it has gone to court.
The bill is now £274

We spoke to the enforcement team and they said that we should contact Metro and ask if They would cancel the court proceedings. I’m not sure exactly what the terminology is for this
We have written to the metro and they have already responded to say that the ticket still stands and if she didn’t receive the paperwork she has to submit a statutory declaration which I think means that it will go back to court.

We are trying to work out the best course of action so my questions are

If the inspector gave her incorrect information and didn’t give her time to present her ticket is this the same as not presenting her ticket. Is it worth pursuing this route?

Did the metro have an obligation to make efforts to contact her send a reminder. They did have her email address and there was no previous correspondence via the post.

If we complete the statutory declaration to court that she wasn’t aware of the court procedings, does this bring any advantage if the metro still refuse to accept her defence. Will she then still have to pay the full £274

If she does not dispute and we pay the £274 are there any consequences such as effect on credit rating or does it appear On a dbs ( she is on an unpaid placement in a hospital do this wouldn’t look good)

I may be missing other important perspective so please feel free to highlight anything I’ve not thought of

Thank you for any advice you can giv
Helen

Hi welcome to the forum

I don't think we have seen any cases involving NEXUS / the metro on here recently. Hopefully ppl will be able to give good advice.

There are other threads on here that involve advice on Statutory Declarations (SD) for people who have been taken to court without being aware - you could have a look for one. I recall 2 things about them
- they seem to 're set the clock' - which I suspect might mean that it could go back to the point where the matter may be able to be settled by paying the original penalty - whatever that is - and not the court imposed fine etc
- you need to act fast as there is a limit on the time in which you can do an SD after you become aware you have been taken to court without knowing it - so the clock is ticking

If the court proceedings have resulted in a criminal charge (which is usually the case with 'National Rail' ticket offences but may or may not be with NEXUS) then avoiding the criminal record from the court is almost certainly important and may be worth more to you / your daughter than the £274 penalty that now stands.

It may be that you could approach a solicitor to help with the SD (as opposed to paying the solicitor to deal with the whole things for you which would cost much more) - SD's must be fairly straightforward and thus ought not to cost much in solicitors fees if you need them to help.

Also - your daughter may be able to get some free help with all this from student Union advice service at university - she should contact them urgently. (this may include access to free legal help if the student union have an arrangement with a local solicitor who offer that - some do).

Other things to think about:
1) it is vital that NEXUS / the court etc can contact your daughter by post - so it may be advisable to set up aa Royal Mail redirect for her pervious university address that she has moved from. See Royal Mail website

2) from posts on here I learn that National Rail Penalty Fares, if appealed, prevent court action subsequently being taken or soem such. I do not know if this applies to NEXUS however [EDIT - see helpful post from @Watershed post #5 below ref this]

3) However - is this a case of them having gone to court to obtains the debt owed for the penalty? As opposed to court prosecution of a fare evasion case? It would probably help if you can upload copies of all correspondence / e-mails received with ALL personal details removed - as that will help people give advice.

Hopefully others with more experience of SDs and Nexus penalty fares rules will be along to give advice.


Ref your specific questions:

A) If the inspector gave her incorrect information and didn’t give her time to present her ticket is this the same as not presenting her ticket. Is it worth pursuing this route?
Might be tricky to pursue as it will be your daughter's word against the inspectors and who could prove how long was given to find it....

B) Did the metro have an obligation to make efforts to contact her send a reminder. They did have her email address and there was no previous correspondence via the post.
Probably not - but see if they have a policy document on their website about what they do - eg a fares enforcement / revenue protection policy type thing . All I can find is this and the Conditions document - which you may have already found - this is citing the new £100 sum but I assume the penalty was £50 when your daughter was asked for her ticket:

Penalty Fares | nexus.org.uk

A Penalty Fare is £100 plus the price of the full single fare applicable for you

www.nexus.org.uk

C) If we complete the statutory declaration to court that she wasn’t aware of the court procedings, does this bring any advantage if the metro still refuse to accept her defence. Will she then still have to pay the full £274
See my comments above for what they are worth!

D) If she does not dispute and we pay the £274 are there any consequences such as effect on credit rating or does it appear On a dbs ( she is on an unpaid placement in a hospital do this wouldn’t look good)
Will depend on the nature of the action at court taken against her but I fear there may be (eg if it is court action to pursue the debt then that probably affects credit rating), if court action for evading a fare then probably other -ve consequences.

 

[Watershed]

Hi.

I hope you can help with a problem we have with a metro fine.

My daughter is a student in Newcastle and received a penalty notice for the metro for not being able to present her ticket on 16.6.23

She had purchased a day saver ticket and used it in the morning. When she returned the ticket was in her bag somewhere and she wasn’t able to quickly find it. The inspector Was very pleasant and told her that he would have to give a fine but when she found her day saver ticket she could appeal by sending the ticket and proof of payment. She was quite stressed due to not being able to find it on a busy train and accepted the fine. She was with 3 other girls who all had their day savers. She found the ticket a short while later.

She made the appeal through penalty services online service on 25.6.22 providing a copy of the ticket and a copy of her bank statement showing the payment for the ticket. She received a reply by email on 28.6.22 to say that the offence was not being able to produce her ticket and they were not disputing that she had bought a ticket.

At that point she felt it was unfair but thought she would just pay the fine but couldn’t afford to do so at that point. I assume she thought she would get a reminder

However by then she had moved out of her accommodation and back home but as the previous communication came by email she assumed they would send a reminder via email.

She didnt receive anything further until a letter from the courts addressed to our home address.
I’m not sure if any reminders were sent by post to the original address.

She received a further notice letter from the enforcement unit dated 5.1.23 ( although I don’t think it arrived for a week after that as she was still at our home) We didn’t open her post and when she returned back home in 3.2.23 there was another letter stating there was an attachment of earnings. I think that means it has gone to court.
The bill is now £274

We spoke to the enforcement team and they said that we should contact Metro and ask if They would cancel the court proceedings. I’m not sure exactly what the terminology is for this
We have written to the metro and they have already responded to say that the ticket still stands and if she didn’t receive the paperwork she has to submit a statutory declaration which I think means that it will go back to court.

We are trying to work out the best course of action so my questions are

If the inspector gave her incorrect information and didn’t give her time to present her ticket is this the same as not presenting her ticket. Is it worth pursuing this route?

Did the metro have an obligation to make efforts to contact her send a reminder. They did have her email address and there was no previous correspondence via the post.

If we complete the statutory declaration to court that she wasn’t aware of the court procedings, does this bring any advantage if the metro still refuse to accept her defence. Will she then still have to pay the full £274

If she does not dispute and we pay the £274 are there any consequences such as effect on credit rating or does it appear On a dbs ( she is on an unpaid placement in a hospital do this wouldn’t look good)

I may be missing other important perspective so please feel free to highlight anything I’ve not thought of

Thank you for any advice you can giv
Helen

Can you clarify whether your daughter was issued with a Penalty Fare? And if so, did she appeal this through the correct, formal channels, or did she just send an email asking for it to be waived or similar? Can you also clarify whether these Court proceedings are in the Magistrates' Court for a criminal offence, or whether they are civil proceedings in the County Court for the unpaid Penalty Fare?

It would be useful if you could provide us with a copy of the appeal your daughter made, any correspondence you have regarding the rejection (with personal details and reference number etc. suitably redacted), and the Court paperwork, so that we can determine exactly what has gone on here.

From what it sounds like, your daughter was prosecuted and convicted in her absence. And whilst Metro were not under any obligation to try and contact your daughter to enquire as to her address, if:

• your daughter was issued with a Penalty Fare, and
• she appealed it through the correct process, and
• Metro didn't cancel the Penalty Fare before the appeal was decided

...then theywere prohibited from bringing a prosecution here, under regulation 11(3) of the Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018. If so, then even though your daughter may have committed an offence by failing to show her ticket, she was wrongfully prosecuted and the matter should not have proceeded to the Magistrates' Court.

The next step here, regardless of how she ended up convicted, is for your daughter to submit a statutory declaration. That essentially resets the matter to the stage at which the prosecution was begun. This then lets Metro take steps to discontinue the prosecution, which - if all of the above criteria are met - they would be obliged to do.

 

[Segedunum]

Can you clarify whether your daughter was issued with a Penalty Fare?

This will have been a PFN - the only other thing Metro CSAs can issue (other than a Yellow Card - not applicable here) is an MG11 - left for particularly egregious fare evasion (such as tampering with tickets or jumping barriers etc) and other offences. In these instances the offender receives no written paperwork and is told to simply await further contact.

Edit - related to the issue of being told to send in your ticket and appeal, this is a tricky one. I personally never advised customers that they would "definitely" have an appeal accepted if they found a ticket, but always recommend it was worth doing so long as they had both proof of payment and the ticket. IMO, they shouldn't have said this with such certainty.

However it is highly unlikely that the CSA in question will remember the interaction (or even work there anymore - turnover rate has been quite high) so this probably isn't an avenue that'll get you very far.

 

[Helenc]

Hi welcome to the forum

I don't think we have seen any cases involving NEXUS / the metro on here recently. Hopefully ppl will be able to give good advice.

There are other threads on here that involve advice on Statutory Declarations (SD) for people who have been taken to court without being aware - you could have a look for one. I recall 2 things about them
- they seem to 're set the clock' - which I suspect might mean that it could go back to the point where the matter may be able to be settled by paying the original penalty - whatever that is - and not the court imposed fine etc
- you need to act fast as there is a limit on the time in which you can do an SD after you become aware you have been taken to court without knowing it - so the clock is ticking

If the court proceedings have resulted in a criminal charge (which is usually the case with 'National Rail' ticket offences but may or may not be with NEXUS) then avoiding the criminal record from the court is almost certainly important and may be worth more to you / your daughter than the £274 penalty that now stands.

It may be that you could approach a solicitor to help with the SD (as opposed to paying the solicitor to deal with the whole things for you which would cost much more) - SD's must be fairly straightforward and thus ought not to cost much in solicitors fees if you need them to help.

Also - your daughter may be able to get some free help with all this from student Union advice service at university - she should contact them urgently. (this may include access to free legal help if the student union have an arrangement with a local solicitor who offer that - some do).

Other things to think about:
1) it is vital that NEXUS / the court etc can contact your daughter by post - so it may be advisable to set up aa Royal Mail redirect for her pervious university address that she has moved from. See Royal Mail website

2) from posts on here I learn that National Rail Penalty Fares, if appealed, prevent court action subsequently being taken or soem such. I do not know if this applies to NEXUS however [EDIT - see helpful post from @Watershed post #5 below ref this]

3) However - is this a case of them having gone to court to obtains the debt owed for the penalty? As opposed to court prosecution of a fare evasion case? It would probably help if you can upload copies of all correspondence / e-mails received with ALL personal details removed - as that will help people give advice.

Hopefully others with more experience of SDs and Nexus penalty fares rules will be along to give advice.


Ref your specific questions:

A) If the inspector gave her incorrect information and didn’t give her time to present her ticket is this the same as not presenting her ticket. Is it worth pursuing this route?
Might be tricky to pursue as it will be your daughter's word against the inspectors and who could prove how long was given to find it....

B) Did the metro have an obligation to make efforts to contact her send a reminder. They did have her email address and there was no previous correspondence via the post.
Probably not - but see if they have a policy document on their website about what they do - eg a fares enforcement / revenue protection policy type thing . All I can find is this and the Conditions document - which you may have already found - this is citing the new £100 sum but I assume the penalty was £50 when your daughter was asked for her ticket:

Penalty Fares | nexus.org.uk

A Penalty Fare is £100 plus the price of the full single fare applicable for you

www.nexus.org.uk

C) If we complete the statutory declaration to court that she wasn’t aware of the court procedings, does this bring any advantage if the metro still refuse to accept her defence. Will she then still have to pay the full £274
See my comments above for what they are worth!

D) If she does not dispute and we pay the £274 are there any consequences such as effect on credit rating or does it appear On a dbs ( she is on an unpaid placement in a hospital do this wouldn’t look good)
Will depend on the nature of the action at court taken against her but I fear there may be (eg if it is court action to pursue the debt then that probably affects credit rating), if court action for evading a fare then probably other -ve consequences.

Thank you very much for your detailed reply western lancer.

I will read the threads around statutory declarations tonight.
I completely agree that even if I’m prepared to pay the £274 I don’t want to be unaware of the other consequences. I’ll look into the legal support we can access

We have now provided her current university address and our home as a correspondence address so I think we have future contact covered for future correspondence.

I’ll upload the letters tonight but it was a PFN received from nexus. I am not sure whether the current fine it is recouping the fine or prosecuting fare evasion- it doesn’t say in the enforcement team documents that it is even related to a metro fine. We only realised when we rang them.

In relation to whether they should send a reminder, I can’t find anything online related to a detailed policy for fines. I also found the link you found but that doesn’t really tell us much.

I need to try and digest all of the information but thank you for getting me started with how to proceed
Helen

 

[Helenc]

This will have been a PFN - the only other thing Metro CSAs can issue (other than a Yellow Card - not applicable here) is an MG11 - left for particularly egregious fare evasion (such as tampering with tickets or jumping barriers etc) and other offences. In these instances the offender receives no written paperwork and is told to simply await further contact.

Edit - related to the issue of being told to send in your ticket and appeal, this is a tricky one. I personally never advised customers that they would "definitely" have an appeal accepted if they found a ticket, but always recommend it was worth doing so long as they had both proof of payment and the ticket. IMO, they shouldn't have said this with such certainty.

However it is highly unlikely that the CSA in question will remember the interaction (or even work there anymore - turnover rate has been quite high) so this probably isn't an avenue that'll get you very far.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Feb 2023 ==

Hi
Yes it was definitely a pfn.

I know it’s going to be difficult to argue with what the ticket inspector said. There were witnesses but it’s still very subjective and her interpretation may not have been what he meant. It’s just frustrating because she had a ticket and could have provided it with a bit of time but she got in panic trying to find it. I can see both perspectives but it’s frustrating to be in this situation when she had a ticket

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Feb 2023 ==

Can you clarify whether your daughter was issued with a Penalty Fare? And if so, did she appeal this through the correct, formal channels, or did she just send an email asking for it to be waived or similar? Can you also clarify whether these Court proceedings are in the Magistrates' Court for a criminal offence, or whether they are civil proceedings in the County Court for the unpaid Penalty Fare?

It would be useful if you could provide us with a copy of the appeal your daughter made, any correspondence you have regarding the rejection (with personal details and reference number etc. suitably redacted), and the Court paperwork, so that we can determine exactly what has gone on here.

From what it sounds like, your daughter was prosecuted and convicted in her absence. And whilst Metro were not under any obligation to try and contact your daughter to enquire as to her address, if:

• your daughter was issued with a Penalty Fare, and
• she appealed it through the correct process, and
• Metro didn't cancel the Penalty Fare before the appeal was decided

...then theywere prohibited from bringing a prosecution here, under regulation 11(3) of the Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018. If so, then even though your daughter may have committed an offence by failing to show her ticket, she was wrongfully prosecuted and the matter should not have proceeded to the Magistrates' Court.

The next step here, regardless of how she ended up convicted, is for your daughter to submit a statutory declaration. That essentially resets the matter to the stage at which the prosecution was begun. This then lets Metro take steps to discontinue the prosecution, which - if all of the above criteria are met - they would be obliged to do.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Feb 2023 ==

Can you clarify whether your daughter was issued with a Penalty Fare? And if so, did she appeal this through the correct, formal channels, or did she just send an email asking for it to be waived or similar? Can you also clarify whether these Court proceedings are in the Magistrates' Court for a criminal offence, or whether they are civil proceedings in the County Court for the unpaid Penalty Fare?

It would be useful if you could provide us with a copy of the appeal your daughter made, any correspondence you have regarding the rejection (with personal details and reference number etc. suitably redacted), and the Court paperwork, so that we can determine exactly what has gone on here.

From what it sounds like, your daughter was prosecuted and convicted in her absence. And whilst Metro were not under any obligation to try and contact your daughter to enquire as to her address, if:

• your daughter was issued with a Penalty Fare, and
• she appealed it through the correct process, and
• Metro didn't cancel the Penalty Fare before the appeal was decided

...then theywere prohibited from bringing a prosecution here, under regulation 11(3) of the Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018. If so, then even though your daughter may have committed an offence by failing to show her ticket, she was wrongfully prosecuted and the matter should not have proceeded to the Magistrates' Court.

The next step here, regardless of how she ended up convicted, is for your daughter to submit a statutory declaration. That essentially resets the matter to the stage at which the prosecution was begun. This then lets Metro take steps to discontinue the prosecution, which - if all of the above criteria are met - they would be obliged to do.

Hi watershed

Yes it was definitely a Pfn.

She appealed through the correct process. The details are in the back of the ticket . They use a service called Penalty Services who I think are independent.

I don’t know if it is magistrates or county court. I don’t have any paperwork for this and it doesn’t say anything about this on the letter from the enforcement team. I’ve emailed the enforcement team to ask for more information. I will
Post what I’ve got so far

I don’t really understand the part that they shouldn’t have prosecuted if the three points were correct.
She did appeal through the right process but they didn’t accept her defence ? Is this as you understood it. If so would this only apply to magistrates court or also to county court. I know absolutely nothing about the legal process so have only just learned there are two courts.

I will post the information I have so far and hopefully that makes it clearer

Thanks again for taking the time to reply

 

[Cantab26]

There are currently too many variables for us to provide you with meaningful advice.

If you would please post copies of as much of the correspondence and paperwork as you can (with personal details removed) then that should assist.

 

[WesternLancer]

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Feb 2023 ==

Hi
Yes it was definitely a pfn.

I know it’s going to be difficult to argue with what the ticket inspector said. There were witnesses but it’s still very subjective and her interpretation may not have been what he meant. It’s just frustrating because she had a ticket and could have provided it with a bit of time but she got in panic trying to find it. I can see both perspectives but it’s frustrating to be in this situation when she had a ticket

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Feb 2023 ==



== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Feb 2023 ==


Hi watershed

Yes it was definitely a Pfn.

She appealed through the correct process. The details are in the back of the ticket . They use a service called Penalty Services who I think are independent.

I don’t know if it is magistrates or county court. I don’t have any paperwork for this and it doesn’t say anything about this on the letter from the enforcement team. I’ve emailed the enforcement team to ask for more information. I will
Post what I’ve got so far

I don’t really understand the part that they shouldn’t have prosecuted if the three points were correct.
She did appeal through the right process but they didn’t accept her defence ? Is this as you understood it. If so would this only apply to magistrates court or also to county court. I know absolutely nothing about the legal process so have only just learned there are two courts.

I will post the information I have so far and hopefully that makes it clearer

Thanks again for taking the time to reply

I don't think I'd put much hope on the appeal process really - they never seem that balanced.

They will just go on the paperwork sent by Nexus I suspect.

Rule: produce a ticket when asked
Passenger: could not find it while staff waited a short while
Result: penalty correctly issued.
Appeal: rejected

I fear these appeals are just about 'was process used correctly', probably not to weigh up if the penalty was "fair" or not.

Others may disagree in which case I may be being too cynical.

Are there further appeal stages? If so would have been worth a try I suspect.

I sort of hope that going down SD path may allow daughter to pay the £50 penalty fare and that may be best outcome that can be achieved. But well worth going for.

 

[furlong]

I don’t really understand the part that they shouldn’t have prosecuted if the three points were correct.

The train company has to make a choice. It can either issue a Penalty Fare and then enforce it using the civil courts OR it can prosecute for a criminal offence in the magistrates court. These options are mutually exclusive. It cannot do both and there are legal conditions that need to be met if it wants to switch between the two. But it's common for train companies to cherry pick the bits they like from each option and hope that they'll get away with it.

As tspaul26 says, we need more information to work out the timeline of decisions the company and courts made.

 

[Watershed]

Hi watershed

Yes it was definitely a Pfn.

She appealed through the correct process. The details are in the back of the ticket . They use a service called Penalty Services who I think are independent.

I don’t know if it is magistrates or county court. I don’t have any paperwork for this and it doesn’t say anything about this on the letter from the enforcement team. I’ve emailed the enforcement team to ask for more information. I will
Post what I’ve got so far

Thanks. We should be able to give further advice once we have sight of the paperwork.

I don’t really understand the part that they shouldn’t have prosecuted if the three points were correct.
She did appeal through the right process but they didn’t accept her defence ? Is this as you understood it. If so would this only apply to magistrates court or also to county court. I know absolutely nothing about the legal process so have only just learned there are two courts.

If all three points are met, then the Penalty Fares Regulations prohibit them from prosecuting your daughter for a criminal offence, which would happen through the Magistrates' Court.

They can then only pursue the unpaid Penalty Fare as a civil matter, namely an unpaid debt, in the County Court.

This distinction between civil and criminal is very important.

 

[Helenc]

Thanks. We should be able to give further advice once we have sight of the paperwork.


If all three points are met, then the Penalty Fares Regulations prohibit them from prosecuting your daughter for a criminal offence, which would happen through the Magistrates' Court.

They can then only pursue the unpaid Penalty Fare as a civil matter, namely an unpaid debt, in the County Court.

This distinction between civil and criminal is very important.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Feb 2023 ==

First appeal

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Feb 2023 ==

Response to appeal from penalty services

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Feb 2023 ==

my daughter didn’t then respond as she intended to pay the fine when she got a reminder. I can see that she made a mistake here in not responding

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Feb 2023 ==

This was the next correspondence dated 5.1.23 although she didnt open it until she came back to leeds in 3.2.23. Apparently the enforcement team had tracked her home address through sone source

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Feb 2023 ==

On3.2.23 we helped her to write a response to nexus metro stating why she hadn’t replied within the appeal time and some further detail about the fine

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Feb 2023 ==

She then received a further letter from the enforcement team on 4.2.23

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Feb 2023 ==

She has received a response from metro today - see attached. As the letter was also copied to penalty services , it seems that there is an appeal been opened them but I assume when they get to it they will dismiss it anyway

 

[gray1404]

My understanding is the Nexus were statute barred from prosecuting in this case once the first appeal and been heard, even though it was unsuccessful.

A statutory declaration should therefore be completed and when a new court hearing is that it should be stated that they were statute barred. Hopefully this was will result in the case being dismissed. In the meantime once the statutory declaration has been completed you can contact Nexus again and advise them of the above and hope they drop the case.

It is important to note that there is a strict time limit for completing and submitting a statutory declaration once you are aware of the proceedings.

 

[Cantab26]

I see that attachments are still uploading. If you wouldn’t mind adding a further post to confirm once you are finished I would be obliged.

 

[Helenc]

Thank you for checking. There arent any more documents .

 

[furlong]

Yes, there are two aspects to this.

Firstly a Statutory Declaration can be used to undo the criminal proceedings that we have to assume took place here and wind back the clock. This must be done quickly.

Secondly a Penalty Fare left unpaid is a matter that should almost always be pursued through the civil courts not the criminal courts, and specifically the regulations say in respect of an appeal:

(3) Where a person falling within paragraph (1)(a) has appealed against the penalty fare under regulation 16, proceedings for any of the offences specified in paragraph (4) may only be brought against that person for the same failure to produce a platform ticket or a valid travel ticket if the operator, on whose behalf the penalty fare was charged, notifies the relevant Appeal Panel that the penalty fare is cancelled before—

(a)the relevant Appeal Panel has decided the outcome of the appeal under regulation 16; or
(b)the time period mentioned in paragraph 6 of Schedule 2 expires,
whichever is sooner.

You haven't yet found out the details of those proceedings so can only guess that they fall within that provision.

Too late now, but there are three levels of appeal against a Penalty Fare, and although it shouldn't be the case, we seem to see on this forum that in practice it often only seems to be the third appeal where the panel takes into account wider considerations such as the obvious one here, namely the assertion that the travel had been paid for and there was no financial loss to the company. It would also have been advisable to mention in the appeal precisely what it was that the inspector said at the time in respect of providing proof of the ticket.

One remaining puzzle though is where the correspondence about the court proceedings ended up being sent if you haven't located it.

 

[Cantab26]

In summary, the facts seem to be as follows:

1. On 16 June 2022, your daughter did not hand over a valid ticket for inspection upon request.
2. A penalty fare was issued on or after that date. Presumably your daughter gave her name and address at the time and, if so, I infer that it was her termtime address in Newcastle.
3. She appealed against the penalty fare on 25 June 2022.
4. That first appeal was dismissed on 28 June 2022. Your daughter did not make any further appeal.
5. Your daughter did not pay the outstanding penalty fare notwithstanding the instructions in the appeal decision letter.
6. She has since left the Newcastle address and has no arrangements in place for post to be forwarded.
7. A Further Steps Notice (“FSN”) dated 5 January 2023 was posted to your address in Leeds, which is where your daughter lives outwith term.
8. She did not open the FSN until 3 February 2023 when she returned to Leeds.
9. Notice that an attachment of earnings order had been made against her (dated 27 January 2023) was also received by her at your Leeds address on 4 February 2023.
10. On 7 February 2023 your daughter sent a letter to Nexus about the matter.
11. Nexus responded on 8 February 2023 to say that she needed to file a statutory declaration with the court.

Is all of that correct?

 

[Helenc]

Wow that’s a great summary.

There was also a phone call to the enforcement team on 6.2.23 to ascertain what the further steps notice and attachment of earnings related to. They advised to contact nexus to explain that we hadn’t received any court papers

In addition, I feel it is relevant that previous correspondence came via email rather than in the post, hence I think it is reasonable to assume that an attempt could have been made to use this method of contact again.

Thanks Helen

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Feb 2023 ==

Yes, there are two aspects to this.

Firstly a Statutory Declaration can be used to undo the criminal proceedings that we have to assume took place here and wind back the clock. This must be done quickly.

Secondly a Penalty Fare left unpaid is a matter that should almost always be pursued through the civil courts not the criminal courts, and specifically the regulations say in respect of an appeal:



You haven't yet found out the details of those proceedings so can only guess that they fall within that provision.

Too late now, but there are three levels of appeal against a Penalty Fare, and although it shouldn't be the case, we seem to see on this forum that in practice it often only seems to be the third appeal where the panel takes into account wider considerations such as the obvious one here, namely the assertion that the travel had been paid for and there was no financial loss to the company. It would also have been advisable to mention in the appeal precisely what it was that the inspector said at the time in respect of providing proof of the ticket.

One remaining puzzle though is where the correspondence about the court proceedings ended up being sent if you haven't located it.

Thank you for this information. Am I right in thinking that she has 21 days from the date of the attachment of earnings notice to make a statutory declaration?

I am going to try tomorrow to track down the court documents however I have also emailed the enforcement team to ask which court and when this took place. So hopefully I will have more information again tomorrow.

Thanks for taking the time to reply

 

[gray1404]

It is 21 days from the date she became aware of the judgement against her. So not the date of the notice itself but the date she became aware of the situation, 21 days from then. So when does that give her until in terms of submitting the statutory declaration?

 

[WesternLancer]

In addition, I feel it is relevant that previous correspondence came via email rather than in the post, hence I think it is reasonable to assume that an attempt could have been made to use this method of contact again.

You or I would think that - the problem is the case will just have been lumped in with many others (possibly hundreds) of such cases where people just ignore the Penalty notice and hope it will go away (even in your daughters case important post sent to her at 1 address was left unopened or unforwarded for a month, some would call that 'ignored') - they are not going to want to bother to send reminders or e-mails as it's more work to do - when they know they can just pass on the debt for court action (say) and it ends up as an attachment of earnings order or bailiffs or whatever and they get the money in the end without doing more work.

I know this sounds harsh but these systems are not set up to be reasonable to fair sadly, even when people who have done something honest get caught up in them - just because a ticket has ended up lost in the bottom of a bag. The staff on the trains say 'it'll be OK if you appeal it' just to defuse the situation and move on....

But good luck - and I can see you are getting some v good advice on here.

 

[Cantab26]

Wow that’s a great summary.

There was also a phone call to the enforcement team on 6.2.23 to ascertain what the further steps notice and attachment of earnings related to. They advised to contact nexus to explain that we hadn’t received any court papers

In addition, I feel it is relevant that previous correspondence came via email rather than in the post, hence I think it is reasonable to assume that an attempt could have been made to use this method of contact again.

Thanks Helen

Thank you for confirming.

In light of those facts, I infer (but do not know for certain) that the following has happened:

1. Your daughter did not pay the outstanding penalty fare.
2. She has been prosecuted for a breach of Byelaw 18 of the Metro Byelaws.
3. That prosecution is not barred by the penalty fare appeal.
4. She has been convicted in absentia and fined by the court.
5. Due to lack of response to the court papers (presumably they went to her old address in Newcastle), the fine and ancillary payments remain unpaid and have fallen into the enforcement process.

If I am right in that, as things stand Nexus cannot unilaterally get rid of this for you.

Consequently, your daughter needs to do the following as a matter of urgency:

• Ask Nexus for copies of all court papers and the details of the case, including the case reference number (“URN”) and the relevant court.
• Complete a statutory declaration to the effect that she was unaware of the court proceedings until X date.
• Lodge that declaration at the correct court within 21 days of date X. In the declaration, she must explain that she was away from the Leeds address so only actually received and opened the FSN on 3 February 2023 i.e. based on what you have told us date X is 3 February.
• If the prosecution was commenced by way of single justice procedure notice, she must also lodge a notice as to whether she wishes to plead guilty or not guilty at the same time.
• If she pleads guilty, she can either request a hearing to present a plea in mitigation or submit written representations in mitigation.

In the meantime, she also needs to contact Nexus again to make clear that she had a valid ticket on the day in question, but the inspector gave her insufficient time to find it in her bag. As such, she would like them to discontinue the proceedings once they have been reopened following the statutory declaration. Cut out everything else in the letter to Nexus because it is clouding the issue.

Note: Nexus will only be able to discontinue if the case is reopened and your daughter pleads not guilty.

 

[furlong]

Separately, this loophole that doesn't explicitly bar NEXUS from prosecuting under its byelaws while other train companies are barred could be raised with the government through your M.P. I have though always considered that provision to be little more than making explicit an existing principle that, in layman's terms, you can't be punished twice for the same thing and an authority imposing punishment cannot arbitrarily change its mind and replace it with something more severe afterwards - the provision sidesteps the need to attempt complicated 'abuse of process' legal arguments in such situations.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Feb 2023 ==

I would also incorporate the following reassurance from Hansard given during the debate for a Second Reading of the British Railways (Penalty Fares) Bill:

What is more important, the trained, authorised personnel will be given discretion. If a person says, "I have lost my ticket"—not a completely unknown predicament, in which some of us may have found ourselves—it will be possible for the official to say, "That is all right, you can go." There will also be a 21-day discretionary period. If a notice is issued to a passenger, he will be able to put his case in writing. The matter will then be examined by the appropriate authorities at head office. There will be no attempt to bulldoze or bully passengers. If a reasonable excuse is given, discretion can be exercised by those in authority.

 

[island]

If all three points are met, then the Penalty Fares Regulations prohibit them from prosecuting your daughter for a criminal offence, which would happen through the Magistrates' Court.

They can then only pursue the unpaid Penalty Fare as a civil matter, namely an unpaid debt, in the County Court.

This distinction between civil and criminal is very important.

My understanding is the Nexus were statute barred from prosecuting in this case once the first appeal and been heard, even though it was unsuccessful.

A statutory declaration should therefore be completed and when a new court hearing is that it should be stated that they were statute barred. Hopefully this was will result in the case being dismissed. In the meantime once the statutory declaration has been completed you can contact Nexus again and advise them of the above and hope they drop the case.

These posts are incorrect.

Section 11 of the Railway (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018 does not prevent a prosecution being taken under the Metro Byelaws 2000, made under the Tyneside Metropolitan Railway Act 1973.