Help with a historical sign/marker

[Daktor]

Good evening!

I am currently carrying out a bit of research into a military camp where I am based (Chetwynd Barracks). In the junior ranks mess there is a marker on the corner of the wall which I have got as far as finding out that it is a railway marker. However, it is 1/2 1/2 which apparently isn't used in the UK for distances, and isn't used for gradients either, so I'm trying to find out what it is!

The camp has been around since 1918 and was used extensively in both world wars. In WW1 it had a huge rail network as it was the National Shell Filling Factory No 6 and filled around 60% of all the shells fired by artillery in WW1, then it WW2 it became the Central Ordnance Depot (Chilwell) and stored and supplied 90% of the vehicles used on D-Day. Therefore the usage of the train tracks was constant for nearly 100 years years and it had a huge amount of tracks and sidings on camp, before joining the rail network at Attenborough. There are still some rails on camp, in the old warehouses etc. Great stuff!

Anyway, if someone can enlighten me on what this sign was for, and maybe what dates it was in use, I would be very grateful! Unfortunately, I must please ignorance in all things rail related, I have joined this forum to try and pick your brains for some expert knowledge on a fascinating piece of history.

 

[Railsigns]

It's a London & North Eastern Railway half milepost, as illustrated on this page of my website.

 

[Daktor]

It's a London & North Eastern Railway half milepost, as illustrated on this page of my website.

Thank you very much for the quick reply! I guess AI was wrong when it told me that 1/2 1/2 wasn't used! Are these still in use now? Or is this something that someone has pinched along the way when going up and down the LNER in one of the wars? At quick Google search just told me that it goes through Attenborough, so I'm hoping so!

 

[Railsigns]

Are these still in use now?

They're still in use. Today's railway is home to a mixture of ancient and modern milepost styles. Old and new mileposts often stand side by side.

 

[Daktor]

They're still in use. Today's railway is home to a mixture of ancient and modern milepost styles. Old and new mileposts often stand side by side.

Thank you very much for the information. well, at least I now know what it is and where it (more than likely) came from. Just a shame I can't find anything out about it, I might take a stroll along the side of Attenborough and see if I can see any others. It's been there for a good 15 odd years that I can remember, so it must be older than that.

 

[Gloster]

If it is a London & North Eastern Railway milepost, then it dates from between 1923 and 1948. The LNER of those days has no connection with the current company that operates between London and Yorkshire, the North-East and Scotland.

Most of the lines close to Chetwynd Barracks were owned by another company (London, Midland & Scottish Railway), including the one through Attenborough. They would probably have used a different style, but as it is a main line the old mileposts have very likely been replaced.

 

[The exile]

Thank you very much for the information. well, at least I now know what it is and where it (more than likely) came from. Just a shame I can't find anything out about it, I might take a stroll along the side of Attenborough and see if I can see any others. It's been there for a good 15 odd years that I can remember, so it must be older than that.

If it's an LNER milepost it's going to be pre-1948 (though no doubt BR continued to use old designs for a bit) - and probably a good ten years older than that as they would have had other priorities post 1939 than installing new mileposts where not strictly necessary. Logically 1/2 mileposts will in fact be among the most common - presumably plenty of local ex-GCR and GNR branches where this could have (semi-)legitimately come from on or soon after closure at any time in the last 60 - 70 years.

 

[Daktor]

Ah that's a shame, either way I still think it's interesting and I need to find out who put it there !

Here's a question then. The camp was massive and pretty much took up the whole of Chilwell. To that end, do you know if the military would have installed these on the tracks on camp? Or would it have primarily been used for civilian railways?

 

[Gloster]

Ah that's a shame, either way I still think it's interesting and I need to find out who put it there !

Here's a question then. The camp was massive and pretty much took up the whole of Chilwell. To that end, do you know if the military would have installed these on the tracks on camp? Or would it have primarily been used for civilian railways?

That is difficult to say, but I would suspect that, partly due to the frequency that changes in the track layout might have to be made, they would not put up permanent markers: painted marks are more likely. Markers like this were a legal requirement on public railways, so unless a fairly large section of the camp’s lines were regarded as such, I can’t see it being used on the camp’s lines. My suspicion is that it is a trophy or joke, possibly with a long-forgotten story attached.

 

[Daktor]

Yeah, I was thinking along the same lines after reading through these responses. Squaddies are known to pinch things as mementos! I have done so myself! Still, it's a bit of history from somewhere, and I'm glad it has found a home anyway.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Thank you very much for the quick reply! I guess AI was wrong when it told me that 1/2 1/2 wasn't used!

It's not "1/2 1/2", just "1/2", but shown on two faces, so it can be read from either direction when erected properly, with the two faces at 45 degrees to the track.

 

[edwin_m]

Milepost, Great Northern Railway, 3/4 Mile | Science Museum Group Collection

Milepost, Great Northern Railway, 3/4 mile. Double-faced metal mile-post head, black letters on white. Dimensions 10 1/4"x7 3/8"x7 3/8". 260x187x187mm

collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk

The above is a Great Northern Railway milepost, which is similar or identical although a 3/4 in this case. So it is probable that the LNER adopted the GNR style, and would probably have used them to replace lost or damaged ones on other parts of their network too. The nearest GNR or LNER line to Chetwynd was in the Ilkeston area.

 

[Railsigns]

The above is a Great Northern Railway milepost, which is similar or identical although a 3/4 in this case. So it is probable that the LNER adopted the GNR style

Tim Petchey's publication "Railway Mileposts" describes the LNER mileposts as being "a direct descendant of the GNR's final pattern", although there are differences between the two designs, the most obvious of which is a flat triangular web at the top of the LNER type, where the two faces join. The web is not present on the GNR mileposts. Unfortunately, we cannot tell from the photograph whether the web is present or not.

 

[edwin_m]

Tim Petchey's publication "Railway Mileposts" describes the LNER mileposts as being "a direct descendant of the GNR's final pattern", although there are differences between the two designs, the most obvious of which is a flat triangular web at the top of the LNER type, where the two faces join. The web is not present on the GNR mileposts. Unfortunately, we cannot tell from the photograph whether the web is present or not.

Thanks for this. Perhaps @Daktor could post another photo showing the top of the milepost? However, being fixed to the corner of a wall suggests that there can't be a web at the top, so more likely to be the GNR pattern. I'd guess the GNR would be more common, as LNER didn't built many new lines so theirs would only be occasional replacements.