Help - using someone elses Network Railcard on SWT

[Chezka00]

Hi... I made a grave mistake by using my friends network railcard... Was asked by train operator to show some identification and couldn't provide one... So he asked me to put my name (my friends name) on the a paper and address and birthdate but i put the wrong date... He then told me he would confirm it over the phone but haven't heard back from him so I went out the train wwhen I arrived in my destination... Does anybody know what will happen? Please help me my friend was only trying to help me save fare but I know I shouldn't have borrowed it even though it gave me huge savings... I know it's not worth it... What will happen to my friend?

 

[bb21]

Can you give any more details? Is there a ticketing irregularity apart from you using your friend's Railcard?

In response to your final question, your friend might get prosecuted, as might you, and end up with a criminal record, but without more information I cannot comment any further.

 

[maniacmartin]

Chezka00, is there more to the story than you are telling us? I find it a bit hard to believe that a member of railway staff would request such details out of the blue unless there was something else that made them believe you weren't travelling on valid tickets.

 

[Chezka00]

Hi... No the ticket was valid it's just using my friend's network railcard... But I pretended to be my friend but unfortunately I gave out the wrong birthdate... He didn't say anything to me he just never got back... I am not sure if he believed me or was still trying to check it out? What can my friend do? Can she declare lost?

No it's just that I cannot show a valid ID with my friend's name on it... I got a valid discounted ticket though

I am just concerned about my friend... I don't want her to get prosecuted as it was my fault for using her card

I was travelling on an return anytime offpeak ticket and caught 2:30 train

Was ridind southwestern from poole to london waterloo

The train operator asked me if the railcard was mine and I said yes and that's wheb he asked for my ID

 

[tony6499]

Seems strange as the Network Card isn't supported by a photocard and the name is often illegible on it so I wonder what made the 'train operator' pick up on it ?

 

[Chezka00]

I am also wondering why they did that

 

[bb21]

I was travelling on an return anytime offpeak ticket and caught 2:30 train

Anytime? Off-Peak? It's one or the other. What is the price of the ticket?

Perhaps it is the gender that arouse suspicion, but I guess you are not that daft to be using a Railcard with a female name if you are male?

 

[Chezka00]

Around 41 for return ticket... I don't think it's a gender issue I think it's more on the age as she's 10 yrs older... It's off peak return... He just took my friends detail and never said anything... so I just wonder what's gonna happen now... He gave the railcard back to me

 

[bb21]

I can't see anything obvious to be honest. I guess that is the end of the matter. If anything, your friend might receive a letter asking her to explain what happened that day, but the likelihood is small. I can't guarantee anything but I can't realistically see anything further happening.

Is it really worth your friend (and you) getting into trouble for the sake of £30? Just get a Railcard for yourself. You'll make it back through savings on your fare in just two trips between Poole and London.

 

[yorkie]

There is obviously either more to this, or because of the gender being different. A guard isn't going to ask for proof of ID randomly for no reason!

I have absolutely no idea how you can think a guard isn't going to notice the gender difference, yet is going to somehow be a psychic and know of an age difference?

 

[Chezka00]

Thanks so much... Not worth it at all... It was just a sudden trip that I didn't have time to get a railcard for myself before purchasing the ticket... If I'll come off this one never gonna do it again not even if it cost twice the fair I'll incur... Will definitely get my own... Hopefully this will not affect my friend as she was just trying to help out... It was really a very stupid thing to do... Not only did it scare my friend it scare the hell out me too
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
If there is I have no clue... Maybe he was just lookimg for someone to pick on and I was the target... I have a valid ticket so I can't see his point and I didn't push for more answers from him as this might agitate him and get me more into trouble... I've asked around and some people are using others railcard and they haven't been interrogated like that... Do you have any idea why they would randomly ask for ID? Is it because of my nationality? I am a citizen now but wasn't born here

 

[jon0844]

How did you have a valid ticket?

 

[CatfordCat]

There is obviously either more to this, or because of the gender being different. A guard isn't going to ask for proof of ID randomly for no reason!

I have absolutely no idea how you can think a guard isn't going to notice the gender difference, yet is going to somehow be a psychic and know of an age difference?

Dunno really.

I've never worked on the railways, but I've worked in jobs where I've had to check documentation that people produce for various reasons.

Sometimes you just get a feel from the way the person's behaving / looking nervous that something might not be as it should be and that it might be worth checking this one just a bit more carefully than usual. And quite often it is...

(And for clarity, no I'm not suggesting 'picking on' anyone because of their apparent nationality or anything like that)

 

[Flamingo]

We can smell the fear...

 

[maniacmartin]

she was just trying to help out

That implies that she was aware of you taking the railcard and consented to it. If so, she has also committed an offence under the Railway Byelaws. I would forget about seeing the railcard again and hope that the Train Operating Company also forgets. You friend can always buy a new railcard.

 

[island]

When you chose to use a discount to which you weren't entitled, you committed a criminal offence under section 5 of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889. Travelling on a train without having previously paid your fare and with intent to avoid the payment thereof carries a penalty of up to £1,000 fine and 3 months in prison.

Most train operating companies will refrain from prosecuting offences like this on payment of a sum of money to cover the fare you chose not to pay and their administrative costs in detecting the offence. Sums frequently mentioned are in the region of £100. You will probably receive a letter from South West Trains in several weeks' time with a request to account for your actions; in the meantime there is not a lot you can usefully do.

 

[CC 72100]

T
If there is I have no clue... Maybe he was just lookimg for someone to pick on and I was the target... I have a valid ticket so I can't see his point and I didn't push for more answers from him as this might agitate him and get me more into trouble... I've asked around and some people are using others railcard and they haven't been interrogated like that... Do you have any idea why they would randomly ask for ID? Is it because of my nationality? I am a citizen now but wasn't born here

Bold 1) Well, he's probably doing a ticket check, so on the look out for those who don't have valid ones. Flamingo's post could well be true in this case - he and other staff have given examples before of similar situations.

Bold 2) Not if you're using someone else's railcard to get the discount on it you don't!

 

[Chezka00]

Thanks guys... Hopefully they won't prosecute us... It's a lesson that I am going to remember for the rest of my life... Doing something not right just to get a discount is never worth the price you will be paying in the end... I've been reading some post and there are really cases of prosecution I am afraid especially that my friend will face this although she consented to me borrowing her card... She was just being a good friend and it was really my fault... Maybe he might have sense fear in me I can't remember but I was actually listening to some music when he started inspection and I don't think I looked scared... I don't mind paying the settlement it's the prosecution I'm scared of cause it will be forever recorded

 

[CC 72100]

I've said before on a similar thread recently, so OP, this does sort of apply to you)

For whatever reason, people do not see railcard offences as serious, probably because they still have a physical ticket, that is for between the stations they travel between, they think that using somebody elses/ an out of date / not actually having a railcard is a serious issue. I don't quite know why it is the case - all the literature states these things, yet the possible risks involved are not very well known compared to standard, ticketless travel.

Everyone involved needs to realise the severity of railcard 'fraud', as at the moment people only see it as serious when they are caught, they do not really see the potential.

 

[CockneySparrow]

That implies that she was aware of you taking the railcard and consented to it. If so, she has also committed an offence under the Railway Byelaws. I would forget about seeing the railcard again and hope that the Train Operating Company also forgets. You friend can always buy a new railcard.

The guard gave the railcard back so the OP says

Bit unusual as they usually keep it as evidence
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've said before on a similar thread recently, so OP, this does sort of apply to you)

For whatever reason, people do not see railcard offences as serious, probably because they still have a physical ticket, that is for between the stations they travel between, they think that using somebody elses/ an out of date / not actually having a railcard is a serious issue. I don't quite know why it is the case - all the literature states these things, yet the possible risks involved are not very well known compared to standard, ticketless travel.

Everyone involved needs to realise the severity of railcard 'fraud', as at the moment people only see it as serious when they are caught, they do not really see the potential.

I guess its easier for people to buy an adult ticket with railcard discount as the individual then hopes the guard doesn't come and they can then leave through the gates at the destination

If the guard does come they can try their luck "oh I must have forgot it" guard "ok make sure you have next time"

Another note I am sure the Cross Country guards forget about the network card in the Ely/Cambridge area as they never ask to see mine when I travel

 

[DaveNewcastle]

It might help everyone commenting on this thread to look again at the precedent for this offence:
It's Browning v. Floyd (1946) KB 597.

The passenger actually held a valid ticket for his journey, a monthly ticket for his return journey (not the same as a present day season - perhaps more akin to a carnet).
But on his return journey, he kept his monthly ticket in his pocket, hoping to use it on a later occasion, and instead he presented his wife's unused forward portion of her return ticket for the same journey.
He was convicted and appealled.

Three Appeal Court Judges, including Lord Chief Justice Goddard, determined that he had acted contrary to the Byelaws, and the RoRA S.5 of not having paid their fare. His wife was guilty of aiding and abetting her husband to travel with intent to avoid payment and also guilty of transferring a partly used ticket.

The detailled judgement in this case is often cited to illustrate the difference between an attempt to defraud the Railways (which didn't apply then and wouldn't have applied in this case) and the intent of the passenger to avoid their payment of their fare.

 

[southernmanc]

I can confirm form my view in the ticket office, when there is a 'flashing' of the railcard or holding it up to show me with a thumb over the name - I ask to see, and lo and behold the gender has been different (and name as it is boyfiend, of girlfiend).
Two this past week, both confiscated, advised that the holder can pick it up.