Help required with Terminology

[Tentin Troll]

Good Afternoon All,

I'm after a little help with trying to identify a specific piece of equipment that is used on UK rail infrastructure.
I'm fairly new to the industry and work as a trackman in the South East. Recently I was out working, clearing away some redundant signalling equipment, as part of our duties we had to pick up some "spiders" that had been removed from the 4ft and placed in the cess.
My question is, what exactly is a Spider? And does anyone have any pictures so I can be certain that we are talking about the same thing.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Old Timer]

A spider is a plate fixed in the four-foot which has multiple bolt holes so that a number of traction earth cable lugs can be attached to it.

You will find these especially in stations where there may be multiple earths which if attached to the rail would result in a whole series of rail connections. To get around this a spider plate is set in the four-foot and the various earth connections are run to that point. This also has the effect of enable the whole station earthing system to be taken to one or perhaps two defined points which makes things much easier for everyone.

In-situ spider plates must never have the bonds removed other than by OHL staff and this is done only under special arrangements which result in the earthing arrangement being retained.

 

[Tentin Troll]

Old Timer, you are a man who clearly knows his stuff.

That is an excellent description of the spider. I guess the aluminium bar that stretches between two spiders is used to prevent the flow of any current?

I may be fairly new to this but I need (for my own piece of mind) to understand why the different parts of the infrastructure are there. Some colleagues are very good at understanding the infrastructure, some are good on the shovel. I feel my future lies with gaining experience and knowledge and doing my best to minimise my time on the shovel.

Thank You for a prompt and helpful reply.

 

[Yew]

I guess this is also to eliminate ground loops?

 

[Hydro]

Old Timer, you are a man who clearly knows his stuff.

That is an excellent description of the spider. I guess the aluminium bar that stretches between two spiders is used to prevent the flow of any current?

I may be fairly new to this but I need (for my own piece of mind) to understand why the different parts of the infrastructure are there. Some colleagues are very good at understanding the infrastructure, some are good on the shovel. I feel my future lies with gaining experience and knowledge and doing my best to minimise my time on the shovel.

Thank You for a prompt and helpful reply.

Do you work in a DC electrified area? My understanding of the "spiders" with the metal plates are impedence bonds, where AC track circuits and DC return current could conflict?

 

[swt_passenger]

A third rail impedance bond, aka spider, is pictured and explained here:

http://www.semgonline.com/proto/3rts.html

The box where all the cable connections are done can look a little different on newer models, but the set up is the same, with a flat bar to carry a number of connecting cables.

 

[Old Timer]

A third rail impedance bond, aka spider, is pictured and explained here.

There is no aka, that is an Impedance Bond with a busbar.

A spider plate is a specifically named item of OHL equipment, the term which is understood by all OHL trained staff.

If SR staff wish to refer to the busbar as a spider plate colloquially then fine but that is not the official term.

 

[EM2]

In SR land, where we don't have OHL, impedance bonds have always been known as spiders.

 

[daikilo]

Good Afternoon All,

I'm after a little help with trying to identify a specific piece of equipment that is used on UK rail infrastructure.
I'm fairly new to the industry and work as a trackman in the South East. Recently I was out working, clearing away some redundant signalling equipment, as part of our duties we had to pick up some "spiders" that had been removed from the 4ft and placed in the cess.
My question is, what exactly is a Spider? And does anyone have any pictures so I can be certain that we are talking about the same thing.

Thanks in advance.

Sir/Madam, never ever ask a forum to tell you how to do the job your manager has asked you to do. Ask him/her. The last part of your question is probably exactly how you should ask your manager, and what special precautions you should take.

 

[Trog]

Impedance bonds on the WCML were also usually known as spiders at least by the DCE/ACE staff.

They were usually found near the mouths of longer tunnels with a pair of IBJ's where the track circuit type, changed from one to two rail.


As were the four legged handles used to tip Mermaid wagons. ZJV.

 

[Old Timer]

Old Timer, you are a man who clearly knows his stuff.

That is an excellent description of the spider. I guess the aluminium bar that stretches between two spiders is used to prevent the flow of any current?

I may be fairly new to this but I need (for my own piece of mind) to understand why the different parts of the infrastructure are there. Some colleagues are very good at understanding the infrastructure, some are good on the shovel. I feel my future lies with gaining experience and knowledge and doing my best to minimise my time on the shovel.

Thank You for a prompt and helpful reply.

The fitting you describe is the aluminium busbar situated between two capacitor units.

The correct official term for this is the busbar, and the term for the separate connector plate is the Bond Lug Connector Plate.



Spider plates fall within the OHL OLEMI range.


Whilst I have said that the busbar and or the connector plates may be known colloquially as a spider plate in non OHL electrified areas, that would be an incorrect term to use in Safety of Line terms in an OHL area where a spider plate serves a different purpose and is a different fitment.

 

[Tentin Troll]

Many Thanks to all.

The primary assumptions of my limited knowledge seem to be well founded. I am referring to a DC area and as perfectly shown in SWT PASSENGER's post is a picture of the piece of equipment I was asking about. I had been told colloquially that it was a Spider. I accepted this because of the cables that came out could resemble spiders legs? I can now see from your posts that these are actually Impedance Bonds and the Aluminium bar I mentioned is a Busbar.
Daikilo, your post was less helpful. Allow me to retort.
Sir/Madam, after re-reading my post I couldn't see which part was asking the forum how was I to perform any specific task. I quite plainly stated that it had been a task that had already occurred, so precise instructions on how exactly I should pick up redundant equipment would have come too late. And I'm not sure which "Special Precautions" you think might be needed when clearing away equipment that had already been "removed from the 4ft and placed in the cess". In case you are still not happy with this I will clarify further. The spiders, SORRY, Impedance Bonds and Busbars had previously been located in the four-foot on the Down Main on the approach to Ramsgate. They had been disconnected and placed in the Up Cess awaiting disposal, along with redundant signalling equipment and location boxes. I was part of a group that went out and assisted a Crane Controller and Mega 10 RRV complete with two trailers, pick up this now redundant equipment. The Neanderthals and smart alecs that were there that night were either unable or unwilling to explain to me what the equipment, that they identified to me as a Spider, was used for.
Therefore Daikilo, no part of your post was either accurate or helpful, whereas other members of this forum have been polite, courteous and I have found their replies helpful and they have allowed me to improve my knowledge and understanding.

Once again, my thanks to everyone else.

 

[daikilo]

Good Afternoon All,

I'm after a little help with trying to identify a specific piece of equipment that is used on UK rail infrastructure.
I'm fairly new to the industry and work as a trackman in the South East. Recently I was out working, clearing away some redundant signalling equipment, as part of our duties we had to pick up some "spiders" that had been removed from the 4ft and placed in the cess.
My question is, what exactly is a Spider? And does anyone have any pictures so I can be certain that we are talking about the same thing.

Thanks in advance.

Sir/Madam, I maintain my guidance to you, and others.

I understood your words above as an instruction you were given. I continue to strongly recommend you check with your superiors what THEY mean by "spiders".

I am very experienced in internal communication and have seen many mis-understandings due to lack of processes and wording that do not ensure it. If you are/were working on track, I hope you have been briefed on the importance of this by your managers.

Please do not take this as a criticism but rather a guidance from someoe who has been in our industry for over 40 years. People who ask for clarification are often the best as they tend to minimise danger.

As it happens I did not know precisely what this equipment is. I now have a view, but I do not work on the track.

 

[EM2]

Daikilo - it seems clear that the OP was shown a pile of stuff, was told they were 'spiders', and to shift them.
As he wishes to advance in his career from simply chucking stuff into the back of a truck, he is idly wondering exactly what these things are and what they are for.
In his current job, it doesn't matter what a spider is, or what it does, just it's something to be cleared. In fact, I would suspect that the gang leader wouldn't know, either.

 

[Hydro]

I found out what they were from sources other than those I worked with, because those I worked with didn't know what they were technically. We all knew them as spiders, some knew they were some kind of bonding, but the technical aspects weren't known. This was because they weren't anything to do with our job, and thus we didn't touch them or care much for them past coating them in paint (so even the most short sighted of tamper operator couldn't stick his tines where they weren't wanted).

The same went for LOPIs - we knew them as grey post boxes filled with oil. It took a Woking instructor far removed from my chain of command to finally reveal what they were, Low Oil Pressure Indicators for the detection of leaks in oil insulation in the trackside cables.

 

[Old Timer]

Many Thanks to all.

The primary assumptions of my limited knowledge seem to be well founded. I am referring to a DC area and as perfectly shown in SWT PASSENGER's post is a picture of the piece of equipment I was asking about. I had been told colloquially that it was a Spider. I accepted this because of the cables that came out could resemble spiders legs? I can now see from your posts that these are actually Impedance Bonds and the Aluminium bar I mentioned is a Busbar..

I would suggest that if the term is used locally, and there is NO dubiety about what the equipment actually is, then the colloquialism would not be such a problem. In SR land there is only a very limted amount of OHL so the risk of confusion is much lower than elsewhere, where there might be OHL and AC track circuits for example.

Where it is necessary to speak with regards to a Safety of the Line matter, then unless there is a clear understanding between the two parties as to what the equipment is, then the correct equipment description should always be used.

 

[daikilo]

Daikilo - it seems clear that the OP was shown a pile of stuff, was told they were 'spiders', and to shift them.
As he wishes to advance in his career from simply chucking stuff into the back of a truck, he is idly wondering exactly what these things are and what they are for.
In his current job, it doesn't matter what a spider is, or what it does, just it's something to be cleared. In fact, I would suspect that the gang leader wouldn't know, either.

What you have written could put you behind bars, if rhe process to get there is agreed.

I have no idea where you guys think you are going but I strongly suggest you step back.

 

[ainsworth74]

What you have written could put you behind bars, if rhe process to get there is agreed.

I'm sorry but, what!? What on earth has EM2 said that could possibly result in them being sent to jail!?

 

[Hydro]

Daikilo - it seems clear that the OP was shown a pile of stuff, was told they were 'spiders', and to shift them.
As he wishes to advance in his career from simply chucking stuff into the back of a truck, he is idly wondering exactly what these things are and what they are for.
In his current job, it doesn't matter what a spider is, or what it does, just it's something to be cleared. In fact, I would suspect that the gang leader wouldn't know, either.

What you have written could put you behind bars, if rhe process to get there is agreed.

I have no idea where you guys think you are going but I strongly suggest you step back.

Ballcocks.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

What you have written could put you behind bars, if rhe process to get there is agreed.

I have no idea where you guys think you are going but I strongly suggest you step back.

Erm... what?!

 

[EM2]

Wow...
Better say my goodbyes, lads and lasses, it looks like I'm off to the clink! hock:

 

[DarloRich]

Wow...
Better say my goodbyes, lads and lasses, it looks like I'm off to the clink! hock:

dont drop the soap:roll:

Not entierly sure what you have done to deserve conviction but see you in 5 years!

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Wow...
Better say my goodbyes, lads and lasses, it looks like I'm off to the clink! hock:

Have fun, remember you'll be out in half the time!

 

[EM2]

Have fun, remember you'll be out in half the time!

Only if I behave
Actually, I've often wondered what it'd be like to be a Mr. Big. Maybe I could be like Mr. Bridger in The Italian Job...

 

[Hydro]

dont drop the soap:roll:

You can't give him that advice out on a forum. You might not be qualified. He must enquire via his immediate line manager, who will endeavour to track down suitable people in the "Stereotypical Prison Rape Scenario Defence" defence department to give a brief on avoidance techniques, and proper soap handling.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Only if I behave
Actually, I've often wondered what it'd be like to be a Mr. Big. Maybe I could be like Mr. Bridger in The Italian Job...

Or like Grouty in Porridge

 

[MikeWh]

What you have written could put you behind bars, if rhe process to get there is agreed.

I have no idea where you guys think you are going but I strongly suggest you step back.

Would you please explain why asking for knowledge about something could possibly result in a poster on an internet forum being sent to jail? Unless you're seriously suggesting that the said knowledge is subject to the official secrets act?

 

[Hydro]

Funny this should come up, I've just started watching The Blues Brothers, as Jake is released from prison and is getting his belongings reissued.

"One Timex digital watch, broken. One unused prophylactic." <beat> "One soiled".

 

[DarloRich]

You can't give him that advice out on a forum. You might not be qualified. He must enquire via his immediate line manager, who will endeavour to track down suitable people in the "Stereotypical Prison Rape Scenario Defence" defence department to give a brief on avoidance techniques, and proper soap handling.

no - i didnt mean he might be interfiered with - just that he might loose his soap or it might get dented or something. As for the other stuff i am shocked!

However i agree that the need for PROPER soap handling training has never been higher. Does that go on the sentinal card or is it a seperate course these days?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Funny this should come up, I've just started watching The Blues Brothers, as Jake is released from prison and is getting his belongings reissued.

"One Timex digital watch, broken. One unused prophylactic." <beat> "One soiled".

Elwood You don't like it?
Jake: [pause] No, I don't like it.
[Elwood jumps the car over the bridge]
Jake: [impressed] Car's got a lot of pickup.
Elwood: It's got a cop motor, a 440-cubic-inch plant. It's got cop tires,
cop suspensions, cop shocks. It's a model made before catalytic
converters, so it'll run good on regular gas. What do you say? Is it the
new Bluesmobile or what?
[Jake lights his cigarette using his lighter]
Jake: Fix the cigarette lighter.

 

[Hydro]

. Does that go on the sentinal card or is it a seerate course these days?

It's safety critical, yes it does. Will be on as Auxiliary Operating Duties Soap, or AOD(SP).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

no - i didnt mean he might be interfiered with - just that he might loose his soap or it might get dented or something. As for the other stuff i am shocked!

However i agree that the need for PROPER soap handling training has never been higher. Does that go on the sentinal card or is it a seperate course these days?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Elwood You don't like it?
Jake: [pause] No, I don't like it.
[Elwood jumps the car over the bridge]
Jake: [impressed] Car's got a lot of pickup.
Elwood: It's got a cop motor, a 440-cubic-inch plant. It's got cop tires,
cop suspensions, cop shocks. It's a model made before catalytic
converters, so it'll run good on regular gas. What do you say? Is it the
new Bluesmobile or what?
[Jake lights his cigarette using his lighter]
Jake: Fix the cigarette lighter.

Get away, as soon as I saw that in the post, that scene started!