Any advice please, or possible way to have this fine reduced?
My daughter was caught back in April, using her 16-17 saver after she had turned 18. We have only just received the letter now in September.
She does have a valid 16-25 Railcard as well but it looks like she has been using the wrong one for quite a few journeys.
They have sent a breakdown of the fine to pay which is £250 fee plus around £500 on outstanding fares but is there an arguement to put forward that the outstanding fares should actually be 1/3 less as she does have a valid railcard as well as having the wrong railcard?
We need to contact them ASAP so any guidance from people who have been in this situation would be gratefully received
Welcome
The Problem you have here is this is not a process with any statutory right of 'Appeal'. What this is is an out of court settlement offer that means if you pay them they will not prosecute - but if you don't pay this / ignore it etc they will automatically escalate this to prosecution in court and bring a case that relates to the one occasion where your daughter was stopped and 'caught red handed' with the ticket discounted by the wrong Railcard - which the railway regard as having no valid ticket, which in England is a criminal offence.
Neither is this a 'fine' though obviously I can see why it seems like one. The railway would argue that this is a request to pay the fares they argue she owes (albeit at a more expensive rate than had she correctly bought tickets with the correct Railcard).
They rely on it being the passengers responsibility to buy a correct ticket, check what they buy is correct etc.
I assume she stopped doing this (using wrong railcard) immediately after she was stopped in April? (if not I would be seizing the opportunity to pay this instead of being prosecuted without asking any questions at all...)
The other problem is that the 16-17 Saver Railcard gives a more generous discount than the 16-25 railcard - and I think no morning minimum fare threshold - so we see numerous cases on here of people who deliberately use it when they are not entitled to that discount as a way of paying less fare / evading the fares. I'm not saying your daughter did this deliberately but as far as the railway are concerned how do they know one way or the other...and if people could just pay the difference they would keep on doing this until they were caught, knowing there was no real punitive element to what they have been doing.
There are a couple of things you
could consider doing
a) politely ask for a clear breakdown of all the tickets they believe have been wrongly discounted with the wrong railcard so you can check this against your daughters ticket buying records (or she can - since as she is over 18 I assume this is all addressed to her) - it's not unknown for them to make errors. You say you have been given a breakdown but not sure if you have it to that detail - they would then send a spreadsheet list typically that you can check. We see GTR being reasonable on here with people they believe are co-operating with them so if you can show they are trying to charge for new tickets when they are not owed they would reduce the sum asked for I think. Such a scenario would for example involve a ticket bought with a 16-17 Discount before her 18th birthday when the 16-17 Railcard was owned and valid for use.
b) you could appeal to their better nature by demonstrating that for all this time she did actually have the 16-25 railcard (assuming she had that for the date of her 1st journey after she turned 18) and asking if they would kindly consider reducing the sum to the fare she should have paid using that Railcard. That would involve a profuse grovelling apology, a request for their sympathetic consideration, a willingness to pay their 'admin fee' and a request (not an offer...) to be permitted to pay the fare with the correct railcard.
However, the risk of (b) is that they withdraw the offer and just proceed to court. That would be an outcome best avoided as it would cost more and also involve a criminal record (this is a strict liability offence AIUI, if it goes to court). GTR / Southern are fairly reasonable from what we see on here so this
might be worth asking for,
but as I say - there is a risk
I would say if you are minded to engage with them and ask anything along lines suggested above I would suggest you post a draft of what you / your daughter wishes to say here before sending it so that your wording can be checked by people here who will have seen a lot of threads over time.
