Help! Court settlement

[soysauce123]

I am 16 and a college student, I usually buy weekly/monthly tickets as I travel to college by train every day but I had a week in november with only one day in so I just bought a child ticket (i have a railcard but accidentally bought the 16-25 one instead of 16-17, so its only 30% off) which was in hindsight kind of stupid but hey ho. When my ticket was checked I was questioned and said I was 15 but said the wrong year for DOB, after I realised I just told the truth and gave my address etc and I was given a big receipt thing and he took my ticket, told me worst case scenario I would get a letter in the mail to pay the cost of an adult ticket but most likely nothing would come of it as I have never done anything like this before or had any trouble with the service, I thought okay fine I can pay it if it comes. Then 3 months later I get a letter in the post asking me to pay a £70 fine, I tried to dispute it online but the code that I gave didnt work. Then when I went on the payment thing and put it under "penalty fares" it didnt work and the code on the reference number was for court settlements! It says on the letter that i can only dispute it by writing a letter back which ive been procrastinating. Is this even legal? they lied to me, and the ticket I bought is the same price as a ticket I couldve gotten if I had the right railcard (and i do have a 16-25 railcard which costs the same price as the 16-17 one). There is a looming threat on the bottom that the case will get reported to the Magistrates court if I do not pay, but doesn't give me a deadline. How long do I have?
(For context, I think this was either on a Southern or gatwick express train in the southeast)

 

[dciuk]

Please can you post copies of any paperwork/letters/emails you have received with any identifying details removed, but from what you have said so far it is likely if you can make it go away for a payment of £70 that will be you best option.

 

[soysauce123]

Please can you post copies of any paperwork/letters/emails you have received with any identifying details removed, but from what you have said so far it is likely if you can make it go away for a payment of £70 that will be you best option.

just added an image of the only letter I have received

 

[methecooldude]

I am 16 and a college student, I usually buy weekly/monthly tickets as I travel to college by train every day but I had a week in november with only one day in so I just bought a child ticket (i have a railcard but accidentally bought the 16-25 one instead of 16-17, so its only 30% off) which was in hindsight kind of stupid but hey ho. When my ticket was checked I was questioned and said I was 15 but said the wrong year for DOB, after I realised I just told the truth and gave my address etc and I was given a big receipt thing and he took my ticket, told me worst case scenario I would get a letter in the mail to pay the cost of an adult ticket but most likely nothing would come of it as I have never done anything like this before or had any trouble with the service, I thought okay fine I can pay it if it comes. Then 3 months later I get a letter in the post asking me to pay a £70 fine, I tried to dispute it online but the code that I gave didnt work. Then when I went on the payment thing and put it under "penalty fares" it didnt work and the code on the reference number was for court settlements! It says on the letter that i can only dispute it by writing a letter back which ive been procrastinating. Is this even legal? they lied to me, and the ticket I bought is the same price as a ticket I couldve gotten if I had the right railcard (and i do have a 16-25 railcard which costs the same price as the 16-17 one). There is a looming threat on the bottom that the case will get reported to the Magistrates court if I do not pay, but doesn't give me a deadline. How long do I have?
(For context, I think this was either on a Southern or gatwick express train in the southeast)

The 16-17 Saver (and a child ticket) is 50% off the adult fare, vice 30% on the 16-25 as you have noted. You purchased a child ticket being older then 15 and then attempted to pass yourself off as 15, hence committed a criminal offense of intentionally evading the full fare.

Indeed, it is not a penalty fare, but a report for investigation and possible prosecution, which is why the reference did not work on the PF website.

Yes, it is legal, Govia have the ability to take you to court, where you will be found guilty, be made to pay a fine a lot higher then they are offering and you will have a criminal record.

'The ticket I bought is the same price as a ticket I couldve gotten if I had the right railcard' is irrelevant, you know which railcard you have. A person can have more than one railcard, so you could have purchased a 16-17 saver as well (sure, it would have cost you an extra £30...)

'they lied to me' And you tried to lie to them about your age, so your point?

I would pay up and that will be the end of the matter, and don't try that one again.

 

[alholmes]

And to answer your question about the deadline, the letter doesn’t appear to give a deadline so we’d normally suggest 21 days. Although I notice the letter was issued 27 days ago - have you tried the link that they’ve put on the letter? If you delay, there’s a chance that the case is already being prepared for prosecution.

 

[saismee]

To add a correction, it is an "out of court settlement" and not a "court settlement" in this case. Though it may be heading that way based on what @alholmes said above.

 

[soysauce123]

The 16-17 Saver (and a child ticket) is 50% off the adult fare, vice 30% on the 16-25 as you have noted. You purchased a child ticket being older then 15 and then attempted to pass yourself off as 15, hence committed a criminal offense of intentionally evading the full fare.

Indeed, it is not a penalty fare, but a report for investigation and possible prosecution, which is why the reference did not work on the PF website.

Yes, it is legal, Govia have the ability to take you to court, where you will be found guilty, be made to pay a fine a lot higher then they are offering and you will have a criminal record.

'The ticket I bought is the same price as a ticket I couldve gotten if I had the right railcard' is irrelevant, you know which railcard you have. A person can have more than one railcard, so you could have purchased a 16-17 saver as well (sure, it would have cost you an extra £30...)

'they lied to me' And you tried to lie to them about your age, so your point?

I would pay up and that will be the end of the matter, and don't try that one again.

you seem to know more than i do, are they required to offer a penalty fare? I saw in lots of other posts they were offered a penalty fare in person when they got caught and if they couldnt pay it or refused thats when they got sent an out of court settlement. i never got offered a penalty fare when it happened, so i assumed this letter was that penalty fare - is it normal to just never get offered one?

 

[alholmes]

you seem to know more than i do, are they required to offer a penalty fare? I saw in lots of other posts they were offered a penalty fare in person when they got caught and if they couldnt pay it or refused thats when they got sent an out of court settlement. i never got offered a penalty fare when it happened, so i assumed this letter was that penalty fare - is it normal to just never get offered one?

Not all staff are authorised to issue penalty fares, and for those that can they are under no requirement to issue one first of all. They can issue a Travel Irregularity Report or a form MG11, which are then followed up by the back office to determine the best course of action. Also, they don’t have to offer out-of-court settlements, but it’s usual that they do if the passenger cooperates. A penalty fare can only ever be offered at the time you’re caught - it can’t be issued by letter afterwards.

You should be aware that out-of-court settlements usually come with a £150 admin fee, so the sum that they’ve requested from you is very low - possibly a reflection of your age. But if it isn’t paid, they may soon start adding additional fees as they state at the end of their letter.

One final thought - the letter is addressed to your parent / guardian, because of your age. Have you told them? I’m not sure what GTR’s policy (or indeed the law) regarding prosecutions of 16-year olds.

 

[AlterEgo]

you seem to know more than i do, are they required to offer a penalty fare?

No.

Have you bought a 16-17 saver?

You should tell your parent/guardian about this letter. Do they know?

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

How old are you?
Which railcard to you hold?

To answer a few points - GTR are allowed to do this. Legally you didn't possess a valid ticket for your journey which is a criminal offence.
You should not ignore the letter - if you do then the case will be sent to court.

There is no entitlement to be offered a Penalty Fare but it's a bit of a moot point becuae a Penalty Fare (if paid within 21-days of it being issued) costs £50 plus the appropriate fare to the next station. While you haven't been issued with a Penalty Fare it looks to me as though £19.10 is the full adult fare with a £50 fee which would be the same cost as a Penalty Fare at the reduced rate.

I echo the advice to tell you parents about this. I would also pay what is being asked which will make the matter go away.

 

[SuspectUsual]

are they required to offer a penalty fare?

The simple answer is no.

But basically a penalty fare is often issued where a passenger has made what the railway sees as a genuine mistake, but very rarely where the railway sees deliberate avoidance of the correct fare. Obviously you fall into the second group, I'm afraid

 

[WesternLancer]

I am 16 and a college student, I usually buy weekly/monthly tickets as I travel to college by train every day but I had a week in november with only one day in so I just bought a child ticket (i have a railcard but accidentally bought the 16-25 one instead of 16-17, so its only 30% off) which was in hindsight kind of stupid but hey ho. When my ticket was checked I was questioned and said I was 15 but said the wrong year for DOB, after I realised I just told the truth and gave my address etc and I was given a big receipt thing and he took my ticket, told me worst case scenario I would get a letter in the mail to pay the cost of an adult ticket but most likely nothing would come of it as I have never done anything like this before or had any trouble with the service, I thought okay fine I can pay it if it comes. Then 3 months later I get a letter in the post asking me to pay a £70 fine, I tried to dispute it online but the code that I gave didnt work. Then when I went on the payment thing and put it under "penalty fares" it didnt work and the code on the reference number was for court settlements! It says on the letter that i can only dispute it by writing a letter back which ive been procrastinating. Is this even legal? they lied to me, and the ticket I bought is the same price as a ticket I couldve gotten if I had the right railcard (and i do have a 16-25 railcard which costs the same price as the 16-17 one). There is a looming threat on the bottom that the case will get reported to the Magistrates court if I do not pay, but doesn't give me a deadline. How long do I have?
(For context, I think this was either on a Southern or gatwick express train in the southeast)View attachment 175738

You should pay this urgently and in full. And keep proof of payment long term. Keep that for at least a year.

If you can’t pay it get your parents to pay it. Any other course of action will cost you more and involve you in more hassle.

 

[furlong]

They might have sent the wrong letter: It's not so straightforward to take a matter like this to a (not "the") magistrates' court, namely the Youth Court.

 

[soysauce123]

Not all staff are authorised to issue penalty fares, and for those that can they are under no requirement to issue one first of all. They can issue a Travel Irregularity Report or a form MG11, which are then followed up by the back office to determine the best course of action. Also, they don’t have to offer out-of-court settlements, but it’s usual that they do if the passenger cooperates. A penalty fare can only ever be offered at the time you’re caught - it can’t be issued by letter afterwards.

You should be aware that out-of-court settlements usually come with a £150 admin fee, so the sum that they’ve requested from you is very low - possibly a reflection of your age. But if it isn’t paid, they may soon start adding additional fees as they state at the end of their letter.

One final thought - the letter is addressed to your parent / guardian, because of your age. Have you told them? I’m not sure what GTR’s policy (or indeed the law) regarding prosecutions of 16-year olds.

my mum is the one that told me about it, i accessed the page to pay it last night and it was letting me but it was late and didnt want to bother my mum so i left it until this morning and now when i go on the site it says i can no longer pay it. i really shouldve just done this sooner, do you know what will happen now? they gave me a number to call - if i call it will they still let me pay it?

 

[alholmes]

my mum is the one that told me about it, i accessed the page to pay it last night and it was letting me but it was late and didnt want to bother my mum so i left it until this morning and now when i go on the site it says i can no longer pay it. i really shouldve just done this sooner, do you know what will happen now? they gave me a number to call - if i call it will they still let me pay it?

Don’t know, you’ll have to call them and ask. It might be better if your mum calls them.

 

[WesternLancer]

my mum is the one that told me about it, i accessed the page to pay it last night and it was letting me but it was late and didnt want to bother my mum so i left it until this morning and now when i go on the site it says i can no longer pay it. i really shouldve just done this sooner, do you know what will happen now? they gave me a number to call - if i call it will they still let me pay it?

Yes. Your first step today when they open is to try to ring them to get them to allow you to pay.

If you can’t get through to anyone who can make that happen I think you / your mum need to urgently e mail or write to them (hard copy on paper) asking them to let you pay this.

We can help with the wording of what would be best to say in any e mail or letter so update here after ringing them if you need to.

Show your mum this thread as she’s helping you out.

You may need to wait until after 9am today to try to ring them.

 

[soysauce123]

Yes. Your first step today when they open is to try to ring them to get them to allow you to pay.

If you can’t get through to anyone who can make that happen I think you / your mum need to urgently e mail or write to them (hard copy on paper) asking them to let you pay this.

We can help with the wording of what would be best to say in any e mail or letter so update here after ringing them if you need to.

Show your mum this thread as she’s helping you out.

You may need to wait until after 9am today to try to ring them.

I just rang them and they still let me pay it, thank you so much for the help! im so relieved

 

[Pushpit]

Thank you for letting us know, it's helpful for advising other in any future cases. One reason why this (removing the ability to pay) has happened elsewhere is that the train company has decided to move the case on up through their system and towards prosecution. Luckily this isn't always a speedy process and as you have found, open to negotiation.

 

[WesternLancer]

I just rang them and they still let me pay it, thank you so much for the help! im so relieved

Thanks for update - that is good news. When you lay keep proof of payment (eg screenshot if paying on line etc) and keep the letter they sent you - keep all of this long term - eg for more than a year, just in case you need it again

also see if your travels mean that the financial benefits of the 16-17 saver Railcard (bigger discount, can be used at more times of day IIRC) work well for you such as you end up having one of those as well as the 16-25 Railcard you already bought. Would be worth it if over the railcards duration you save enough to cover it.