Hello and a question for any drivers on the forum

[Vulcan]

Hello,

My name is David and I live in West Yorkshire. At weekends I am a volunteer at the Abbey Light Railway in Kirkstall, Leeds. We are only a small 2' gauge railway so my duties include all sorts, but mostly driving (anything from a loco to a lawnmower!) I also look after the website, which is www.abbeylightrailway.webs.com, for anyone interested. My username, Vulcan, is borrowed from our 44/48hp Ruston.

When i'm not doing that, some weekends I spend at various model railway exhibitions, helping with my friend's layout 'Museum of Transport'. Some of my models from that layout are featured on the show and tell section of December's Model Rail mag (page 102!). I also do the website for that, which is www.museumoftransport.webs.com

And in between all that, I am a student at Huddersfield university, currently in my final year of Transport Design.

This brings me to my question; I have a few questions regarding driving conditions in locomotives that would really help with my final year major project, I was hoping some of the drivers on this forum could help me.
The problem is I don't know which section of the forum to post it under. General Discussion or the quiz forum?

Thanks in advance,

Dave

 

[Geezertronic]

I would just post whatever questions you have in this thread and if it is in the incorrect section, the moderators will relocate your thread to the correct section.

There's plenty of helpful people on here so ask away

 

[Vulcan]

If anybody could answer the following questions, it would really help with my final year Transport design Project for uni.

My first question...

What type of loco / unit do you drive and what are the problems with it?

I am mainly concerned about aspects of the cab, but comments on things like ride quality and noise levels would also be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

 

[73110]

Hi there. Lots of problems with the Class 60's I believe if we are talking about cab environment conditions and also some units, I am sure the 150's were bad as are the 319's.

ASLEF, the train drivers union tried to do something about it last year with a campagn called SQUASH. This was all about cab conditions but nothing ever came of it as usual.

The union are good at campaigns but nothing really gets done. The cabs are still the same and even the "Drive Down the Hours" campaign failed miserably but that is for another thread.

Try looking at the ASLEF site of googling the SQUASH campaign.

 

[adamp]

Class 66's are supposed to be awful for crew

 

[Vulcan]

Thanks, I'll look into the driver's union and their campaigns, thanks for the pointer.

I have also heard various complaints about the conditions of cabs, which is why I am designing an improved cab layout as one of the concepts for my final project. I knew the class 66s were supposed to be quite bad but i've even heard complaints now about class 70s!

 

[Muttley]

...which is why I am designing an improved cab layout as one of the concepts for my final project...

The improved cab lay-out (eg 66`s) already exists. The buyers were offered the choice of fitment for the cabs, A-J.
A was the most basic, with the bare minimum comfort/ insulation/ noise deadening, J was the most "luxurious".

You`ll never believe this, but the UK buyers opted for the cheapest, the A model.

To get real success, design a 3" wood shelf with an inch of foam, and flog it for 50p a cab cheaper.


Good luck with your project.

 

[GB]

You`ll never believe this, but the UK buyers opted for the cheapest, the A model

...and then go and spend £1000's upgrading them:roll:

On that note, does anyone have a link to state what specifications you get with bands A-J on a 66?

 

[Vulcan]

...and then go and spend £1000's upgrading them:roll:

On that note, does anyone have a link to state what specifications you get with bands A-J on a 66?

That doesn't suprise me in the slightest. However, its not just class 66s that I have heard complaints about, it would be useful to hear some of the specific things that are wrong in a variety of other loco and unit cabs, to see what issues should be addressed.
I have visited the ASLEF website and read their campaign SQUASH, definately some useful info there.

So far, issues i have discovered include:

• Noise levels
• Control layout (i.e. some controls are far away or hidden and finding them is a distraction from driving.)
• Seating (being uncomfortable, causing back problems and not being adjustable.)
• Heating / air conditioning

anything else?

 

[SWT Driver]

If anybody could answer the following questions, it would really help with my final year Transport design Project for uni.

My first question...

What type of loco / unit do you drive and what are the problems with it?

I am mainly concerned about aspects of the cab, but comments on things like ride quality and noise levels would also be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

If I really got started on SWT's crappy stock, you'd be positively suicidal in a matter of mins.

So just a brief summary of SWT stock:

455: Old, Slow, Basic, Reliable-ish, Draughty & Leaky cabs, does the job.

458: Can be Belligerent, Cantankerous, Reliability going up, but stink like a sewage farm because punters are dumb & can't flush the loo's so they flood!

More faults that the earth's tectonic plates. Stops quickly, most go relatively slowly...

450/444: Kraut Krap! Meant to be the Fantastic Plastic, built to a price not to quality, goes like stink on a good one shame the brakes are crap!

Cab heating can be too good (zzz!), not draughty YET!

158/159: Pocket rockets, getting "long in the tooth", cabs a bit cramped, but can be really toasty in winter & some leak like a sieve, like a greenhouse in Summer. Good reliability & pretty good brakes too.

 

[devon_metro]

158/159: Pocket rockets, getting "long in the tooth", cabs a bit cramped, but can be really toasty in winter & some leak like a sieve, like a greenhouse in Summer. Good reliability & pretty good brakes too.

Knackered engines?

Was on one yesterday (159001), with Celia switched off I could appreciate how rough it sounded, must be all those N7 departures!

 

[SWT Driver]

N7 departures? Someone's going to get their botty smacked & wrists slapped!

 

[Vulcan]

Thanks again, SWT driver's post was what I was after, a list of units and the problems with their cabs.

The heating issue should at least be one easy fix on my concept, given that all cars some with air con and heating as standard these days it shouldn't be too difficult to fit one into a train cab.

Leaks and draughts seems to be a consistant complaint, but this is probably relative to the age of the stock.

Another aspect to think about, perhaps more relevent to freight drivers. When your train is stood in a goods loop/siding/red signal for a long time, what do you do while you are stood still? I mean, is this time to make a cup of tea or read a newspaper or what? I sometimes see freight trains standing for some considerable lengths of time in the loop at Carnforth when i'm watching trains there.

 

[GB]

Another aspect to think about, perhaps more relevent to freight drivers. When your train is stood in a goods loop/siding/red signal for a long time, what do you do while you are stood still?

Depends how long you expect to be waiting there, but it can vary from reading a book, taking your PNB, reading a paper or giving the controlling signaller your mobile number and try a get a few minutes ZZZ. On possessions were there is alot of standing around it can be a good idea to bring a portable DVD player.

 

[Vulcan]

So would a surface for eating packed lunch on be of use? or at the very least a cup holder? I'm not sure about the guidelines for eating and drinking in the cab, but i've often seen Northern drivers get in with a cuppa.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
.
Another thing, I see drivers getting into their cabs with a bag. Where does the bag go when your driving?

 

[GB]

If the eating surface can fold out the way when not in use to save space that would be handy. Cup holders (particulary deep ones) are always usefull too.

I dont know what TOCs say about eating/drinking in the cab, but on the freight side you get no choice and thus it is permitted.

 

[Vulcan]

Righto, theres another design feature for my concept!

Now, how about the displays. I know that you need to keep your eyes on the track and signals ahead, so would a head-up display showing the vital info be an idea? Just thinking of things that would set it apart from existing cabs.

 

[driver9000]

So would a surface for eating packed lunch on be of use? or at the very least a cup holder? I'm not sure about the guidelines for eating and drinking in the cab, but i've often seen Northern drivers get in with a cuppa.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
.
Another thing, I see drivers getting into their cabs with a bag. Where does the bag go when your driving?

With my company eating and drinking in the cab is acceptable as long as you tidy up after yourself.

My bag either goes on the secondmans desk or on the floor when Im driving as its out of the way then

 

[Vulcan]

Do you think some sort of locker for bags would be of use? This may be trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist though if they are out of the way on the floor.

 

[GB]

The thing is, all though bags are out the way they should still be accessable if you need to get something out of it fairly swiftly....drink, food, forms etc etc.

 

[Muttley]

The bag comes in very handy as a door stop to prevent the cab door swinging onto your fingers (particularly on Sprinters when the window is open in summer).

The HUD was a nice idea.
Other handy items would be...

intermittent wipers
a rev counter/indicator to see if all/how many engines were powering

 

[SWT Driver]

With my company eating and drinking in the cab is acceptable as long as you tidy up after yourself.

My bag either goes on the secondmans desk or on the floor when Im driving as its out of the way then

Not on SWT, the number of times I've had to clean up a cab thanks to LONDON crews thinking that the cab floor is a rubbish bin, is incredible.

A nice addition would be a smoke alarm/detector for those individuals who think the smoking in the workplace doesn't apply to them.

 

[Vulcan]

A smoke alarm would be an idea, I was wondering how it would be enforced but I suppose if it was activated, there is a record of who is driving at any given time and the smoke alarm could be attached to the data logger and record a time it was activated.
I cabbed a virgin 57 at the NRM t'other year and was supprised to see marks on the control pannel where fags had been stubbed out. Especially as it still had an ash tray from its old 47 days!

 

[GB]

A smoke alarm would be an idea, I was wondering how it would be enforced but I suppose if it was activated, there is a record of who is driving at any given time and the smoke alarm could be attached to the data logger and record a time it was activated

Nah, have it linked to the automatic brake, when set off it will initiate a brake demand and bring the thing to a screaming halt people will soon learn not to smoke in the cab!

 

[Vulcan]

A bit extreme perhaps but i'll allow it as I hate smoking. disgusting habbit.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

certianly for freight drivers - a hotplate.

 

[SWT Driver]

certianly for freight drivers - a hotplate.

H&S Taliban will more than likely put a stop on that, just in case you burn yourself! :roll:

 

[Vulcan]

Class 20s have a hotplate don't they? If it would be of use I could incorporate it into the design somehow. Or would a microwave be more use these days?

 

[TDK]

If anybody could answer the following questions, it would really help with my final year Transport design Project for uni.

My first question...

What type of loco / unit do you drive and what are the problems with it?

I am mainly concerned about aspects of the cab, but comments on things like ride quality and noise levels would also be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Class 67,

A reasonable loco to drive, good heating, good visibility, plenty of roon in the cab, a computer that tells you what the engine is doing, easily readable gauges, a little noisy but it is a loco and they are all noisy, reasonable ride considering no air suspension. Problems consist of small annoyances like, engine room doors openeing, tight windows, sometimes the seats are naff and also not many drivers or fitters clean up after themselves so sometimes dirty however the WSMR ones are spotless as they are cleaned every night. So, class 67's good locos

 

[Vulcan]

Class 67,

A reasonable loco to drive, good heating, good visibility, plenty of roon in the cab, a computer that tells you what the engine is doing, easily readable gauges, a little noisy but it is a loco and they are all noisy, reasonable ride considering no air suspension. Problems consist of small annoyances like, engine room doors openeing, tight windows, sometimes the seats are naff and also not many drivers or fitters clean up after themselves so sometimes dirty however the WSMR ones are spotless as they are cleaned every night. So, class 67's good locos

Thanks for that, its good to know that not all GM products are completely rubbish!

You mention the engine room doors opening, is this them opening on their own whilst your driving or that the opening is too small?

Also, a reccuring issue seems to be clenliness of the cab. Is this just rubbish being left around or muddy footprints. could this be solved with something as simple as a dust bin and a doormat?