Hellifield work

[trainmananthon]

Hi all,
I went past hellifield station yesterday on the 2nd train to Ribblehead, and there was lots of scaffolding around the canopy, and the trains were stopping towards the northern end of the platform.

Are they just renewing the canopy or are they doing something else?
Kind regards
Anthony

 

[Dunc108]

Hi all,
I went past hellifield station yesterday on the 2nd train to Ribblehead, and there was lots of scaffolding around the canopy, and the trains were stopping towards the northern end of the platform.

Are they just renewing the canopy or are they doing something else?
Kind regards
Anthony

I can swear theres a snippet in RAIL under regions which says that its undergoing further refurbishment.

 

[Grumpy]

They're blowing £500k on redecorating the listed canopy. This is for a station for used by only 27000 passengers pa. and the canopy is largely unnecessary

My local station in West Yorkshire has 450000 passengers pa and has no canopy-just a bus passenger type shelter on each platform. If it rains most of the passengers get wet-there's no money for anything better.

That's perhaps a little unfair-there is a fancy covered cycle shelter on the platform, of the type that seem to have been issued throughout West Yorks a couple of years back. As there are hardly ever any bikes in the shelter some passengers can crouch under that if it rains.

 

[Muzer]

It's a pretty beautiful station though. It'd be a shame to let it rot.

 

[Grumpy]

It's a pretty beautiful station though. It'd be a shame to let it rot.

That wont be much consolation next time it rains when we are standing on our platform.
Better to spend the money building some beautiful canopies on stations where there is a real passenger need in the 21st Century. Hellifield can have the old bus shelters from my station.

 

[RichmondCommu]

It's worth mentioning here that the station building at Hellifield is listed, hence the renovations.

 

[Darren R]

They're blowing £500k on redecorating the listed canopy. This is for a station for used by only 27000 passengers pa. and the canopy is largely unnecessary

My local station in West Yorkshire has 450000 passengers pa and has no canopy-just a bus passenger type shelter on each platform. If it rains most of the passengers get wet-there's no money for anything better.

That's perhaps a little unfair-there is a fancy covered cycle shelter on the platform, of the type that seem to have been issued throughout West Yorks a couple of years back. As there are hardly ever any bikes in the shelter some passengers can crouch under that if it rains.

I'm not sure I agree with the sentiment of 'my station's a crock of s**t so everybody else's has to be too.' My station is the same as yours, but that doesn't mean I want to see the remaining historic stations going to rack and ruin.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I'm not sure I agree with the sentiment of 'my station's a crock of s**t so everybody else's has to be too.' My station is the same as yours, but that doesn't mean I want to see the remaining historic stations going to rack and ruin.

I am pleased to hear that there are other forum members who also have a belief in keeping the more historic stations in good order.

 

[yorksrob]

My local station in West Yorkshire also has minimal facilities and can be an unpleasent waiting experience in bad weather.

However, the building and canopies at Hellifield are a valuable part of our architectural and railway heritage and I‘m glad that funds are being found to maintain them.

If it makes Grumpy feel any better, our WY Metro stop was recently upgraded from one bus shelter type building to one for each platform, so there is hope !

 

[DarloRich]

They're blowing £500k on redecorating the listed canopy. This is for a station for used by only 27000 passengers pa. and the canopy is largely unnecessary

My local station in West Yorkshire has 450000 passengers pa and has no canopy-just a bus passenger type shelter on each platform. If it rains most of the passengers get wet-there's no money for anything better.

That's perhaps a little unfair-there is a fancy covered cycle shelter on the platform, of the type that seem to have been issued throughout West Yorks a couple of years back. As there are hardly ever any bikes in the shelter some passengers can crouch under that if it rains.

I think you have hit on the reason (my bold & emphasis) It may well be a case of sort this out we ( the council) will MAKE you sort it out - if that happens much more money will need to be spent

 

[Grumpy]

I'm not sure I agree with the sentiment of 'my station's a crock of s**t so everybody else's has to be too.' My station is the same as yours, but that doesn't mean I want to see the remaining historic stations going to rack and ruin.

I never expressed that sentiment. Read my last post
If there is £500k available to spend, then spend it on providing canopies at stations that will actually improve the travel experience for present and potential fare paying customers.

The last time I was on Hellifield station was a Saturday afternoon when two steam specials were due. There were probably 100 people (predominantly men past middle age) on the station at the time "ooh-ing" and "aah-ing" and taking lots of photos. But when the second train left the 100 walked out of the station and got into their cars and drove off None had contributed a penny to the railway for their pleasure.
Why pander to the wishes of these elderly nutters who want a free nostalge over something that hasn't been of any real value for 50 years or so? Invest in the future not the past

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Wasn't hellifield's canopy heavily restored not all that long ago? (I'm thinking maybe 12-15years at the most)? I'm surprised it needs doing again if that's the case.

 

[Dunc108]

I never expressed that sentiment. Read my last post
If there is £500k available to spend, then spend it on providing canopies at stations that will actually improve the travel experience for present and potential fare paying customers.

The last time I was on Hellifield station was a Saturday afternoon when two steam specials were due. There were probably 100 people (predominantly men past middle age) on the station at the time "ooh-ing" and "aah-ing" and taking lots of photos. But when the second train left the 100 walked out of the station and got into their cars and drove off None had contributed a penny to the railway for their pleasure.
Why pander to the wishes of these elderly nutters who want a free nostalge over something that hasn't been of any real value for 50 years or so? Invest in the future not the past

Who knows if a Manchester - Carlisle via Clitheroe is established it'll increase Hellifields potential as a connectional interchange between services, they may well yet be investing in the future....

 

[the sniper]

They're blowing £500k on redecorating the listed canopy. This is for a station for used by only 27000 passengers pa. and the canopy is largely unnecessary

That wont be much consolation next time it rains when we are standing on our platform.
Better to spend the money building some beautiful canopies on stations where there is a real passenger need in the 21st Century. Hellifield can have the old bus shelters from my station.

Why pander to the wishes of these elderly nutters who want a free nostalge over something that hasn't been of any real value for 50 years or so? Invest in the future not the past

It's attitudes like yours that helped see many, many stations, including your own local one, get run down and left to deteriorate into their bus shelter only status... :roll:

What remains must be saved. And what makes you think that if the money wasn't spent on saving a listed building, it'd be spent on build a new (probably horrible looking) canopy on your local station? I'm sure there are stations across the country that are more deserving of funds for new building work, were it actually available.

 

[Grumpy]

It's attitudes like yours that helped see many, many stations, including your own local one, get run down and left to deteriorate into their bus shelter only status... :roll:

What remains must be saved. And what makes you think that if the money wasn't spent on saving a listed building, it'd be spent on build a new (probably horrible looking) canopy on your local station? I'm sure there are stations across the country that are more deserving of funds for new building work, were it actually available.

What a load of ignorant tosh. On the contrary it's the head in the sand attitude of people like yourself who don't seem to understand that the railway is a business like any other that needs to retain its existing customers, and attract new ones. To do this it has to deploy its scarce funds into areas that are going to show a return-the return which can then be redeployed to further grow the business.

Squandering such funds on vanity projects that don't show a return ultimately leads to an overall loss of passenger amenity and consequent loss of business.

I am all in favour of more canopies, not less, but in locations where they will be useful for fare paying passengers.

As you say yourself "I'm sure there are stations across the country that are more deserving of funds. " If they're more deserving what sort of twisted mind wouldn't give them a higher priority?

 

[Buttsy]

I would just comment that it appears to me that to Grumpy, beauty is anathema.

 

[Darren R]

How much money is actually being spent on this, and by whom is the work being done? (I know that Grumpy quotes a figure of £500k but doesn't give a source.) Is it NetworkRail that's doing it, or Northern? Aren't projects such as this funded from a different source than that for general station improvements?

Whilst trying to find the answer to my own question, I came across the station usage figures for Hellifield, of which Grumpy quotes the most recent. Here are the other figures:

• 2004/05 16,712
• 2005/06 18,462
• 2006/07 20,057
• 2007/08 20,478
• 2008/09 22,500
• 2009/10 23,702
• 2010/11 25,390
• 2011/12 27,298

(Annual estimated passenger usage based on sales of tickets in stated financial year(s) which end or originate at Hellifield from Office of Rail Regulation statistics. Methodology may vary year on year.)

Spending money on a station that has seen a 63% increase in passengers is fairly justified.

Sorry Grumpy, but I just don't agree with you on this. You are undoubtedly correct when you say that far too many stations are lacking in facilites, especially across the North, and many of those stations are quite busy. But what you are essentailly suggesting is that historic, but quiet, stations like Hellifield should be left to rot until every other (busier) station is brought up to scratch. Two wrongs do not make a right.

 

[boing_uk]

Also it is worth remembering that there are grant monies available from various pots for refurbishment of historic/listed structures. And there will be monies available from local authorities for more bus shelters.

My own authority contributed £500k to re-building P4 at Blackburn and have contributed to improved facilities upcoming for Darwen.

If you want better facilities, Grumpy, perhaps lobby your local councillors.

 

[Buttsy]

Another factor is if you don't spend £500000 on repairing it now, it may fall on people who are on a steam special and the resultant compensation claims for neglegence runs into millions...

 

[YorkshireBear]

I believe the money has come from English heritage (and similar) and some other grant funds. So actually the money couldn't be spent on anything but historic heritage structures. Don't think Network Rail are footing the bill. Also remember Network Rail have a pot of money from government and other historic bodies that has to be spent on this sort of thing and nothing else...

 

[Darren R]

I believe the money has come from English heritage (and similar) and some other grant funds. So actually the money couldn't be spent on anything but historic heritage structures. Don't think Network Rail are footing the bill. Also remember Network Rail have a pot of money from government and other historic bodies that has to be spent on this sort of thing and nothing else...

Thank you for (sort of!) confirming what I rather suspected all along! There you are Grumpy - rest assured that the work at Hellifield isn't depriving the rest of us from getting better station facilities!

 

[SeanG]

Is there anything in the buildings at Hellifield or are they empty, shame if they are, a community/local cafe or shop would be lovely.

 

[Grumpy]

Thank you for (sort of!) confirming what I rather suspected all along! There you are Grumpy - rest assured that the work at Hellifield isn't depriving the rest of us from getting better station facilities!

The Network Rail announcement makes no mention of any other party funding the works. And there is nothing on the English Heritage site. So when someone on this site says "I believe the money has come from English heritage " without giving any evidence then you can rest assured if you wish.

Even if it has come from English Heritage at the end of the day it's the poor taxpayer who's actually paying. That's people on minimum wage struggling to get by but having to pay income tax so some middle class pseud can feel good about squandering it.

I see someone has started a thread on the new Nottingham. Despite all the disruption and money spent it would appear that 2 platforms have no shelter of any kind. Madness

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Even if it has come from English Heritage at the end of the day it's the poor taxpayer who's actually paying. That's people on minimum wage struggling to get by but having to pay income tax so some middle class pseud can feel good about squandering it.

Here ends the political statement from the Socialist Workers Party..

Why do those who espouse such Socialist beliefs conveniently choose to develop selective amnesia where the more hard-line Socialist states are concerned and the most fabulous buildings are constructed without a single thought being given to how much some of the construction costs could have been spent on "the poor" there.

Remember the edifice constructed under the instructions of Nicolae Ceasecu in Romania, as just one example of the point that I am making, but I am sure there will be other such projects that other forum members can put a name to.

 

[Buttsy]

If Grumpy would like to see all historic buildings demolished and replaced with new ones that are cheaper than repairing the old one, I would suggest that he moves to almost anywhere in the US as they don't seem to have any qualms about destroying their heritage.

The UK had the attitude that old was bad in the 60s, hence teh demolition of Euston and the plans to knock down St Pancras.

 

[yorksrob]

The Network Rail announcement makes no mention of any other party funding the works. And there is nothing on the English Heritage site. So when someone on this site says "I believe the money has come from English heritage " without giving any evidence then you can rest assured if you wish.

Even if it has come from English Heritage at the end of the day it's the poor taxpayer who's actually paying. That's people on minimum wage struggling to get by but having to pay income tax so some middle class pseud can feel good about squandering it.

I see someone has started a thread on the new Nottingham. Despite all the disruption and money spent it would appear that 2 platforms have no shelter of any kind. Madness

Well, there's an argument to be had over how much money those on low pay should have to contribute in tax, if any, and I agree with your point that many stations have inadequate shelter these days, however, as a country there will always be a need for us to maintain our architectural heritage.

 

[Chris125]

Even if it has come from English Heritage at the end of the day it's the poor taxpayer who's actually paying. That's people on minimum wage struggling to get by but having to pay income tax so some middle class pseud can feel good about squandering it.

The phase "knowing the cost of everything and the value of nothing" comes to mind.

Chris

 

[Grumpy]

If Grumpy would like to see all historic buildings demolished and replaced with new ones that are cheaper than repairing the old one, I would suggest that he moves to almost anywhere in the US as they don't seem to have any qualms about destroying their heritage.

The UK had the attitude that old was bad in the 60s, hence teh demolition of Euston and the plans to knock down St Pancras.

It all depends. Sometimes old is bad. I seem to recall that the demolition of Euston was proposed in the 1930's by the LMS as it wasn't fit for purpose then. That was nothing to do with attitudes in the 1960's
The rebuilding in the 1960's was to give additional platforms and extend the platforms to a length that met the needs of the then projected services. Despite the whinging over demolishing arches I don't think I have ever read anyone arguing that the operational benefits achieved by the rebuilding could have been otherwise achieved. Given the issues with HS2 and alternative options it is a shame they didn't make it even bigger in the 1960's.

And it's all subjective-I thought then, and still do, that the rebuilt Euston looks more impressive than its predecessor

 

[boing_uk]

I have to agree that I prefer the "new" Euston to the old, even though it is a shame that the arch was disposed of.

That said, it is a refurbishment of an existing listed structure at Hellifield, last refurbished 20 years ago. It can't be demolished, so repair and refurbish is the way forward.

I suppose instead of spending all that money on the Forth Rail Bridge they should have just done a quick job on it because of all those other routes which need wider bridges, say Darwen - Bolton.

I'm sorry Grumpy, but restoration and maintenance, even in an organisation like network rail comes from separate allocations than capital improvements like adding shelters at tin pot marginal stations like yours.

Or you pressure your local authority to match-fund improvements as obviously it isn't identified as a specific need that is important enough, compared to the maintenance of a historic structure.

 

[Condor7]

Is there anything in the buildings at Hellifield or are they empty, shame if they are, a community/local cafe or shop would be lovely.

There is a very nice cafe there already, famous (so the sign says) for their 'Fireman's Breakfast'