Hebden Bridge-Burnley closing for several months?

[mm333]

p42 of http://www.wymetro.com/uploadedFile.../PublicTransportChanges_April_infoleaflet.pdf

Blackpool North services between 09 November 2013 and April 2014

Extensive reconstruction of Holme Tunnel, between Hebden Bridge and Burnley, and track improvement work will close the line between Hebden Bridge and Burnley Manchester Road with services affected as follows:

Train services will operate between York and Hebden Bridge and also between Burnley Manchester Road and Blackpool North.

A replacement bus service will operate between Hebden Bridge and Burnley Manchester Road

 

[61653 HTAFC]

p42 of http://www.wymetro.com/uploadedFile.../PublicTransportChanges_April_infoleaflet.pdf

Blackpool North services between 09 November 2013 and April 2014

Extensive reconstruction of Holme Tunnel, between Hebden Bridge and Burnley, and track improvement work will close the line between Hebden Bridge and Burnley Manchester Road with services affected as follows:

Train services will operate between York and Hebden Bridge and also between Burnley Manchester Road and Blackpool North.

A replacement bus service will operate between Hebden Bridge and Burnley Manchester Road

Presumably the trackwork needed to connect the Toddy curve will be carried out during this period... It'd be rather poor planning to close the line again to do this!

 

[edwin_m]

There's very little to do at the Stansfield Hall end of the Todmorden curve. Unless NR have changed their minds it's just a case of extending the siding that was left in for the banking engine (along with a crossover) when the curve was taken out.

 

[John S2]

6 months of weekends... not 6 months.

I believe it is a solid blockade for several months due to the work on Holme Tunnel.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is the current Holme tunnel profile in need of a great deal of work ?

 

[Darren R]

Is the current Holme tunnel profile in need of a great deal of work ?

Yes!
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2359/2264675179_90f0e135a0.jpg

(Oops! Seem to have done that wrong - link is to the same pic as the attachment but can't seem to remove it)

 

[yorksrob]

I can think of a certain missing link in the National network that would have been quite useful for diversions !

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I can think of a certain missing link in the National network that would have been quite useful for diversions !

Colne to Skipton by any chance ?

 

[yorksrob]

Colne to Skipton by any chance ?

You may think that - I couldn't possibly comment

 

[Welshman]

If it is a solid blockade for several months [and the WY Metro advance advice seems to suggest it is], then would it not be possible for Northern Rail to do some re-jigging of stock diagrams and create through services via Manchester Victoria using existing time-slots?

The Calder Valley service arriving Manchester Victoria at x08 could go forward at x22 in the existing slot to Blackpool North. Admittedly its a bit tighter on the return - the service from Blackpool North arrives Victoria at x47, but in the working timetable it is either x45 or x46, leaving a couple of minutes before departing as the x48 via the Calder Valley to Leeds.

As presumably fewer units would be needed to operate York-Hebden Bridge and Burnley-Blackpool shuttles, then perhaps my proposed through service via Manchester could be a double-unit?

It would need some re-structuring of diagrams, but crews could change at Manchester Victoria [as now], and as both services use the same classes of units - 150s, 155s, 156s & 158s, no new crew training would be needed. And it is only the one TOC involved - Northern, and given we have 6 month's notice, it shouldn't be too difficult to arrange.

The buses would then be provided from Hebden Bridge just for those wishing to travel from West Yorkshire to/from Burnley, Accrington or Blackburn. Surely better than bussing everyone?

 

[Ploughman]

Looks on the pic as if the tunnel end profile has been squeezed.
Definately not a rounded profile.
If the work is to restore the original profile then it may mean that the strengthening ribs visible may be able to be removed.
Possible gauge enhancement?

 

[YorkshireBear]

I believe it is a solid blockade for several months due to the work on Holme Tunnel.

Read wrong bit of link Ta

 

[bluenoxid]

If it is a solid blockade for several months [and the WY Metro advance advice seems to suggest it is], then would it not be possible for Northern Rail to do some re-jigging of stock diagrams and create through services via Manchester Victoria using existing time-slots?

The Calder Valley service arriving Manchester Victoria at x08 could go forward at x22 in the existing slot to Blackpool North. Admittedly its a bit tighter on the return - the service from Blackpool North arrives Victoria at x47, but in the working timetable it is either x45 or x46, leaving a couple of minutes before departing as the x48 via the Calder Valley to Leeds.

As presumably fewer units would be needed to operate York-Hebden Bridge and Burnley-Blackpool shuttles, then perhaps my proposed through service via Manchester could be a double-unit?

It would need some re-structuring of diagrams, but crews could change at Manchester Victoria [as now], and as both services use the same classes of units - 150s, 155s, 156s & 158s, no new crew training would be needed. And it is only the one TOC involved - Northern, and given we have 6 month's notice, it shouldn't be too difficult to arrange.

The buses would then be provided from Hebden Bridge just for those wishing to travel from West Yorkshire to/from Burnley, Accrington or Blackburn. Surely better than bussing everyone?

That is a very good idea. You may want to drop it to Northern, who may be tempted to look through it.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Agreed - a very good idea - a letter or email to their Planning and Performance Manager might pay dividends -

 

[edwin_m]

I also think this would be a good idea. However the York-Blackpool provides a decent fast link for shorter journeys on both sides of the Pennines so the two shuttles would probably still be needed as well as a bus link for journeys between Blackburn/Accrington/Burnley and points east. Hence I don't think any units would be displaced to form doubles.

 

[Welshman]

That is a very good idea. You may want to drop it to Northern, who may be tempted to look through it.

Thank you for your comments, and also to ChiefPlanner and edwin_m

I did send my suggestion to Northern Rail and will let you know of their response.

 

[Wikipedia]

Thank you for your comments, and also to ChiefPlanner and edwin_m

I did send my suggestion to Northern Rail and will let you know of their response.

That will be interesting to see!!

 

[billio]

Colne to Skipton by any chance ?

Or, the possibly more useful, Rochdale - Bury - Bolton link .

 

[GRALISTAIR]

You may think that - I couldn't possibly comment

Brilliant

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Or, the possibly more useful, Rochdale - Bury - Bolton link .

Ah yes, but I was allowing for the fact that the train from Blackpool had already passed through Blackburn, en route to Accrington, heading in the direction of Colne. Of course, at one time, you could have taken the Accrington to Bury branch line and then had a choice of onward routes from there.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The mention of Bolton-Bury-Rochdale as a reopening is an intriguing one - there's a lot of population along the route (I'd guess at roughly 320,000 in the three towns alone), plus the wider boroughs and smaller towns. That's a lot of potential custom, especially if you could also get through services at either end to / from Yorkshire in the east and Preston / Wigan in the west. The 471 bus currently runs every 10 mins between the three and from experience is a well-used route: it would also remove the need to travel via Manchester if sticking to rail, and dependent on route through Bury you could also end up with a three-way transport interchange there. Unfortunately I can't recall in what condition a lot of the trackbed is between Bolton and Bury (it could utilise the ELR between Bury and Heywood / Castleton I suppose, but that's a whole new debate), but I'd imagine it would have quite a decent business case if a lot of it isn't built on.

 

[Geeves]

A couple of possible problems with the inter-working of those Leeds and Blackpool trains. Im not 100% but I dont believe Blackpool men sign 155s with a large majority not being passed out to work 158s either so you might have some issues regarding stock and diagrams but it could work, maybe. I doubt Northern will bother as you can save all the hassle and just change at Victoria?

Plus even with the bus connection to Hebden Bridge it will still be quicker than going all the way via Manchester

40 mins to Manchester from Hebden Bridge. A 12 min wait at Vic. Then a 1h 28 mins all stations slog to Blackpool N... Total time 2h20

Burnley Manchester Road to Blackpool is 1h03 + 30 mins Bus ride Total time 1h 33 approximately

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The mention of Bolton-Bury-Rochdale as a reopening is an intriguing one - there's a lot of population along the route (I'd guess at roughly 320,000 in the three towns alone), plus the wider boroughs and smaller towns. That's a lot of potential custom, especially if you could also get through services at either end to / from Yorkshire in the east and Preston / Wigan in the west.......Unfortunately I can't recall in what condition a lot of the trackbed is between Bolton and Bury (it could utilise the ELR between Bury and Heywood / Castleton I suppose, but that's a whole new debate), but I'd imagine it would have quite a decent business case if a lot of it isn't built on.

The Bolton to Bury section of what what once was the Liverpool and Bury Railway had had much development in the area where it bifurcated from the Bolton to Manchester line, passing the former terracing of Bolton Wanderers' old football ground at Burnden Park.

There were intermediate railway stations at Darcy Lever, Bradley Fold and Radcliffe Black Lane, before the line entered the now razed site of Bury Knowsley Street station. In December 1970 (when I was 35 years of age and having travelled that way numerous times), the line was deemed to be officially closed to all rail traffic and it was not very long before all the trackwork from Bolton to Bury was lifted. I should imagine the costs incurred in reinstating this route with all infrastructural and signalling costs to be borne in mind would be considerable. There may well be matters that would be of concern to TfGM in terms of any strategic transport planning, as all this line falls under areas of their administration and I must confess that I am unsure of how this line is stated in any such forward TfGM planning.

 

[edwin_m]

There's a big housing estate totally blocking the route west of the former Bradley Fold station.

 

[Welshman]

A couple of possible problems with the inter-working of those Leeds and Blackpool trains. Im not 100% but I dont believe Blackpool men sign 155s with a large majority not being passed out to work 158s either so you might have some issues regarding stock and diagrams but it could work, maybe. I doubt Northern will bother as you can save all the hassle and just change at Victoria?

Plus even with the bus connection to Hebden Bridge it will still be quicker than going all the way via Manchester

40 mins to Manchester from Hebden Bridge. A 12 min wait at Vic. Then a 1h 28 mins all stations slog to Blackpool N... Total time 2h20

Burnley Manchester Road to Blackpool is 1h03 + 30 mins Bus ride Total time 1h 33 approximately

Yes, I appreciate what you are saying re the basic times for a bus/train journey from Hebden Bridge to Blackpool changing modes at Burnley.

But it's not quite as simple as that. Passengers travelling from, say, Leeds, Bradford or Halifax, will need 10 minutes to transfer from the train to the bus at Hebden Bridge [negotiating subway, boarding bus, etc], and another 10 minutes to transfer at Burnley. So although the actual bus journey itself is only 10 minutes longer than the train, you will need 30 minutes extra between arriving at Hebden Bridge and departing Burnley. So unless Northern reschedule their service from Burnley-Blackpool and vv. to allow for this [and will it be easy to negotiate new paths through Preston, etc?], passengers will have step back an hour at Burnley to await the next x57 departure.

An alternative would be to catch the earlier x13 from Leeds, allowing time to then board what would have been the following x53 from Leeds at its booked time at Burnley at xx57.

So, either way, for through passengers, the train-bus-train journey with transfers is only going to be some 25 minutes shorter than going by train throughout via Manchester. Perhaps some may feel that's a penalty worth paying to sit in the comfort of the train throughout!

We shall have to see what happens, and await the response from Northern Rail.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It was not so very long ago that the retaining wall of the railway embankment at Cornholme at the end of a street of terraced house collapsed in exactly the same place as had occurred previously. Have Network Rail now reinstated this in a far more secure fashion than was originally effected ?

 

[edwin_m]

Hebden Bridge doesn't have step-free access. National Rail claims step-free access for Manchester Road but the ramp to the westbound platform is very long and the road approaching the ramp is steeper than the ramp itself! So even if the bus is fully accessible those with limited mobility will be looking for an alternative.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

It was not so very long ago that the retaining wall of the railway embankment at Cornholme at the end of a street of terraced house collapsed in exactly the same place as had occurred previously. Have Network Rail now reinstated this in a far more secure fashion than was originally effected ?

Do you know exactly whereabouts in Cornholme this event happened? I lived there for four years in the late 1970's (before, of course, the line had regular passenger services reinstated) and would be very interested to know!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Do you know exactly whereabouts in Cornholme this event happened? I lived there for four years in the late 1970's (before, of course, the line had regular passenger services reinstated) and would be very interested to know!

It was at the embankment retaining wall end at the end of Victoria Street and happened towards the end of last year.

 

[mirodo]

Do you know exactly whereabouts in Cornholme this event happened? I lived there for four years in the late 1970's (before, of course, the line had regular passenger services reinstated) and would be very interested to know!

See this thread for details and pics.