Heatwave 22-27 June - effect on the UK Railway

[Bald Rick]

Really? In normal service 2 trains per hour turn round in one platform and there are two platforms that could be used, so a 4 tph service could operate. With nothing running north of Luton there's no risk of blocking other traffic.

Its 4tph at peak, which is presumably where the reduced capacity is more keenly felt.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

How old are those 465 units? Here in Australia all new trains built since the early 1980s have been fully air-conditioned. Regional trains have had air-conditioning on some lines as far back as the 1940s and 1950s. Some of which are still found on some Regional trains to this day.

Mad to think NSW K Sets are air conditioned yet Class 376 aren't.

 

[dk1]

How are the 720s coping? Up here the 730/2s air-con seems pretty terrible, I walked through the whole train, while cooler than outside, it was still uncomfortably warm, both ways.

Sorry but that’s not my forte. Had nothing to do with that manufactures fleet.

 

[800002]

I'd be interested to know what the TOC's are telling their own office staff after advising their customers not to travel, many of who will be travelling to and from work.

Some office/ desk based staff have been encouraged to assist their front line colleagues at their local / designated station.

Assist with passenger info / handling / disruption etc.
Just like snow days, except very warm / humid.
Passengers choosing to travel need additional assistance.

 

[Russel]

Sorry but that’s not my forte. Had nothing to do with that manufactures fleet.

Trying to think back to when I used one during one of last years heatwaves but can't recall what it was like temperature wise, I do recall getting a Pendo out of Euston later in the evening and it being an ice box and then getting off it again 90 minutes later and felt like I was stepping into the Sahara!

 

[zsl11913]

Spare a thought for those who have to use trians with no aircons.... Travelled on a SWR 159 (or 158?) last summer to Exeter and only the aircon in first class carriage managed to work a little bit.

 

[LTJ87]

I was due to travel from Nuneaton to Euston on AWC tomorrow afternoon. Just checked the AWC website and everything is now showing as cancelled.

 

[Russel]

I was due to travel from Nuneaton to Euston on AWC tomorrow afternoon. Just checked the AWC website and everything is now showing as cancelled.

Stuck in Nuneaton, you have my sympathy.

 

[dk1]

Spare a thought for those who have to use trians with no aircons.... Travelled on a SWR 159 (or 158?) last summer to Exeter and only the aircon in first class carriage managed to work a little bit.

It’s been the norm with that fleet since inception in the early 90s. At least the guard can open the hopper windows with a T-key to provide minim ventilation.

 

[ox_chap]

South Eastern suggesting if in the “metro” area, use the timetables to identify if a City Beam, as they have AC…

 

[mr_moo]

Sorry but that’s not my forte. Had nothing to do with that manufactures fleet.

I took my regular 720 from near Cambridge to Liverpool Street and back today. Held up absolutely fine - Train was comfortable (temperature wise at least!) both ways. Certainly a little warm, but perfectly acceptable.

 

[Mattplans]

South Eastern suggesting if in the “metro” area, use the timetables to identify if a City Beam, as they have AC…

They're saying a whole bunch of nothing to be honest.

No luck for anyone commuting between Victoria and Orpington/Gravesend. Their finite amount of 707s usually make only limited appearances at Cannon Street on a normal off-peak weekday anyway, and with Thameslink capped at Dartford there are no Air-conditioned trains on the Greenwich line except for the small handful of services usually worked by City Beams.

There may have been set swaps but I'm struggling to find any on RTT. @brad465 might know?

This is only realistic advice for Sidcup/Hayes line commuters. Absence of 707s at Grove Park and Woolwich Arsenal (and by extension, Bexleyheath), few at Bexleyheath, and of course none at Herne Hill

 

[cheekybifta]

Conwy valley line closed all day tomorrow. Will seem odd to many when it's been running perfect (an assumption based on RTT) for the last two days while it's been roasting and locally, it's forecast to be a fair bit cooler tomorrow.

Hotter down towards Blaenau but not above what we've had (at least at the north end of the line) for the last two days.

Reminds me of something last winter, when the trains were running during snowfall that crippled the roads, then were preemptively cancelled a few days later for predicted snowfall that never really materialised.

 

[Russel]

Conwy valley line closed all day tomorrow. Will seem odd to many when it's been running perfect (an assumption based on RTT) for the last two days while it's been roasting and locally, it's forecast to be a fair bit cooler tomorrow.

Hotter down towards Blaenau but not above what we've had (at least at the north end of the line) for the last two days.

Reminds me of something last winter, when the trains were running during snowfall that crippled the roads, then were preemptively cancelled a few days later for predicted snowfall that never really materialised.

Certainly does seem odd, I've just looked at the weather for Betws Y Coed tomorrow and can see a maximum of 28, which while hot, isn't unusual.

I wonder if there is another reason behind it?

 

[brad465]

They're saying a whole bunch of nothing to be honest.

No luck for anyone commuting between Victoria and Orpington/Gravesend. Their finite amount of 707s usually make only limited appearances at Cannon Street on a normal off-peak weekday anyway, and with Thameslink capped at Dartford there are no Air-conditioned trains on the Greenwich line except for the small handful of services usually worked by City Beams.

There may have been set swaps but I'm struggling to find any on RTT. @brad465 might know?

This is only realistic advice for Sidcup/Hayes line commuters. Absence of 707s at Grove Park and Woolwich Arsenal (and by extension, Bexleyheath), few at Bexleyheath, and of course none at Herne Hill

No idea I'm afraid, there are not a lot of alternative options for 707s beyond where they already dominate. The only way to make them appear more is to short-form some trains so units go and takeover other services, but this of course risks overcrowding. Networkers are not disastrous because of their plentiful windows and decent drafts while moving. 376s are the really bad ones as they have more limited window potential while still not having air con to compensate.

 

[Iskra]

South Eastern suggesting if in the “metro” area, use the timetables to identify if a City Beam, as they have AC…

RealTimeTrains also now shows which trains have AC or not, which is useful in Northern land.

 

[MikeWM]

GN seem to have pulled the Ely-KGX services from tomorrow and a few of the KLN-KGX services, giving basically an hourly service rather than half-hourly.

The Met Office still haven't issued *any* warnings for Friday despite the fact the models are continuing to show it to be the warmest day of this heatwave for the eastern side of the country. I'm really not sure why, unless they know something different from the public forecasts and models. They issued the amber warnings for Monday and Tuesday last Friday morning - ie. 3-4 days in advance - so why there isn't anything for this Friday yet, less than 48 hours away, is very odd.

It seems lots of people and institutions are intending to shut up shop tomorrow (amber/red warnings) but not on Friday (no warnings but looking to be considerably hotter than tomorrow will be in the east), which probably isn't going to go well. You should really look at the models yourself rather than relying on the Met Office, it appears.

I took my regular 720 from near Cambridge to Liverpool Street and back today. Held up absolutely fine - Train was comfortable (temperature wise at least!) both ways. Certainly a little warm, but perfectly acceptable.

720s seem to be set to quite warm in general compared to other stock, at least in my experience. The one I was on Monday evening was a bit warmer than it was outside, the outside being around 24C at the time so I'd guess the interior was 26 or 27C.

 

[45Fox]

Cross country have canned the Cardiff part of Nottingham-Birmingham-Cardiff.
Link:

Travel Information | CrossCountry Trains

www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk

Quote:

It's just about always the first route they abandon.
Even without current heatwave, on some days the service is pretty atrocious; at weekends, particularly on Sundays, it can be totally hit-and-miss whether there's even the vaguest semblance of a service running.

 

[Pnerick81]

Is there more chance of a buckled rail on jointed track rather than welded . Or makes no difference.

I think it’s the humidity that’s going to be the big hindrance for people . Currently looking out of my window and it’s a blanket of fog. The air is thick like paint . But it’s strangely cool at the moment . That’s in the Preston area close to the river ribble

 

[mike57]

The Met Office still haven't issued *any* warnings for Friday despite the fact the models are continuing to show it to be the warmest day of this heatwave for the eastern side of the country. I'm really not sure why, unless they know something different from the public forecasts and models

I also belong to a couple of meteorological special interest groups, and it has certainly been a discussion point on there. There are a number of different forecast models which cover the UK, and they are in broad agreement about Friday and even Saturday being as warm or even warmer in the east. The only real divergence is maximum temperatures, which are all in the 'nasty humid very unpleasant' range but vary by maybe 2-3C and the possibility of thunderstorms breaking out again.

The Metoffice warnings come in for a lot of criticism for the very reason you have stated. Anybody who just relied on the warning would be saying "OK Wednesday and Thursday are not good days to venture out on the train, but Friday will be cooler, there isnt even a yellow warning" My own view is inaccurate or misleading warnings are actually worse than no warning system. I realise forecasting is not a precise art, but all the signals are there, same as today and tomorrow, and have been for at least 24 hours.

 

[Brum900]

It's just about always the first route they abandon.
Even without current heatwave, on some days the service is pretty atrocious; at weekends, particularly on Sundays, it can be totally hit-and-miss whether there's even the vaguest semblance of a service running.

Exactly, any excuse. They did the same to the consecutive 17:45 18:45 and 19:50 on the last Friday in May. It was the last time I will book XC from Cardiff, I ended up on the National Express.

 

[dk1]

I took my regular 720 from near Cambridge to Liverpool Street and back today. Held up absolutely fine - Train was comfortable (temperature wise at least!) both ways. Certainly a little warm, but perfectly acceptable.

Only issue I know about the 720s is the fact they do leak a little into the saloon during extremely wet weather as opposed to 390s which seem to do it when the air-con is providing excessive cooling.

 

[TheManOnThe172]

The Met Office still haven't issued *any* warnings for Friday

The Met Office are very slipshod about weather warnings - which is irresponsible given the weight that people put on them.

Schools open or shut, hospitals and transport services curtail srrvices or not, events are cancelled or not.

Bur the Met Office often leave warnings unmodified once issued. From what i can see, the current Orange and Red warnings havent been updated for geographical extent or diration aince 1030 Mon - nearly 48 hour ago.

When i tried to persuade the Met Office that warnings needed more frequent updating to reflect xhanging forecats, their answer was that it takes a lot of human input to specify a warning. Not really acceptable when the warnings have so much consequence.

 

[dk1]

53 cancellations have been announced here on Greater Anglia but these are confined to Great Eastern & West Anglia services.

It appears to be business as usual on Regional and Intercity.

 

[rmHawk765]

Very strange indeed. Train moved ages ago. Units sitting in depots ready to go. Maybe the drivers are displaced ?

That surely wouldn't necessitate cancelling all trains on a busy London commuter line for 5 hours conveniently including the entire evening peak...

If it was really that difficult to run to Moorgate they could have at least run to Ally Pally or Bowes Park so interchanges would be possible.

 

[stephen rp]

It will mean aircon (where it exists) has to work harder. The higher amount of moisture in the air will require more latent heat to be taken out to bring the temperature down, and it will add to the amount of condensate produced.

And it has to work harder the more bodies on board.

At 40 degrees the aircon on Venice trams couldn't cope with a packed tram, with people fainting. I wondered why an old bus (with opening windows) rolled up at the tram stop.

 

[WillC]

They've begun to get folks off and walk all the passengers back to Drayton Park.

The Met Office are very slipshod about weather warnings - which is irresponsible given the weight that people put on them.

Schools open or shut, hospitals and transport services curtail srrvices or not, events are cancelled or not.

Bur the Met Office often leave warnings unmodified once issued. From what i can see, the current Orange and Red warnings havent been updated for geographical extent or diration aince 1030 Mon - nearly 48 hour ago.

When i tried to persuade the Met Office that warnings needed more frequent updating to reflect xhanging forecats, their answer was that it takes a lot of human input to specify a warning. Not really acceptable when the warnings have so much consequence.

I think the Meto warnings are a mess. There are so many yellow warnings in winter - in effect just a bit of heavy rain, or quite windy - it’s pointless, and just serves to create a background hum of fear. I’d get rid. Amber usually means something of interest or possible impact, worth knowing about but carry on with your life. When they ’go red’ the impact is huge. Public bodies must be seen to ‘do something’, and these days they do - schools closed, trains cancelled etc. The problem is that forecasting is, well, forecasting. The red area might change a bit, the heat might not be quite as bad etc. But once released, there’s no going back because of the system inertia. And of course the media love to drum up a crisis.

What might be helpful to us all is to have published plans for likely scenarios, e.g. when it is over a heat threshold then ToCs all run half as many trains, so we know it’s coming and what to expect. What we have now seems to be rapid cycles of warning, media hysteria, independent and sometimes chaotic plans being implemented.

I think the primary problem is that humans don’t do risk planning well. it’s the plane crash scenario that we don’t want to imagine, but which we live with every day.

 

[Failed Unit]

That surely wouldn't necessitate cancelling all trains on a busy London commuter line for 5 hours conveniently including the entire evening peak...

If it was really that difficult to run to Moorgate they could have at least run to Ally Pally or Bowes Park so interchanges would be possible.

We have a whole thread on GN's inability to recover after disruption

This one does fail the "sniff" test. Failure of a train on the NCL normally results in diversion to Kings Cross, then running empty to start the return working at Finsbury Park. Normally when this is implemented they may have a couple of cancellations but the service generally recovers fairly quickly. This process has worked even in the days of the 313.

 

[Bald Rick]

Is there more chance of a buckled rail on jointed track rather than welded . Or makes no difference.

Yes and no.

With the same high rail temperature, and same track conditions (track curvature, stability, ballast condition, usage), jointed track (especially bullhead rail) is more likely to buckle than continuoisly welded rail (CWR)

However to counter this, mitigations are implemented for jointed track at a lower rail temperature.

 

[AndrewE]

Yes and no.

With the same high rail temperature, and same track conditions (track curvature, stability, ballast condition, usage), jointed track (especially bullhead rail) is more likely to buckle than continuoisly welded rail (CWR)

However to counter this, mitigations are implemented for jointed track at a lower rail temperature.

my memory is that when CWR became widespread there were incidents of buckling and it was realised that heavier sleepers and big ballast shoulders were needed - in addition to "breather"rail joints.

Whereas jointed rail has lots of joints all of which which can "flex" longitudinally.