Heating on CrossCountry trains from Newport to Gloucester

[paulfoel]

Or lack of it...

Pretty much every day get the 0655 from Newport to Gloucester with CrossCountry. Its a lottery whether the heating is on or off. 90% of the time its freezing on there 10% of the time its not. The difference is so great, you can tell when you board whether its an on or off day.

I've complained to CC. Got differing answers. Contact the train manager (seems to be a general get out answer this one). I've also been told its set at the depot before the train leaves and they have no access on train.

Its not practical to contact the train manager EVERY day. Its just crazy.

To me it looks like a case of can't be bothered/forget to turn on every day.

Anyone got any suggestions?

 

[DarloRich]

get a better coat

I would complain and keep complaining - and ask the gaurd

 

[Starmill]

Check all of the coaches too, the heating might be working elsewhere.

Otherwise as above, mention it when you see the guard, tweet and email where possible.

Disappointing but I'm not sure what else there is to do I'm afraid.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Being an old-fashioned Sprinter/Turbo based DMU with a fancy body, does the Class 170 just heat using waste engine heat? If it's just come off the depot, like a cold car in the morning it perhaps hasn't had chance to warm up.

 

[work-traveller]

Cross Country between Manchester and Stafford - I've frequently found that one or more coach will be like an ice house, whilst the adjoining carriage is pleasantly warm. This suggests that there is a fault with the train and it is not a matter of depot settings.

Likewise with London Midland services, it's variable whether you end up in a warm or a cool carriage.

Only time I found myself being too warm on a train in this country was on the Fort William sleeper, where there are working (mostly?) temperature controls in each cabin.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Cross Country between Manchester and Stafford - I've frequently found that one or more coach will be like an ice house, whilst the adjoining carriage is pleasantly warm. This suggests that there is a fault with the train and it is not a matter of depot settings.

They are different train types on these services...

Likewise with London Midland services, it's variable whether you end up in a warm or a cool carriage.

Which trains? I find the Desiros to be very consistent.

Only time I found myself being too warm on a train in this country was on the Fort William sleeper, where there are working (mostly?) temperature controls in each cabin.

Though the blown air heating in the seated coach (a system different to anything I've seen on any other Mk2) has a job keeping up.

 

[DarloRich]

Which trains? I find the Desiros to be very consistent.

The 150's aren't - Well I suppose they are, you roast you leg sitting near the heater and freeze anywhere else

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Will CC train crews even have access to the thermostat or will that be something that has to be set at the depot?

 

[azz7008]

The XC's I travel on to Leicester are usually too hot, yet if you catch a Stansted Airport service it's just right.

 

[BestWestern]

Which trains? I find the Desiros to be very consistent.

Oh yes. Consistently freezing! And bloody noisy with it...

If a Turbostar is anything like a 158 they'll be very little that the crew can do, other than *possibly* reset the aircon system or similar. Generally this heating/cooling malarkey is either on or off. The temperature setting and general health of the equipment is an issue for the depot. Having said that, I've never worked a 170 so have absolutely no idea if they are, indeed, anything like a 158!

 

[sprinterguy]

Being an old-fashioned Sprinter/Turbo based DMU with a fancy body, does the Class 170 just heat using waste engine heat? If it's just come off the depot, like a cold car in the morning it perhaps hasn't had chance to warm up.

I'm not sure how the heating works on 170s, but as this unit does indeed come off Cardiff Canton depot immediately before working this service, the lack of time to warm up would seem likely to be a major factor.

I can't recall more than one or two instances of travelling on a Crosscountry or London Midland train (the two TOCs I travel with most frequently) where the heating wasn't working, although I do appreciate that having an engine out on the 170 units, as happens from time to time, results in heating issues for the carriage affected. More frequently I have encountered air conditioning failures in hot weather, or the air conditioning being over-enthusiastic in cold weather!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oh yes. Consistently freezing! And bloody noisy with it...

Consistently perfect for me. You can put a coat on. I think you would object if I stripped off!

I do agree it's too noisy, though. That's a ducting/outlet design issue - noisy airflow is caused by air turbulence.

 

[BestWestern]

Consistently perfect for me. You can put a coat on. I think you would object if I stripped off!

I do agree it's too noisy, though. That's a ducting/outlet design issue - noisy airflow is caused by air turbulence.

Unless your user name is very deceptive, you are probably right!

I find the Desiro HVAC to be a particularly poor design, surprising as the Desiro (as much as I don't particularly enjoy travelling on them) is clearly a very competently built bit of kit. The noise is excessive, and the distribution of the chilled air also seems very patchy.

 

[EssexGonzo]

I wouldn't worry about it working too well right now. Come a warm spring morning in April when it's marginal whether a coat is needed or not but you wore one "because it looks like rain" and you've had a brisk walk to the station and are "slightly" warm, it'll be blowing full blast, especially in the door lobbies where there are no windows to open.

Well it will in an AGA 321.

 

[paulfoel]

Will CC train crews even have access to the thermostat or will that be something that has to be set at the depot?

I've had both answers from CC! So who knows?

 

[ainsworth74]

Will CC train crews even have access to the thermostat or will that be something that has to be set at the depot?

On Voyagers I believe the Train Manager can fiddle with the thermostat or at least has some sort of control over the heating/cooling.

I was on a Voyager from Euston to Chester once and the carriage I was in had the heat on near full blast despite it being a warm summers day. Cue most people slowly melting (I would have moved but it was a very busy service). The TM appeared in the carriage, had a look around in great confusion then hurried down the other end and into the vestibule. A few seconds later there was a thunk and suddenly gloriously cold air began pouring into the carriage from the ceiling vents.

Obviously that was VT rather than XC but seeing as they both use Voyagers I would assume it's the same on XC.

But on the route in question on this thread we're talking about 170s and on those I'm not sure!

 

[BestWestern]

On a XC set whatever nobs or buttons he adjusted will probably have broken! It appears to be an insurmountable challenge even to manage a single coach with a full compliment of working light bulbs...

 

[linkyork]

Trains used to be cancelled for no heating so it was a priority to fix it but then came a instruction that passengers would prefer a cold train than no train at all.
Fixing no longer a priority.

 

[Jonfun]

On a Voyager the air con units (2 per coach) aim for 20 degrees and can be altered to +/- 3 degrees manually. But - and it's a big but - that relies on the unit working properly in the first place. If it's pumping out mega hot or cold air because it's broken then you can sit there and turn it up or down as much as you want but it won't make an ounce of difference. Sometimes turning it off and back on again will help. Sometimes going to the affected vehicle and resetting it there will help. Sometimes calling a fitter will help. Otherwise it'll end up being repaired when it goes home to bed.

170s I'm not familiar with but I understand it's a simpler system with more limited control. But again, if it's broken, there's not much anyone other than a ftter can do about it, unfortunately.

 

[Spankthemonkey]

Will CC train crews even have access to the thermostat or will that be something that has to be set at the depot?

I believe 170's have 3 settings "winter, normal and summer", which yes, a guard should be able to access.

 

[paulfoel]

Trains used to be cancelled for no heating so it was a priority to fix it but then came a instruction that passengers would prefer a cold train than no train at all.
Fixing no longer a priority.

Do you know what I think thats may be the case? its broken and they've got away with no-one moaning so why bother?

 

[tsr]

I believe 170's have 3 settings "winter, normal and summer", which yes, a guard should be able to access.

If it's anything like 171s, that's correct.

The big problems I can foresee with heating on any early morning service operated by a Turbostar are pretty much as above: it may have been sitting in a yard/siding with engines off for some time, in which case it can take between 10 and 20 minutes to warm up to the desired temperature. Coupled with any incorrect settings on the air con body-end cupboard switches, or any isolated engines, this could make life pretty uncomfortable. Only a fitter can really try to adjust beyond "summer/normal/winter". It should usually be patently obvious to any competent guard if a Turbostar is having engine issues (affecting aircon or not), but it sounds unduly alarming if you tell people about it, so they may have to be quizzed a bit if it's not actually delaying the train. Beyond that, it sounds like there may be an aircon/HVAC system failure. It's usually fairly good on the 171s, but sounds like 170s have a bit more of a struggle if it's cold.

 

[TEW]

Unless your user name is very deceptive, you are probably right!

I find the Desiro HVAC to be a particularly poor design, surprising as the Desiro (as much as I don't particularly enjoy travelling on them) is clearly a very competently built bit of kit. The noise is excessive, and the distribution of the chilled air also seems very patchy.

You get cold air through the ceiling, and hot air at your feet. It doesn't always seem to work out that well, especially when the two are fighting each other to try and get the right temperature! The fact that the heater encroaches on your foot space in the window seats means your feet end up getting particularly hot in the Winter.

 

[trainophile]

I've sometimes wondered whether the guard saying he has no access to the heating controls, is so that he doesn't get stuck in the middle of a situation where some passengers say it needs to be turned up, and others that it needs to be turned down, maybe related to how they are dressed that day.

If he says he cannot alter the heating then people just have to accept it.

 

[FordFocus]

170s have 2 HVAC modules fitted above each doorway vestibule. TBH I'm not sure if the floor heating system comes off waste engine heat or is electrical with the capability of cross feeding from other coaches (later Turbostar models) in the event of engine failure. I'm fairly sure the HVAC unit can blow a bit of warm air and circulate the air but it's not powerful enough on it's own to heat the entire carriage.

There are 3 settings as mentioned. You can fiddle with the air con on our units and place it into cooling test modes if the thermostat breaks but it's a hard and lengthy workaround. Only remedy for increasing the heating is to make sure it's in 'Winter' mode.

 

[paulfoel]

Well today same train same guard. Pretty cold in the carriage I was in again.

But three times the guard announced the rear carriage was warm, and the front one he'd reset the heating. To be fair, it did get a little warmer.

At least something is getting done.

Although, I think it confirms as some have said:-

1) Some carriages the heating is broke and the TOC know this.
2) Guard generally can't be bothered to fiddle anyway.

All comes down the fact IMHO that they know they can get away with it. Like someone said, if people prefer trains not to be cancelled due to no heating then don't worry about it. Same as if theres a temp problem - why should the guard bother himself.

Same old same old in this country - no-one complains so nothing happens.

 

[Minilad]

All the guard can do is change the setting. Either winter normal or summer. They have no control over the temperature any further than that. This train has just come off Canton so hasn't had chance to warm up yet and differing coaches can warm up at different speeds.
Generally speaking our 170s tend to be OK heater wise but when a unit is stabled away from a main depot overnight there would be no chance to work on the heating if it had failed the previous day. A particular coach could also feel warmer with more passengers in it.
I think most guards don't like to get into the too hot too cold debate because you can't please everyone all the time. But if the heating isn't working then apart from changing the setting there isn't much they can do anyway.

 

[paulfoel]

All the guard can do is change the setting. Either winter normal or summer. They have no control over the temperature any further than that. This train has just come off Canton so hasn't had chance to warm up yet and differing coaches can warm up at different speeds.
Generally speaking our 170s tend to be OK heater wise but when a unit is stabled away from a main depot overnight there would be no chance to work on the heating if it had failed the previous day. A particular coach could also feel warmer with more passengers in it.
I think most guards don't like to get into the too hot too cold debate because you can't please everyone all the time. But if the heating isn't working then apart from changing the setting there isn't much they can do anyway.

Thanks for the info. I get on at newport so its some time from cardiff/canton. And it still hasnt warmed up by gloucester (50 mins later).

Appreciate about the too hot/too cold thing but this is most definitely not borderline temps here!

Still think that there appear to be a lot of carriages where the heaters just do not or do not work well enough. I think CC know about this and just hope no-one complains.

I've been told once or twice (via twitter) to ask the guard if there is a 'warmer part of the train'. Always struck me as weird thing to say - its a train connected together why would one part be warmer or colder?

Cynic part of me wonders whether they know, like I said, that carriages have no heating but fudge it by using one broken, two working heating carriages. Possible?

In this circumstance, I guess the 3rd carriage would get some heat from the other two. (But not enough in current cold weather). And of course, anyone complains move them to the heated carriage.

Am I totally off the mark here???

 

[sprinterguy]

I've been told once or twice (via twitter) to ask the guard if there is a 'warmer part of the train'. Always struck me as weird thing to say - its a train connected together why would one part be warmer or colder?

Heating is specific to each individual carriage, if the heating has failed in one then it does not necessarily mean that it has failed in the others. There will be little to no heat dissipation from one carriage to another on a class 170 train, which have a pair of sliding doors either side of the inter-vehicle connection in order to stifle noise, draughts and cold air entering the carriage from the vehicle connectors.

London Midland undertake the maintenance on Crosscountry's class 170 trains on their behalf, and Crosscountry have absolutely no interest in "fudging it" to send out faulty trains as you suggest.

 

[ComUtoR]

But three times the guard announced the rear carriage was warm, and the front one he'd reset the heating.

2) Guard generally can't be bothered to fiddle anyway.