StephenHunter
Established Member
Assuming this is built, would it be possible to run IETs into there? I am thinking that you could do Heathrow to Cardiff and other destinations on a through ticketing arrangement.
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Heathrow Western Access - InterCity potential
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coppercapped
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You can already buy through tickets from Heathrow to Cardiff, the two fastest choices would be via either Paddington or (pre-Covid) the Railair coach link via Reading.
To the first part of your question, yes IETs would physically fit the route but would be unable to use the lines east of the Airport to Airport Junction as they are not yet fitted with the ETCS signalling equipment used in the tunnels.
Even if the Western Access were to be built it is very unlikely that fast services to Cardiff (or indeed anywhere else west of Reading) would routed through Heathrow because of the increase in end-to-end (e.g., Cardiff-Paddington) journey times. The service offered would most likely be a through suburban service to Slough, Maidenhead, Twyford and Reading as these areas have inadequate public transport connections to Heathrow. There is a small but finite chance that some services could be extended to Oxford or Newbury but no destinations further away could support a train frequency that would be competitive. If you have to wait for an hour for a train a car could get you past Swindon...
If the start or destination is Cardiff, why not fly from Bristol...? It's closer.
To the first part of your question, yes IETs would physically fit the route but would be unable to use the lines east of the Airport to Airport Junction as they are not yet fitted with the ETCS signalling equipment used in the tunnels.
Even if the Western Access were to be built it is very unlikely that fast services to Cardiff (or indeed anywhere else west of Reading) would routed through Heathrow because of the increase in end-to-end (e.g., Cardiff-Paddington) journey times. The service offered would most likely be a through suburban service to Slough, Maidenhead, Twyford and Reading as these areas have inadequate public transport connections to Heathrow. There is a small but finite chance that some services could be extended to Oxford or Newbury but no destinations further away could support a train frequency that would be competitive. If you have to wait for an hour for a train a car could get you past Swindon...
If the start or destination is Cardiff, why not fly from Bristol...? It's closer.
Possibly because there are no flights from Bristol to Johannesburg?
swt_passenger
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I can’t believe Reading XC would ever happen while they’re still running diesels.
Likewise EWR - I’d be surprised if they even reached Didcot or Reading on their latest announcements…
coppercapped
Established Member
So? There also are no flights from Heathrow to Venice.
BA fly multiple flights every day to Venice... but that's irrelevant. There are no long haul flights from anywhere in southern England except Heathrow/Gatwick, so people have no choice but to go via them... or they use KLM or similar to interchange somewhere else
coppercapped
Established Member
Odd about the flights to Venice - my Skyscanner fu can't be very strong today... 
Even if there is no choice apart from Heathrow or Gatwick for long haul flights, the fact remains that total flows to Heathrow for long distance flights are not sufficient to make it worthwhile to route prime fast services to and from London via Heathrow as the additional time would make the end-to-end journey less competitive.
I would suggest that extending Crossrail or HEx services west of Heathrow on a fifteen or twenty minute frequency to Reading to make connections there to 'all over the place' and serving at least Slough and Maidenhead on the way would be the way forward.
Anyway, I have the feeling that this has all been discussed in earlier threads.
Even if there is no choice apart from Heathrow or Gatwick for long haul flights, the fact remains that total flows to Heathrow for long distance flights are not sufficient to make it worthwhile to route prime fast services to and from London via Heathrow as the additional time would make the end-to-end journey less competitive.
I would suggest that extending Crossrail or HEx services west of Heathrow on a fifteen or twenty minute frequency to Reading to make connections there to 'all over the place' and serving at least Slough and Maidenhead on the way would be the way forward.
Anyway, I have the feeling that this has all been discussed in earlier threads.
EastisECML
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If Reading to London ever gets a new line it should probably go through Heathrow.
I agree, there's no way it would ever make sense to send long distance trains to Heathrow. GWR don't even make much of the connection possibilities, so I assume they don't think it's much of a market eitherOdd about the flights to Venice - my Skyscanner fu can't be very strong today...
Even if there is no choice apart from Heathrow or Gatwick for long haul flights, the fact remains that total flows to Heathrow for long distance flights are not sufficient to make it worthwhile to route prime fast services to and from London via Heathrow as the additional time would make the end-to-end journey less competitive.
I would suggest that extending Crossrail or HEx services west of Heathrow on a fifteen or twenty minute frequency to Reading to make connections there to 'all over the place' and serving at least Slough and Maidenhead on the way would be the way forward.
Anyway, I have the feeling that this has all been discussed in earlier threads.
StephenHunter
Established Member
BA have done combined Rail+Air tickets in the past.
I'd trial an hourly fast line call at Hayes and Harlington for a semi-fast GW service (using the mainline, not directly running to Heathrow). Obviously it would be pick up only westbound, set down only eastbound.
Very easy cross-platform interchange onto a Heathrow bound Crossrail train for those traveling from the Thames Valley and further west.
Increased Heathrow rail connectivity for the Thames Valley for free, what more could you want?
Post edited to clarify my proposal.
Very easy cross-platform interchange onto a Heathrow bound Crossrail train for those traveling from the Thames Valley and further west.
Increased Heathrow rail connectivity for the Thames Valley for free, what more could you want?
Post edited to clarify my proposal.
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IETs / 80x fleet do have shadow ETCS fitted, just not fully installed. They'd obviously need route clearing though.
Hayes is on the wrong side of any Western access link.
I believe that the poster is suggesting this to demonstrate viability of the proposal by using the existing eastern access link and rail services.
That's correct. I've also edited my previous post for clarification.
Ah I see. I don’t think Heathrow Express will want any reduction in the time saving given they’ve already got a competitor that doesn’t take much longer, is substantially cheaper and will in the near future offer much better connections in the form of TfL Rail / Elizabeth line.
Otherwise I’m not sure there’s a huge benefit - there’s already the GWR Didcot service, the second stop of which is Hayes. That only offers up maybe a 7-8 minute time saving. There’s also not much capacity prior to Heathrow Junction so it would be a tight squeeze to fit something in juggled with the 125/110 mph running. Hayes to me isn’t big enough to justify a main line stop.
It doesn't need to be an advertised stop on the departure boards at Paddington. Being pick up only westbound/set down only eastbound at Hayes & Harlington should stop it from being used as an alternative to HEx.
It would be a faster and easier connection from Reading, Oxford and further west without any need for extra infrastructure.
It's not an idea for the benefit of those coming from London - they already have HEx and TfL Rail, but those traveling to Heathrow from the west.
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Ah sorry totally mis-understood what you were saying. Okay I understand that slightly more although it would be irregular so you’d have to pick one service group and put it on that. Everyone else would need to change at Paddington or Reading anyway which somewhat defeats the point.
There's a clear risk of delayed train departures from Hayes and Harlington due to passengers with lots of luggage, so an infrequent service would be a sensible starting point for a trial.
I think that if a new tunnel ever happened, an underground station would make sense. But then, would it have come from OOC? Two fast stops? What is the role of OOC with a fast tunnel - etc etc etc- I think it is unlikely.
As for today, if HEx was removed, then fast calls for Slough might still be an issue of contention if that service carried on. One idea might be to throw in a Maidenhead/Twyford call if doable, on the ex-HEx train behind the Slough. Not sure if it would mitigate enough.
For now, I think a higher service at H&H for the Heathrow connection from the west (hopefully reinstated to Oxford and maybe higher frequency in time on Crossrail) is as good as it'll get. Many will change at OOC for Heathrow from the London direction (if on a Crossrail OOC terminator + HS2/LO), and Ealing from the tube, so the spread will be limited re: Hayes. Faster patterns from Reading would of course help, but need to be on the reliefs.
As for today, if HEx was removed, then fast calls for Slough might still be an issue of contention if that service carried on. One idea might be to throw in a Maidenhead/Twyford call if doable, on the ex-HEx train behind the Slough. Not sure if it would mitigate enough.
For now, I think a higher service at H&H for the Heathrow connection from the west (hopefully reinstated to Oxford and maybe higher frequency in time on Crossrail) is as good as it'll get. Many will change at OOC for Heathrow from the London direction (if on a Crossrail OOC terminator + HS2/LO), and Ealing from the tube, so the spread will be limited re: Hayes. Faster patterns from Reading would of course help, but need to be on the reliefs.
Good question. It's a pretty straight shot along the M4 so I'd think the coach would win. If there was a faster service to Hayes, perhaps another scenario - but any service calling at Hayes would also call at Maidenhead and Slough minimum (Twyford too most likely) so I can't see it.
OOC might inherit a HEx type service which would be ~9-10 mins to T2/3. Might end up being a case of quicker to stay on a train west of Reading (vs coach) e.g. if coming from Bristol or Oxford, but if you were at Reading itself already, you might just do the coach for a one-seat ride.
It will be broadly the same, perhaps a little quicker by train if you get HEx from OOC. But if you are already on the train coming from west of Reading, then not having to wait for the coach connection will mean it is much quicker via OOC.
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