Heathrow to Paddington & Freedom Pass

[michael1938]

Recently, I travelled from Heathrow to Paddington. I was told that my Freedom Pass was not acceptable and charged (for the one-way trip) just over £19. This is over £1 per mile!

I then had to travel from Paddington to Pewsey in Wiltshire and was told that yes, my Freedom Pass was OK and my fare was reduced by £1 !!!!!

Needless to say, I am utterly disgusted by the blatant greed of our rail operators.

(I am 70 years of age and partly disabled)

 

[Phoenix]

Recently, I travelled from Heathrow to Paddington. I was told that my Freedom Pass was not acceptable and charged (for the one-way trip) just over £19. This is over £1 per mile!

I then had to travel from Paddington to Pewsey in Wiltshire and was told that yes, my Freedom Pass was OK and my fare was reduced by £1 !!!!!

Needless to say, I am utterly disgusted by the blatant greed of our rail operators.

(I am 70 years of age and partly disabled)

That is indeed quite disgraceful and even with whatever the economic state is at the moment there is no point running away from promises made such as your freedom pass.
Honestly I do not know much about these matter's but from a outside view from what ever angle you look at this it's simply criminal.

 

[glynn80]

Recently, I travelled from Heathrow to Paddington. I was told that my Freedom Pass was not acceptable and charged (for the one-way trip) just over £19. This is over £1 per mile!

I then had to travel from Paddington to Pewsey in Wiltshire and was told that yes, my Freedom Pass was OK and my fare was reduced by £1 !!!!!

Needless to say, I am utterly disgusted by the blatant greed of our rail operators.

(I am 70 years of age and partly disabled)

You were charged the correct fare as the line between Airport Junction (just past Hayes & Harlington) and Heathrow Airport is owned not by Network Rail (a public owned body) but BAA and they charge on a fares structure seperate to the UK Rail Network. They accept some railcards but not freedom passes. You could if you had not travelled on the faster Heathrow Express ,used your Freedom Pass and payed nothing on the slower Heathrow Connect between Paddington and Hayes and then bought a seperate ticket between Hayes and Heathrow. Or if again you hadn't wished to pay at all you could of used your Freedom Pass for free the whole way on the London Undeground to Heathrow, all 3 of Heathrow's LU stations are wheelchair accessible if your disability affects you in that way. Really there was no need for you to catch Heathrow Express unless you had a flight closing in the next 15 minutes.

 

[me123]

Hello, Michael! I've done some research on this Freedom Pass; First of all the Freedom Pass is not valid on Heathrow Express at all. So he was right to charge you . The fare he charged you was the correct fare for the service: remember Heathrow Express is not part of the National Rail System, and fares are therefore not regulated. I agree that the ticket prices are steep, however they are in full control of their service, including prices, and they do need to make money somehow. From what I understand, they offer a lot on their service!

Again, Pewsey is outwith the area, but you can use the Freedom Pass for part of that journey, hence why you only got a small reduction on that fare.

If you want savings, you should maybe consider purchasing a Disabled Person's Railcard or a Senior Railcard? These can probably get you better savings when travelling outwith the London area. However, you have to pay for this card. As much as I agree that it is wrong, you can make significant savings of you travel frequently outwith the area of your Freedom Pass. If you are able to apply for a Disabled Persons Railcard, this would probably be better value for yourself, and has fewer restrictions. And contrary to previous information, Railcards are valid on Heathrow Express.

I've enclosed some links that may be useful to you

Freedom Pass and Map
Senior Railcard and Disabled Persons Railcard

PS: I am a student, and I do appreciate that rail travel is expensive! Fares do seem to rise astronomically and, in some places, these rises are wholly unacceptable.

 

[michael1938]

Hi Chaps,
Thanks for your encouraging remarks. I have now bought a senior citizen pass - trust its going to save me money!
I maintain my disgust at the various rail companies, they are only based on greed. However, there is nothing I can do about it..............................

 

[Darandio]

Hi Chaps,
Thanks for your encouraging remarks. I have now bought a senior citizen pass - trust its going to save me money!
I maintain my disgust at the various rail companies, they are only based on greed. However, there is nothing I can do about it..............................

The way of the world mate in this current climate, not just railway companies although they may have been doing it longer than others.

 

[Matt Taylor]

I maintain my disgust at the various rail companies, they are only based on greed

Which is what capitalism and the free market is based on, to get rid of the greed we proably need to vote in a socialist/communist administration (not that I am advocating such a radical move).

BAA are not really a rail operator, cynics among the aviation enthusiast community would say they are not airport operators either-they simply operate extended shopping malls with runways! They are entitled to charge whatever they want for people to use their train service and seeing as TfL (and the borough councils it represents) have no wish to financially support the service BAA cannot be expected to allow freedom passes or travelcards to be valid on their trains to and from the airport.



Matt

 

[A60K]

That is indeed quite disgraceful and even with whatever the economic state is at the moment there is no point running away from promises made such as your freedom pass.
Honestly I do not know much about these matter's but from a outside view from what ever angle you look at this it's simply criminal.

As others have stated below the real situation, as stated in all the terms and conditions, it that Freedom Passes have never been valid on Heathrow Express. No promises have been 'run away from' and it's not 'simply criminal'. If, as you state, you "don't know much about this" why post something that seems to be guesswork and would cause a lot of hassle for a passenger that took your opinion as fact?

I'm sure you'll appreciate that revenue protection can be a difficult job for staff at the best of times. It really doesn't help do a job if such inaccurate postings are made on what is a relatively well-informed (most of the time!) forum. How would you like to be doing your job and someone who doesn't know or bother to look up the terms describe what you're doing as criminal?

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but please reflect and think what impact such emotional language might have on front-line staff in the future. I'm happy to discuss via PM to avoid taking this thread off-topic.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Am I alone in not seeing the original issue as outrageous? Heathrow Express is a premium express service, run without public subsidy; there is a cheaper option in Heathrow Connect and a free option on the Piccadilly Line. The Freedom Pass is a publically funded pass, which I am not against in any way, but you wouldn't expect to travel free in first class (a different kind of premium service) and expect the taxpayer to pay. I don't agree that the rail companies are showing "blatant greed" (after all it isn't the most profitable business to be in generally is it)... someone somewhere has to pay for all "free" journeys made using concessionary passes, and it shouldn't be down to the taxpayer to pay if someone decides to use a premium service. A60K is quite right, this isn't "criminal", particularly since Heathrow Express has never been free to holders of these passes and has never claimed to be.

This isn't meant to be ageist; I am not opposed to senior citizens having freedom passes and similar schemes at all. But Heathrow Express does not run under subsidy and needs to make a profit, that isn't greed, it is business. I don't believe the burden should fall to the taxpayer when other cheaper/free options are available.

I will now put my tin hat on, as I seem to be in the minority here... (or is it the "silent majority?")

 

[richa2002]

Well I support you 'Royston Vasey'.

 

[TEW]

I also support you.

 

[Mojo]

I have to say I agree as well. After all it is part of the Conditions of any pass to know where it is valid (or not).

 

[me123]

It's hard to be original; I agree with all the above. That's one of the reasons i suggested a Senior/Disabled Railcard. Certainly "free" services should not be extended to First Class and "premium" services; there are so many things that need taxpayers money, health and education being my personal "top priorities", and in the current economical condition that is more important than allowing some people to travel to Heathrow faster and cheaper.

I think I should also make the point, Michael, that you were charged a "penalty" fare on Heathrow Express for purchase onboard. Now, I'll admit that it is steep, as is the £3 cheaper "buy-before-you-board" fare, but it is useful information if you plan to use HEx again in the future.

 

[kestrel]

As someone that works for them (HEx) i can agree with some of the above,

I get fed up with people moaning about the high prices that we charge, you have to remember that we are charging for a premium service ie 'speed' (15min journey time) our main competitor is the 'black cab' (not LUL) that charge something like £50+ to Pad plus they'll want a tip on top, they also take over 40mins (much longer in the rush hours),

Our main customer base are businessmen although this is slowly changing with more and more leisure travellers now using us.

The onboard fare is £3 more to try and persaude people to use the machines or tkt offices (or the website) for tkts, remember the journey time is only 15minutes, not alot when the onboard staff have to go through 5 packed carraiges!

There is an alternative which is the heathrow connect far cheaper (£6.90 LHR-PAD) and cards are valid from hayes,the journey time is about 25mins much lesson sundays, or you could bounce about for an hour and get accosted by romanian gypsies for free on LUL (or £4 or less with oyster)

As has been said disabled cards ARE accepted on HEx/HEc as are other cards but these tkts need to be purchased at tkt offices (disabled can be bought onboard, at least the last time i heard!)

 

[yorkie]

Yes, I have to agree it's a premium service and people on free passes shouldn't expect to get it free/cheap when they know they can go free via the Piccadilly line or a low fare on a stopping train.

That is, of course, providing there are sufficient notices advertising the premium nature of the service and the alternatives. I don't know for sure if this is the case though as I never do that journey.

 

[djw1981]

In this case it is not the blatant greed of the rail company, but of the airport (BAA)!

 

[332 > 444]

Yes, I have to agree it's a premium service and people on free passes shouldn't expect to get it free/cheap when they know they can go free via the Piccadilly line or a low fare on a stopping train.

That is, of course, providing there are sufficient notices advertising the premium nature of the service and the alternatives. I don't know for sure if this is the case though as I never do that journey.

We have notices stating what is not valid on our service, the drivers make an announcement stating what is NOT valid on the train and that a ticket can be purchased on-board for a £3 premium.

The fact ive seen people with NR tickets with 'Heathrow Underground' 'Heathrow Bus' means some ticket office staff sell them anything with Heathrow stated and unfortunately we have to charge them the full fare then again it could be they could be trying it on, still they get charged full fare!

Ive had an occasion where the guy wanted to complain as no-one proactively told him the station he walked into wasnt the underground and that there was no gates!

I think the CoC should be more available to the travelling public to avoid instances like this.

 

[djw1981]

What ticket do they use? National 'Rail settlement Plan' ones, underground style ones, or their own style?

 

[Craig]

http://therailticketgallery.fotopic.net/p2745972.html
http://therailticketgallery.fotopic.net/p7857809.html

 

[michael1938]

I appreciate the comments on this thread and can (somewhat) inderstand why they are being made. However, I and many thousands more in similar positions are NOT asking for charity - simply a concession to age and condition which is the fate of us all one day.
Whilst I am certaily in favour of free enterprise, surely a little understanding cannot be out of the question? The ratio of travellers like myself to the "normal" passenger make-up is minimal and would certainly not take the bread from any mouth -corporate or individual.

 

[djw1981]

Many 70 year olds feel they are are perfectly capable without help, so your age cannot be a factor. Your condition of course can be, but the staff at T1-3 and T4 would I am sure have explained the various restrictions. National Rail reports T5 as unstaffed, so you may have a case if boarding there.

The freedom pass website http://www.freedompass.org/whentouse.htm#rail clearly states that it is not valid on Heathrow Express. To make sure, a quick email or phone call may have sufficed http://www.freedompass.org/usefulcontacts.htm Note also from http://www.freedompass.org/documents/FPDFreedomPassv3.pdf that the rail line beyond Hayes and Harlington towards Heathrow is greyed out, meaning that this line is not within the pass. However, as mentioned, the Tube is.

 

[glynn80]

I appreciate the comments on this thread and can (somewhat) inderstand why they are being made. However, I and many thousands more in similar positions are NOT asking for charity - simply a concession to age and condition which is the fate of us all one day.
Whilst I am certaily in favour of free enterprise, surely a little understanding cannot be out of the question? The ratio of travellers like myself to the "normal" passenger make-up is minimal and would certainly not take the bread from any mouth -corporate or individual.

I sympathise with any condition you may have but, you already have 2 completely free routes to Heathrow (Tube and Bus) and one heavily discounted route (Heathrow Connect). The only reason you would ever need to get on Heathrow Express would be if you wanted the 8 minute quicker journey.

The fare from Hayes & Harlington would be as follows:
Adult Single £4.90, Child Single £2.45

Adult Day Return £8.90, Child Day Return £4.45

Adult Return £9.80, Child return £4.95

This is a significant discount on the £19.00 you paid. I would agree with you that any disabled passenger should be allowed to buy on board at no extra cost (which is usually the case on the NR network). However to further subsidise yourself and expect London taxpayers to line the pockets of BAA so disabled passengers can get to their destination 8 minutes quicker would be just a waste of public spending.

 

[djw1981]

The ratio of travellers like myself to the "normal" passenger make-up is minimal and would certainly not take the bread from any mouth -corporate or individual.

Are you suggesting over 60's, or disabled? If the former, then there are many! Just look at the rapid increase in local bus travel since the 'free' pass came in nationwide. It is making a large effect on some transport ofpperatoirs and some councils are saying that they foresee problems trying to fund the scheme year on year.

 

[me123]

I appreciate the comments on this thread and can (somewhat) inderstand why they are being made. However, I and many thousands more in similar positions are NOT asking for charity - simply a concession to age and condition which is the fate of us all one day.
Whilst I am certaily in favour of free enterprise, surely a little understanding cannot be out of the question? The ratio of travellers like myself to the "normal" passenger make-up is minimal and would certainly not take the bread from any mouth -corporate or individual.

I appreciate that there should be a concession to age: we all know how many elderly people die per year because their pension cannot fund heating bills. A helping hand with public transportation can save some people a considerable amount of money to fund this, and other necessities, and luxuries which they have (probably) quite rightly earned.

However, in this case, there was a concession to age on all other options that were available to you. My point is that concessionary travel should not be available on these expensive services. Say 500 people a month were to use the HEx with a concessionary card. This amounts to £8250 a month and £99,000 per year, assuming they get £16.50 for each traveller. (AIUI, they are/should be paid to accept these tickets). £99,000 a year could save many lives on the NHS, could be well spent in education, could fix some rather poor roads...

My point is that I do not support taxpayers money paying for a minority of the population to travel in more comfortable conditions; that is not fair on those who could benefit from the money in one way or another, and not fair to those who earn money, pay tax and cannot afford this service for themselves.

In short, I support concessionary travel provided that premium services are not funded where cheaper alternatives exist, and Heathrow Airport falls into that category.

 

[yorkie]

michael1938 - can you clarify, are you saying that you should be able to travel free on the Express service, in addition to the Underground? Or is your argument about the lack of signs notifying you that HEX is a premium service?

 

[djw1981]

michael1938 - can you clarify, are you saying that you should be able to travel free on the Express service, in addition to the Underground? Or is your argument about the lack of signs notifying you that HEX is a premium service?

I would have thought that if traveling on a concessionary pass which has restrictions, one would check how these restrictions applied to your journey prior to commencing it - by contacting 'freedom pass' reading their website, or asking staff (departing from T5 is about the only reason for not doing the latter).

 

[DavyCrocket]

T5 station is staffed and managed by HEx and BAA people, including sadly, the LUL platforms.

 

[djw1981]

Hmmm National Rail have T123 and T4 as staffed but T5 as unstaffed. Is HEx part of ATOC?

 

[DavyCrocket]

Hmmm National Rail have T123 and T4 as staffed but T5 as unstaffed. Is HEx part of ATOC?

Well there are definatly station and ticket office staff at T5. I've seen and spoken to them!

 

[djw1981]

If only ATOC kept their website accurate.