Heathrow Help Please ?

[Rheilfordd]

I’ve booked a return flight Heathrow to Faro, not worrying too much at the time how we’d get home to Rayleigh on our return, Elizabeth line to Liverpool St obviously.

As the date is getting closer I thought I’d better sort out tickets and get my head round the Heathrow fares malarkey.

We are scheduled to arrive back at Heathrow T5 on Saturday 12th October at 22:45. I now wish I’d checked the train times before booking.

According to National Rail, Greater Anglia and TFL sites, there is a 23:42 Heathrow Express scheduled as the last train to Paddington from T5. That would probably give us just enough time after landing and get us home, although obviously at a premium.

However, Heathrow Express don’t show this train on their web site, suggesting that their last train from T5 is at 23:27. This site’s ticket portal doesn’t offer the 23:42 but tells me to transfer to T2 for the 23:52. This again contradicts Heathrow Express timetable, as they show the 23:27 departure from T5 as the last departure from T2 at 23:32.

I’m now at a total loss as to what tickets to buy, or what train if any, we might catch on our return. A standard return is no good to us if we fail to make the last Liz line at 23:30 that would get us to Liv St.

I’d be happy (not really) to pay the premium for the Heathrow Express at 23:42 if it is running, otherwise a scramble to the piccadilly is the best use of time.

Which if any of the web sites are likely to be correct, or am I being totally dim somewhere in my searching ?

 

[AlterEgo]

I wouldn't be taking the train at that time of night. You only need the smallest delay - a real possibility with last flights of the day - and you will be in a taxi or getting a hotel.

If you insist on travelling home that night, it is better to plan around the Piccadilly line, which runs through the early hours. I think the last train off Liverpool Street for you is 0050 (Sunday). Then, if you do make it earlier, it is a bonus.

 

[Rheilfordd]

I wouldn't be taking the train at that time of night. You only need the smallest delay - a real possibility with last flights of the day - and you will be in a taxi or getting a hotel.

If you insist on travelling home that night, it is better to plan around the Piccadilly line, which runs through the early hours. I think the last train off Liverpool Street for you is 0050 (Sunday). Then, if you do make it earlier, it is a bonus.

Given there’s 2 hours between arrival and our last train from Liv St, It hadn’t crossed my mind there would be a problem.

If the flight’s delayed, I would have to take the Piccadilly and Central line out to Newbury Park and Uber home from there.

I’d still rather know which train is my last one, so assuming we do arrive on time, we know whether we’re sprinting and paying the H Ex ransom, or resigned to the mega tube trip.

Tracking the flight’s recent history it shows a significant number of early arrivals up to 30 mins ahead of schedule, so obviously there’s some slack there. Being an optimist, I’ll bank that as a possibility.

 

[Segedunum]

The issue with Heathrow is that the taxi on arrival can be long and the times recorded on the likes of Flightradar24 will be the time it physically touches down.

BA obviously don't sweat their assets as much as Ryanair (where taking a late flight is basically a guarantee of a delay) but its still rather tight.

 

[W-on-Sea]

The GWR MixingDeck site (https://tickets.gwr.com/gw/en/journeyplanning/mixingdeck) shows the HX at 23:42 as running on 12 October (I searched for a single ticket from Heathrow T5 to Rayleigh).

 

[Rheilfordd]

The GWR MixingDeck site (https://tickets.gwr.com/gw/en/journeyplanning/mixingdeck) shows the HX at 23:42 as running on 12 October (I searched for a single ticket from Heathrow T5 to Rayleigh).

Thanks, that matches TFL, NR and Greater Anglia sites but not Heathrow Express’ own site.

Is it possible that the train operator is wrong and the others correct ? I’d like it to be so obviously.

 

[Watershed]

I would suggest buying your ticket from a retailer that shows the 23:42 departure. If it then doesn't run, and you are delayed or stranded as a result, your itinerary will provide a clear basis for claiming against HEx. There are several retailers that allow you to get fee-free refunds on walk-up tickets (e.g. Ticketyboo, Railsmartr and the GTR sites), so I would suggest using one of them in case you miss the 23:42 and need to take the Piccadilly line. Bear in mind that Ticketyboo and the GTR sites only allow fee-free refunds on uncollected paper tickets.

 

[Rheilfordd]

I would suggest buying your ticket from a retailer that shows the 23:42 departure. If it then doesn't run, and you are delayed or stranded as a result, your itinerary will provide a clear basis for claiming against HEx. There are several retailers that allow you to get fee-free refunds on walk-up tickets (e.g. Ticketyboo, Railsmartr and the GTR sites), so I would suggest using one of them in case you miss the 23:42 and need to take the Piccadilly line. Bear in mind that Ticketyboo and the GTR sites only allow fee-free refunds on uncollected paper tickets.

Thanks, sounds like a plan. I see that I can get H Ex advances to Paddington, not train specific but my printed itinerary will be.

If I split at Paddington, I assume I would be covered ? What would H Ex’ obligation be if the situation arose that I’m in good time for the 23:42, but it didn’t exist ?

 

[signed]

Assuming I split at Paddington, I assume I would be covered ?

As long as you allow the minimum connexion time, yes

 

[Rheilfordd]

I would suggest buying your ticket from a retailer that shows the 23:42 departure. If it then doesn't run, and you are delayed or stranded as a result, your itinerary will provide a clear basis for claiming against HEx. There are several retailers that allow you to get fee-free refunds on walk-up tickets (e.g. Ticketyboo, Railsmartr and the GTR sites), so I would suggest using one of them in case you miss the 23:42 and need to take the Piccadilly line. Bear in mind that Ticketyboo and the GTR sites only allow fee-free refunds on uncollected paper tickets.

Bought on Greater Anglia. Ticket shows the 23:42. All that remains is for Biggles to bring that plane in on time.

Should the worst happen and the 23:42 didn’t run, what would H Ex’ obligations be ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Sep 2024 ==

As long as you allow the minimum connexion time, yes

Understood, the itinerary would be exactly the same as for the through ticket.

 

[tram21]

However, Heathrow Express don’t show this train on their web site, suggesting that their last train from T5 is at 23:27.

This must just be an error on their part. The services registered to operate on the 12th, and have run on almost all previous Saturdays, depart T5 at 2342 and 2357.

As mentioned, there is also an additional Heathrow Express at 2357, but I've ignored your next Connection so it may not work.

 

[Watershed]

Should the worst happen and the 23:42 didn’t run, what would H Ex’ obligations be ?

Given that there'd be no more National Rail departures that day, they'd be obliged to provide alternative transport at least as far as Paddington (as well as delay compensation, which would likely be 100% of the cost of the ticket).

Beyond there it gets complicated because HEx operated under their own conditions of carriage rather than the NRCoT, so technically they could say you're on your own once they get you to Paddington.

 

[Rheilfordd]

This must just be an error on their part. The services registered to operate on the 12th, and have run on almost all previous Saturdays, depart T5 at 2342 and 2357.

As mentioned, there is also an additional Heathrow Express at 2357, but I've ignored your next Connection so it may not work.

Thanks, since my first post I actually called their contact number to query the discrepancy.

It happened to be after I’d already purchased my ticket. Our timetables are correct, I suggest you contact those sites showing incorrect times was the response.

I didn’t pursue the conversation.

 

[AlterEgo]

Given that there'd be no more National Rail departures that day, they'd be obliged to provide alternative transport at least as far as Paddington (as well as delay compensation, which would likely be 100% of the cost of the ticket).

They would just stick the OP on the Tube, or, more likely, tell them to pay with contactless and claim the sum back. From there, they'd be on their own as you observe. Very far from ideal and I reiterate I do not recommend doing this off the last flight of the day.

 

[Rheilfordd]

They would just stick the OP on the Tube, or, more likely, tell them to pay with contactless and claim the sum back. From there, they'd be on their own as you observe. Very far from ideal and I reiterate I do not recommend doing this off the last flight of the day.

I get the don’t do it off the last flight comment. All being well, it will be fine. 2 hours to get to Liv St after landing, should be a doddle.

I’d feel more comfortable if our railway industry was able to provide accurate service information so as to inform my travel decision and the likely cost.

When I booked the flight arriving in our global, outward looking capital city at 22:45, I didn’t think it extreme, or that our brand new shiny train system would shut down so early. Particularly when so many connecting services are still running.

My fault for not checking, but….bonkers, how many billions ?

 

[island]

Given that there'd be no more National Rail departures that day, they'd be obliged to provide alternative transport at least as far as Paddington (as well as delay compensation, which would likely be 100% of the cost of the ticket).

Beyond there it gets complicated because HEx operated under their own conditions of carriage rather than the NRCoT, so technically they could say you're on your own once they get you to Paddington.

Was about to say the same thing. HEX consider themselves their own entity so you would be conveyed to Paddington and that would be that.

The issue with Heathrow is that the taxi on arrival can be long and the times recorded on the likes of Flightradar24 will be the time it physically touches down.

Not to mention potential delays with UK Border Force or waiting for baggage to arrive.

When I booked the flight arriving in our global, outward looking capital city at 22:45, I didn’t think it extreme, or that our brand new shiny train system would shut down so early. Particularly when so many connecting services are still running.

Saturday night into Sunday morning has always been an earlier finish/later start situation to allow longer windows for necessary maintenance work on the infrastructure, quite a bit of which is approaching 200 years old. More generally, trains tend to run in line with when and where people want them, as they need to make money, which can't be achieved carting fresh air around.

 

[tram21]

Saturday night into Sunday morning has always been an earlier finish/later start situation to allow longer windows for necessary maintenance work on the infrastructure, quite a bit of which is approaching 200 years old. More generally, trains tend to run in line with when and where people want them, as they need to make money, which can't be achieved carting fresh air around.

But why are these trains showed on RTT, and have run previous Saturdays?

 

[island]

But why are these trains showed on RTT, and have run previous Saturdays?

I'm not talking about specific trains, I'm responding in general terms to the OP's moan about a "global outward looking capital city" and "new shiny train system".

 

[Rheilfordd]

I'm not talking about specific trains, I'm responding in general terms to the OP's moan about a "global outward looking capital city" and "new shiny train system".

Planes are still arriving, the system serves the airport. Planes carry people, who will all have onward journeys, many if not most, I would guess heading into, or via Central London.

My fundamental question was seeking to find an answer to the conflicting information on H Ex, RTT, NR, this site’s ticket portal and many other retailer sites.

In regard to comments on an earlier finish to allow maintenance, that’s not correct. Elizabeth line trains run later than the one I’m querying. Unfortunately too late for my connections.

I just wanted to know if the timetabled H Ex train is running and the ticket I needed to buy to catch it. Ticket now purchased, all will be revealed on 12th October.

 

[redreni]

This strikes me as most unwise.

Personally I would be looking for a hotel at or near the airport, or perhaps somewhere like Ealing or Paddington or somewhere along the Piccadilly line. Passage through Heathrow is, in general, painfully slow in my experience, even at quiet times.

Heathrow Express is, essentially, a pirate railway, so you can't rely on being able to claim the costs of a taxi or overnight accommodation from them.

You could book a journey on the last Elizabeth Line train, but your rights to be conveyed to your destination or provided with overnight accommodation would depend on you getting to the station in time for that train. You might not.

 

[Rheilfordd]

This strikes me as most unwise.

Personally I would be looking for a hotel at or near the airport, or perhaps somewhere like Ealing or Paddington or somewhere along the Piccadilly line. Passage through Heathrow is, in general, painfully slow in my experience, even at quiet times.

Heathrow Express is, essentially, a pirate railway, so you can't rely on being able to claim the costs of a taxi or overnight accommodation from them.

You could book a journey on the last Elizabeth Line train, but your rights to be conveyed to your destination or provided with overnight accommodation would depend on you getting to the station in time for that train. You might not.

The Piccadilly and Central lines run all night. If the worst happens, they will get us near enough to Rayleigh for an affordable Uber ride home.