Heathrow Express staff in strike ballot

[maniacmartin]

The BBC reports

Staff on the Heathrow Express rail service are to be balloted for industrial action in a row over jobs, pay and spending cuts.

Members of the Rail, Maritime and Transport (RMT) union will vote on whether to launch a campaign of action, including strikes.

The union said about 200 jobs were under threat.

Heathrow Express said it was consulting on the changes as it prepares for the arrival of competing service Crossrail.

Acting RMT general secretary Mick Cash said: "The planned axing of jobs, and the associated freezing and hacking back of pay and working conditions, is a kick in the teeth for the staff who have made Heathrow Express and Heathrow Connect the success story that they are today.

"RMT will mount a massive publicity and political campaign, backed up by industrial action, to stop these outrageous and dangerous cuts dead in their tracks."

'Employees' futures'
Keith Greenfield, managing director for Heathrow Express, said: "Crossrail will be the first direct competition to us since our launch in 1998 and the message is simple: 'We must be smarter today to compete tomorrow'."

He added: "Our proposals will cut our operating costs by nearly £6m over the next five years, while avoiding the need for compulsory redundancies and protecting existing employees' futures with the company."

Crossrail will open in 2018 and connect Berkshire and Essex via Heathrow and central London.

I think cuts at HEx are inevitable really once we have Crossrail. In fact, will there even be room for Heathrow Express, Heathrow Connect, Piccadilly line and Crossrail all to compete the the same journey opportunities? It seems like a lot of duplicated effort.

Given that ending up in Paddington isn't that useful for most people, will Crossrail become the premium service and HEx be closed?

 

[TheWalrus]

I suspect HX will eventually go freeing up paths on the GWML out of Paddington. The Crossrail service will only be ~10 minutes slower than HC but if travelling through central London will avoid a change therefore the time difference won't be much. I don't see why HX and HC staff couldn't transfer to the Crossrail operator anyway?

 

[transmanche]

I think cuts at HEx are inevitable really once we have Crossrail. In fact, will there even be room for Heathrow Express, Heathrow Connect, Piccadilly line and Crossrail all to compete the the same journey opportunities? It seems like a lot of duplicated effort.

Given that ending up in Paddington isn't that useful for most people, will Crossrail become the premium service and HEx be closed?

I believe that Heathrow Connect will effectively be replaced by Crossrail. As for Heathrow Express, I don't know if it'll outlast its current track access rights - which end in 2023.

 

[JamesRowden]

I believe that Heathrow Connect will effectively be replaced by Crossrail. As for Heathrow Express, I don't know if it'll outlast its current track access rights - which end in 2023.

This link shows that Heathrow Express want to operate the Reading to Heathrow services.

https://www.heathrowexpress.com/news/2014-02-09-ambition-for-heathrow-reading-express-service-unveiled

 

[jon0844]

It must be hard for anyone to take over the role of the late Bob Crow, so I suppose any possible contender for the role on a permanent basis wants to be seen as taking a hardline approach.

But I don't think anything Bob Crow would have written would have been like that. It would have got over the same message, but in a slightly more subtle way. Sure, there would have been the obligatory mentioning of the need to renationalise too...

 

[Taunton]

One thing is certain, HEx won't get their agreement renewed in 2023, so we only have another nine years of this disgracefully overpriced rip-off to go before we can be rid of it, and move on to 8 an hour Crossrail.

Frankfurt, train from under the terminal (with a sight less walking than at Heathrow to get there) into the city is 4 Euro (about £3.30) and it puts you off right in the centre. Heathrow is £21, provided that the spivs who try to sell the "first class" tickets for £29 single at Heathrow don't get to your visitors first. And then it puts you off at Paddington, a terminal which really should be recategorised as inner suburbs rather than central London. And they won't even speak to TfL about Oyster.

 

[transmanche]

Interesting to see RMT playing the 'safety card' by describing the changes as "dangerous". Now doubt, any concerns they have about safety will disappear if/when the employers chuck a few more quid at the employees - just like in the recent case of the LOROL train guards.

 

[feline1]

I've always been rather embarrassed by the Heathrow Express in any case - it just comes across as a way to con tourists and travellers out of the money, by duping them into using an overpriced service without making them aware of the cheaper alternatives. It's just not cricket.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Sure, there would have been the obligatory mentioning of the need to renationalise too...

Heathrow Express was never nationalised.
The branch and rights to it are owned by BAA (Ferrovial).

 

[talltim]

BAA was itself privatised in 1986. You could renationalise that I suppose

 

[feline1]

BAA was itself privatised in 1986. You could renationalise that I suppose

lol yeah I was going to mention that...

 

[transmanche]

Heathrow Express was never nationalised.
The branch and rights to it are owned by BAA (Ferrovial).

I believe it was originally created as a joint venture between BR and BAA, but BAA took full control when BR was privatised.

 

[paulravuslante]

Wow. Some refreshing comments on this thread....not. Yes HEx is expensive but it is the top of a long list of options from Heathrow to London. This is a free country and nobody forces anyone to use HEx. You pay your money and you make your choice....

 

[Fincra5]

These services are DOO already are they not.. ?
Is this the case for the RPOs onboard the trains?

 

[hassaanhc]

These services are DOO already are they not.. ?
Is this the case for the RPOs onboard the trains?

I believe Heathrow Express already do have their own Revenue Protection team - on Sunday I was on the 1922 HC Southall-Paddington and there was a member of staff wearing a yellow jacket with the Heathrow Express logo on the back checking tickets (and then at Paddington checking everyone had left the train so it could go back to the depot at Old Oak Common).

 

[Fincra5]

Well apparently the Evening Standard is saying its Guards Jobs.. ? But I thought they were DOO...

 

[feline1]

Yes HEx is expensive but it is the top of a long list of options from Heathrow to London. This is a free country and nobody forces anyone to use HEx. You pay your money and you make your choice....

They have staff at the airport giving people deliberately misleading info, not a "long list of options". Customers are not able to make an objective choice when bamboozled like that. It's clearly a sharp sales practice.

 

[hassaanhc]

They have staff at the airport giving people deliberately misleading info, not a "long list of options". Customers are not able to make an objective choice when bamboozled like that. It's clearly a sharp sales practice.

Well, it isn't a surprise they're promoting their own service. I've seen elsewhere someone overheard a £29.90 fare to travel to East Croydon from Heathrow and that person instead opted for the X26 bus at £2.40, and probably not informed about the Tube option.

 

[feline1]

Well, it isn't a surprise they're promoting their own service. I've seen elsewhere someone overheard a £29.90 fare to travel to East Croydon from Heathrow and that person instead opted for the X26 bus at £2.40, and probably not informed about the Tube option.

well it will be a right laugh if they go on strike then, and people have no alternative but to get the vastly cheaper but perfectly adequate alternative services

 

[paulravuslante]

These services are DOO already are they not.. ?
Is this the case for the RPOs onboard the trains?

I believe Heathrow Express already do have their own Revenue Protection team - on Sunday I was on the 1922 HC Southall-Paddington and there was a member of staff wearing a yellow jacket with the Heathrow Express logo on the back checking tickets (and then at Paddington checking everyone had left the train so it could go back to the depot at Old Oak Common).

Well apparently the Evening Standard is saying its Guards Jobs.. ? But I thought they were DOO...

The services are DOO, but they are still dispatched by platform staff at the airport. It is the removal of dispatch competences from these staff that is under discussion.

The staff on the Connect are purely customer service staff and are not guards or RPIs.

Further info in this news report: http://union-news.co.uk/2014/04/bre...workers-ballot-strike-action-200-jobs-threat/

They have staff at the airport giving people deliberately misleading info, not a "long list of options". Customers are not able to make an objective choice when bamboozled like that. It's clearly a sharp sales practice.

And there's nothing illegal in that sales practice. Again you missed the point. Those staff are sales staff employed by Hex, to promote Hex, not be impartial. The airport provides their own customer service staff to provide general information about the airport including all the options to leave the airport.

well it will be a right laugh if they go on strike then, and people have no alternative but to get the vastly cheaper but perfectly adequate alternative services

If Hex was inadequate then nobody would use it and the business would fold. And if the current links are so perfectly adequate then why is so much money being spent in providing Crossrail into the airport?

 

[jon0844]

Have you used Heathrow Express feline1?

It's expensive yes, but some people may have paid a lot of money for their flight, food at the airport, shopping and - if they're staying in London - hotels and other stuff ahead.

They may wish to save every penny because of that, in which case they have options to take the tube or a bus, or Heathrow Connect (which is shown on the route maps and other signs, so not totally hidden) or they might stump up the premium to travel in some luxury (even standard class) and saving some time so they can get on with their holiday, or perhaps just get home quicker after a long flight.

You do at least get something for your money. You get a train built to take luggage, and guaranteeing you a comfortable seat almost all of the time, that gets you into London far quicker than any other option - with a higher frequency.

Personally, I'll use Heathrow Connect whenever possible and save a lot of money, but if thanks to the tube I miss my train, it's 30 minutes for the next one and then 30 minutes on the train itself. So an hour, which is suddenly a long time and makes you think you could have just taken the tube.

Paddington isn't a terrible location given how many hotels it has, where many visitors might be staying, or even close to areas where many people are actually living who have flown back into Heathrow.

It's not an inadequate service, it's a service that has a premium that many people find to be totally justified.

 

[paulravuslante]

One thing is certain, HEx won't get their agreement renewed in 2023, so we only have another nine years of this disgracefully overpriced rip-off to go before we can be rid of it, and move on to 8 an hour Crossrail.

Frankfurt, train from under the terminal (with a sight less walking than at Heathrow to get there) into the city is 4 Euro (about £3.30) and it puts you off right in the centre. Heathrow is £21, provided that the spivs who try to sell the "first class" tickets for £29 single at Heathrow don't get to your visitors first. And then it puts you off at Paddington, a terminal which really should be recategorised as inner suburbs rather than central London. And they won't even speak to TfL about Oyster.

T4 and T5 stations are also under those terminals. Also you're nit comparing like with like. I looked up a fare for a DB ICE service from Frankfurt to the airport which comes out as €17.50 (including a compulsory reservation). That would be the equivalent to Hex in London!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Have you used Heathrow Express feline1?

It's expensive yes, but some people may have paid a lot of money for their flight, food at the airport, shopping and - if they're staying in London - hotels and other stuff ahead.

They may wish to save every penny because of that, in which case they have options to take the tube or a bus, or Heathrow Connect (which is shown on the route maps and other signs, so not totally hidden) or they might stump up the premium to travel in some luxury (even standard class) and saving some time so they can get on with their holiday, or perhaps just get home quicker after a long flight.

You do at least get something for your money. You get a train built to take luggage, and guaranteeing you a comfortable seat almost all of the time, that gets you into London far quicker than any other option - with a higher frequency.

Personally, I'll use Heathrow Connect whenever possible and save a lot of money, but if thanks to the tube I miss my train, it's 30 minutes for the next one and then 30 minutes on the train itself. So an hour, which is suddenly a long time and makes you think you could have just taken the tube.

Paddington isn't a terrible location given how many hotels it has, where many visitors might be staying, or even close to areas where many people are actually living who have flown back into Heathrow.

It's not an inadequate service, it's a service that has a premium that many people find to be totally justified.

Perfectly put!

 

[Blindtraveler]

I have used HX Once, just so I can say Iv done it - I doubt it will continue longterm but for now it has a place!↲

 

[Fincra5]

The services are DOO, but they are still dispatched by platform staff at the airport. It is the removal of dispatch competences from these staff that is under discussion.

The staff on the Connect are purely customer service staff and are not guards or RPIs.

Ah I got you now! Wouldn't that mean fitting either external cameras or platform monitors for these trains?

 

[paulravuslante]

Ah I got you now! Wouldn't that mean fitting either external cameras or platform monitors for these trains?

Indeed it would. Platform monitors are the preferred choice.

 

[Geeves]

I dont know if it is still the case but I had read that Hex was slightly unusual in so much as when the drivers were on spare turns they also did customer service roles such as despatch, guarding and other rolls with in the company?

No idea if this still happens today?

 

[HSTEd]

The question is not whether HX is a good idea or not - the question is whether it offers enough to be superior to simply doubling the Crossrail frequency to the airport.

I am pretty sure that those paths will just be assigned to Crossrail where they can be used more effectively than on five car trains that charge through a busy commuter corridor that can support ten car trains at larger loadings.

 

[hassaanhc]

The services are DOO, but they are still dispatched by platform staff at the airport. It is the removal of dispatch competences from these staff that is under discussion.

The staff on the Connect are purely customer service staff and are not guards or RPIs.

Further info in this news report: http://union-news.co.uk/2014/04/bre...workers-ballot-strike-action-200-jobs-threat/

Thanks, that actually explains why nothing happened to the group of people who went "Nah not you again" when he came round :roll:

I'm sure this line is notorious for fare evasion?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The question is not whether HX is a good idea or not - the question is whether it offers enough to be superior to simply doubling the Crossrail frequency to the airport.

I am pretty sure that those paths will just be assigned to Crossrail where they can be used more effectively than on five car trains that charge through a busy commuter corridor that can support ten car trains at larger loadings.

Either way I'm certain the extra capacity from Crossrail will be much welcomed by everyone along the route, particularly at places like Southall where for ages there has been only a 7 minute gap between a 5 car HC and 2-3 car FGW (each 2tph), the latter are much more likely to be packed in the Up direction due to coming from further away and being smaller trains, and would certainly improve the fact that you are left with a 23 minute wait if you can't get on a FGW service. Chronic overcrowding has persisted for years along the whole Crossrail route along here as there aren't enough DMUs to expand the service

 

[tranzitjim]

Will Heathrow Express and/or Heathrow Connect end up using the Cross-rail link?

 

[maniacmartin]

The question is not whether HX is a good idea or not - the question is whether it offers enough to be superior to simply doubling the Crossrail frequency to the airport.

I am pretty sure that those paths will just be assigned to Crossrail where they can be used more effectively than on five car trains that charge through a busy commuter corridor that can support ten car trains at larger loadings.

I agree. Why would we want to allocate paths to trains that terminate in Paddington when we can instead have trains that go further into London and beyond