Headbolt Lane progress updates

[Bletchleyite]

Individual TOCs changing the name in their own systems (so the TOC websites and screens don't match the platform signs and NRE) is surely worse than a consistent but uninformative name!

It's fairly common to suffix station names to give a bit of a clue, e.g. I'm almost certain Northern's system does, or did, show Kirkby as "Kirkby (Merseyside)" to prevent confusion with other similarly named stations.

 

[Parjon]

None of them are termini. The issue with Headbolt is that it appears on displays in places like Manchester Victoria, as such it could do with being prefixed with where it is.

It was never intended to be a terminus. It's hardly our fault that the British government have denied us the cash to complete the line. I don't see why we should contort ourselves to make up for their stance. No one in the Liverpool region is affected.

 

[Geeves]

Just to say it seems that the majority of passengers (at least passing through Victoria) are not phased by the train destination now being Headbolt Lane, bear in mind passengers towards Kirkby, have had Rainford showing for a long time.

 

[Djgr]

The main thing that we can take from the name debacle is the importance of relevant people considering the implications fully beforehand.

It is not as if hundreds of new stations need to be named every year.

Such an approach has allowed Liverpool Baltic not to be named after a random, unknown alley.

 

[childwallblues]

The main thing that we can take from the name debacle is the importance of relevant people considering the implications fully beforehand.

It is not as if hundreds of new stations need to be named every year.

Such an approach has allowed Liverpool Baltic not to be named after a random, unknown alley.

And I alway thought that the Baltic was that beautifully shaped pub that used to lock you in 50 years ago.

 

[8A Rail]

Kirkby, Headbolt Lane is the obviously description, no misunderstanding there what so ever.

 

[Farigiraf]

Now that it's been a few days, I was thinking, are there any people being affected by this? for example commuters from wigan/skem/rainford to Kirkby - Now that northern only runs to Hbolt lane, are anybody's journeys being seriously extended, especially with the tight connection times? How bad is the walk from the new station into the town centre?

 

[childwallblues]

According to Merseytravel the service to Headbolt Lane is to be increased to every 30 minutes from next Thursday 18 October.

 

[lrailadventure]

According to Merseytravel the service to Headbolt Lane is to be increased to every 30 minutes from next Thursday 18 October.

According to Merseyrail's twitter the service increase is from tomorrow?

https://twitter.com/merseyrail/status/1712000087398695295?t=HJqfwtoBTYbbSCK-kQ0a4Q&s=19

A link to Merseyrail's twitter that states:

A 30-minute service between Headbolt Lane via Kirkby and Liverpool Central will start on Thursday 12 October.

 

[childwallblues]

According to Merseyrail's twitter the service increase is from tomorrow?

https://twitter.com/merseyrail/status/1712000087398695295?t=HJqfwtoBTYbbSCK-kQ0a4Q&s=19

A link to Merseyrail's twitter that states:

Even better.

 

[Djgr]

And I alway thought that the Baltic was that beautifully shaped pub that used to lock you in 50 years ago.

Well indeed. And I think that lies close to but outside the triangle.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Now that it's been a few days, I was thinking, are there any people being affected by this? for example commuters from wigan/skem/rainford to Kirkby - Now that northern only runs to Hbolt lane, are anybody's journeys being seriously extended, especially with the tight connection times? How bad is the walk from the new station into the town centre?

I don't know what the walk is like, but the distance seems to be near enough the same (you near enough have an equilateral triangle between the two stations and the bus station/shopping centre). Neither station is really central, it's a bit like if Milton Keynes only had Bletchley and Wolverton.

 

[peter166]

Now that it's been a few days, I was thinking, are there any people being affected by this? for example commuters from wigan/skem/rainford to Kirkby - Now that northern only runs to Hbolt lane, are anybody's journeys being seriously extended, especially with the tight connection times? How bad is the walk from the new station into the town centre?

Re. the tight connections - the Northern trains from Blackburn/Manchester Vicoria are scheduled to arrive at 38 mins past each hour and the Merseyrail trains to Liverpool to depart at 39 mins past each hour. Looking at Realtime Trains over the last few days quite a few of the connections have been missed with subsequent waits of up to 59 mins !
At least from Thursday when the Mereyrail service increases to half-hourly the wait will only be up to 29 mins which is still pretty poor

 

[urbophile]

I don't know what the walk is like, but the distance seems to be near enough the same (you near enough have an equilateral triangle between the two stations and the bus station/shopping centre). Neither station is really central, it's a bit like if Milton Keynes only had Bletchley and Wolverton.

I used to live near enough opposite where the southern exit from the new station comes out. It's not much more than ten minutes walk to the town centre, which if anything I'd say is slightly nearer than from Kirkby station itself.* Bear in mind too that the town centre is not so much of a destination from outside Kirkby: I'd guess most rail passengers are commuters and shoppers into Liverpool, and the catchment area of Headbolt Lane station is developing suburbia.

*I've not checked it out since the station opened, and I might be underestimating the time and distance. But I don't think by much.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I used to live near enough opposite where the southern exit from the new station comes out. It's not much more than ten minutes walk to the town centre, which if anything I'd say is slightly nearer than from Kirkby station itself.* Bear in mind too that the town centre is not so much of a destination from outside Kirkby: I'd guess most rail passengers are commuters and shoppers into Liverpool, and the catchment area of Headbolt Lane station is developing suburbia.

This is almost certainly true - similarly to Skelmersdale, the jobs available in the town centre are almost all low wage retail and will primarily be done by locals, not commuters, who will generally get there by bus or car. There was the Barclaycard tower, but that no longer seems to be operational.

 

[Phillipimo]

Some station signs have now been updated to show the new station, plus a sticker covering the future Liverpool Baltic station between Central and Brunswick. This is at Moorfields.

 

[JBuchananGB]

At least from Thursday when the Merseyrail service increases to half-hourly the wait will only be up to 29 mins which is still pretty poor

With the 30 minute interval service now operating, if you want to catch the xx53 service to Wigan, you'll need to be on the xx27 arrival from Liverpool, and wait 26 minutes. Joined up thinking.

 

[karlbbb]

With the 30 minute interval service now operating, if you want to catch the xx53 service to Wigan, you'll need to be on the xx27 arrival from Liverpool, and wait 26 minutes. Joined up thinking.

But only until the full 15-minute timetable is reinstated. The timeline on that, though... who knows.

 

[Ewan Hetting]

Some station signs have now been updated to show the new station, plus a sticker covering the future Liverpool Baltic station between Central and Brunswick. This is at Moorfields.

Was this at Liverpool South Parkway?

 

[Phillipimo]

Was this at Liverpool South Parkway?

I saw one there too yes, and at Liverpool Central. So they should spread around soon.

 

[Starmill]

to give a bit of a clue, e.g. I'm almost certain Northern's system does, or did, show Kirkby as "Kirkby (Merseyside)" to prevent confusion with other similarly named stations.

They only did that so that you couldn't overprint a different name onto the ticket though, such as changing Kirkby to Kirkby Stephen or Shipley to Shirley.

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Just to say it seems that the majority of passengers (at least passing through Victoria) are not phased by the train destination now being Headbolt Lane, bare in mind passengers towards Kirkby, have had Rainford showing for a long time.

It has however been disappointing to see the National Rail Enquiries app fetching no name for the station when planning a journey and showing either undefined or the three letter code.

 

[geoffk]

According to Merseyrail's twitter the service increase is from tomorrow?

https://twitter.com/merseyrail/status/1712000087398695295?t=HJqfwtoBTYbbSCK-kQ0a4Q&s=19

A link to Merseyrail's twitter that states:

Wasn't it every 15 minutes before Covid? I see that Ormskirk is every 15 minutes. Is this because the works at Kirkby are not finished or not enough trains in service?

 

[Bletchleyite]

They only did that so that you couldn't overprint a different name onto the ticket though, such as changing Kirkby to Kirkby Stephen or Shipley to Shirley.

On tickets, yes, but I'm almost certain I've seen "Kirkby (Merseyside)" on a station display somewhere.

It would appear the HTML feed used to display departure boards on Northern's TVMs don't know about it either:


(Image is of a Northern departure board, as shown on the TVMs, showing Headbolt Lane as blank in the header and HBOLTN in the calling list)

URL for these if you want one: https://webcis.northern.ketech-uis.com/departures?target=WGW (change the last 3 letters to any station that has a Northern TVM or is operated or served by Northern, other ones won't work)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Oct 2023 ==

Wasn't it every 15 minutes before Covid?

Yes, the standard daytime frequency for all Merseyrail branches is 4tph, except Ellesmere Port which is 2. My suspicion would be that there aren't enough working 777s, and they don't want to pay for major overhauls for 50x going for scrap soon.

 

[Djgr]

Wasn't it every 15 minutes before Covid? I see that Ormskirk is every 15 minutes. Is this because the works at Kirkby are not finished or not enough trains in service?

Remember that (Kirkby) Headbolt Lane requires the battery trains and not any old 777

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Oct 2023 ==

On tickets, yes, but I'm almost certain I've seen "Kirkby (Merseyside)" on a station display somewhere.

It would appear the HTML feed used to display departure boards on Northern's TVMs don't know about it either:
View attachment 144699

(Image is of a Northern departure board, as shown on the TVMs, showing Headbolt Lane as blank in the header and HBOLTN in the calling list)

URL for these if you want one: https://webcis.northern.ketech-uis.com/departures?target=WGW (change the last 3 letters to any station that has a Northern TVM or is operated or served by Northern, other ones won't work)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Oct 2023 ==



Yes, the standard daytime frequency for all Merseyrail branches is 4tph, except Ellesmere Port which is 2. My suspicion would be that there aren't enough working 777s, and they don't want to pay for major overhauls for 50x going for scrap soon.

Nice to see they chose a code that could be confused with Bolton!!!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Just to say it seems that the majority of passengers (at least passing through Victoria) are not phased by the train destination now being Headbolt Lane, bare in mind passengers towards Kirkby, have had Rainford showing for a long time.

Does anyone know if the Northern York to Leeds via Harrogate trains still only show Burley Park on their destination section?

 

[lrailadventure]

Wasn't it every 15 minutes before Covid? I see that Ormskirk is every 15 minutes. Is this because the works at Kirkby are not finished or not enough trains in service?

It was 15 minutes prior to the driver training of the 777s and works for Headbolt lane, but the service was cut back about 6 months ago IIRC.

The intention is once enough staff have been trained (additional route knowledge needed and I'm not sure if all staff are 777 trained now etc), and there are enough 777/1s in service, the frequency of trains will return to every 15 minutes.

 

[Starmill]

On tickets, yes, but I'm almost certain I've seen "Kirkby (Merseyside)" on a station display somewhere.

That's the correct name to display because that's the IDMS feed name for the location that CIS suppliers are supposed to use.

I wouldn't use that as a paragon for consistency of names however. For example it has 'Oxenholme Lake District' and 'Penrith (North Lakes)'.

Moreton, Upton, Walton and Waterloo have the same suffix as Kirkby. Headbolt Lane doesn't.

Or it says it's Hythe (Essex) but Greater Anglia put nameboards up calling it Hythe (Colchester) rather than just Hythe. As if people already there might wonder which they're in.

 

[Crossover]

Does anyone know if the Northern York to Leeds via Harrogate trains still only show Burley Park on their destination section?

I believe so. Same for Poppleton at Leeds

 

[lrailadventure]

Does anyone know if the Northern York to Leeds via Harrogate trains still only show Burley Park on their destination section?

Yes, at York the service is displayed with Burley Park as its destination, and at Leeds, is shown with Poppleton as it's destination. All intermediate stations have York/Leeds shown as the destination. Basically it's just to stop passengers get confused and getting on the much longer services that travel via Harrogate, rather than the quicker journeys via Garforth.

 

[barbette165]

They only did that so that you couldn't overprint a different name onto the ticket though, such as changing Kirkby to Kirkby Stephen or Shipley to Shirley.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Oct 2023 ==


It has however been disappointing to see the National Rail Enquiries app fetching no name for the station when planning a journey and showing either undefined or the three letter code.

On iOS the station name does appear. The version history in the app says that, for version 9.6.4 released a month ago, support is added for new stations, one of which is Headbolt Lane.

Perhaps you need to force an update of the app?