Headbolt Lane progress updates

[Greybeard33]

The new points that the latest image showed were the curvature of the Liverpool bays and the Wigan platform not projecting but being correctly placed for the eastbound line (here down according to SA, NW6015, NW8009), with the freight siding possibly dictating the station plan.

WAO

The Sectional Appendix has not yet been updated to show Headbolt Lane station. On NW6015, the single line through the station site (ELR WKL2) is identified as just Down & Up, but east of Rainford the eastbound line is Up Main and the westbound Down Main, as per the original L&Y nomenclature that up is towards Manchester. On NW8009, between Walton Junction and Fazakerley Junction (ELR WJK) the eastbound line has been renamed from Down Kirkby to Down Headbolt and the westbound from Up Kirkby to Up Headbolt, per the Merseyrail convention of up towards Liverpool. This suggests that the northern ("eastbound") Merseyrail track at Headbolt Lane might be identified as Down and the southern as Up, although both tracks will be bidirectional.

I do not believe it has ever been the intention that the Wigan platform would "project" and obstruct a future Merseyrail extension. See this Network Rail plan, from a Knowsley council planning document:

https://epa.knowsley.gov.uk/PublicAccess_Live/Document/ViewDocument?id=928DA05E04DE11EC885358961D92BEDF

Clearly the southern ("westbound") Merseyrail track aligns with the Wigan track, just as it is now being constructed, shown by the photo in #299.

Even if a future government were to become more amenable in principle to a Skelmersdale extension, the Liverpool CR authorities won't be risking scarce resources on something that has had the rug pulled out from under it.

If there is no BCR for an extension to Skem there's definitely nothing but expense for extension of services to Rainford. The government would have to commit to funding Skem in full before Wigan was agreed. Since the Skem money will never be offered nor asked for, there will also be no extension to Wigan.

The improved connectivity provided by Merseyrail to Wigan would bring economic benefits to both city regions (more commuting and leisure journeys in both directions) and would also relieve the national exchequer of the subsidy to the existing Northern service on the line. Therefore I concur that the LCR could not be expected to fund such an extension from its own resources. If a viable business case could be developed, the funding would likely have to come mainly from the UK Government, both to procure the additional Merseyrail rolling stock and to subsidise the ongoing increased Merseyrail operating costs.

 

[Railsigns]

This suggests that the northern ("eastbound") Merseyrail track at Headbolt Lane might be identified as Down and the southern as Up, although both tracks will be bidirectional.

That's what the signalling plan shows. "Down Headbolt" to/from Platform 1, and "Up Headbolt" to/from Platform 2.

 

[WAO]

Clearly the southern ("westbound") Merseyrail track aligns with the Wigan track, just as it is now being constructed, shown by the photo in #299.

Agreed but #299 seems to show the Liverpool lines curving northwards slightly, to allow this. The large scale plans may show this but not distinctly. My point was that the Wigan platform would be correctly sited for a two-road through station, although this would only be needed for extreme traffic growth and would need the Liverpool platforms "straightening" and the siding moved! The Wigan link has many advantages as you say and would be very much cheaper, with battery trains and existing infrastructure, than a c£300M, 7.5 mile link to Skelmersdale.

WAO

 

[AMD]

Passengers using Pemberton and Orrell stations are predominantly travelling to/from locations beyond Wigan. There are both commuters and shoppers going to Manchester as well as college students, not just from all of Wigan borough but also from Salford, to Orrell.

Indeed - there are approx 60 students who use the service daily to Orrell, of which about 2/3 come from Hindley and Atherton areas (there are only about 3 or 4 from Kirkby direction).
Also, as Orrell and Pemberton are in the TfGM area, there is a substantial difference in passenger numbers going towards Manchester than Liverpool.

 

[yorkie]

This is an infrastructure updates thread to discuss Headbolt Lane work.

To discuss any other topic, please use/create a separate thread, for example there is a thread discussing the possibility of a Merseyrail extension at the link below:

Potential Merseyrail expansion beyond Headbolt Lane and/or timetable improvements

I heard somewhere the Wigan platform at Headbolt Lane has been designed to be less substantial than the two Liverpool ones to make it easily removable should extension to Skem or Wigan be approved in the future.

www.railforums.co.uk

Many thanks.

 

[Phillipimo]

Current state of affairs at Kirkby.

 

[mcnw35282]

A few photos I managed to get from the site. 1st is the eastbound platform. 2nd and 3rd were taken from the field next to the far side westbound platform. 4th and 5th are as close as I could get to the level walkway.

 

[Parjon]

Got to love how all those millions of Pounds earns commuters a bus shelter on each platform in which to shelter from rain.

 

[scrapy]

Got to love how all those millions of Pounds earns commuters a bus shelter on each platform in which to shelter from rain.

The station building looks like it will have a reasonable sized indoor waiting area.

With the proposed timetable there will only be a few minutes where there isn't a train in one of the Merseyrail platforms. The Northern service will also have reasonable layover, and the previous bus stop shelter at Kirkby on the Northern platform more than sufficed so I'm not sure why you would need to wait on the platforms. Surely any more than a bus shelter would be a waste of money.

 

[childwallblues]

The station building looks like it will have a reasonable sized indoor waiting area.

With the proposed timetable there will only be a few minutes where there isn't a train in one of the Merseyrail platforms. The Northern service will also have reasonable layover, and the previous bus stop shelter at Kirkby on the Northern platform more than sufficed so I'm not sure why you would need to wait on the platforms. Surely any more than a bus shelter would be a waste of money.

Agreed. Bus stop shelters will be more than adequate.

 

[Parjon]

Agreed. Bus stop shelters will be more than adequate.

Well, thank you Mr Austerity. Assuming this station is intended to popular, the commuters getting rained on as they reach the train will thank you too.

I was rather more commenting on how little millions of Pounds buys in the UK, or at least at Network Rail. What a miserable appearance, and little utility, versus a canopy.

 

[zwk500]

I was rather more commenting on how little millions of Pounds buys in the UK, or at least at Network Rail. What a miserable appearance, and little utility, versus a canopy.

The millions of pounds gets you a station. Although a canopy would be better, there are many stations up and down the land who could say the same, and where there is often no other alternative. Having said that, canopies on the Merseyrail platforms can't have costed that much more, and there's no argument about signal sighting here (unless the argument was that one day it might be a through line again).

 

[Parjon]

The millions of pounds gets you a station. Although a canopy would be better, there are many stations up and down the land who could say the same, and where there is often no other alternative. Having said that, canopies on the Merseyrail platforms can't have costed that much more, and there's no argument about signal sighting here (unless the argument was that one day it might be a through line again).

It seems things cost an awful lot, and yet there is no consideration for aesthetics or negating unpleasantries. Network Rail is a rip.

 

[zwk500]

It seems things cost an awful lot, and yet there is no consideration for aesthetics or negating unpleasantries. Network Rail is a rip.

negating unpleasantries or aesthetics take lesser precedence because things cost an awful lot. Blame value-for-money analysis and treasury management.

 

[Mordac]

negating unpleasantries or aesthetics take lesser precedence because things cost an awful lot. Blame value-for-money analysis and treasury management.

Except in London where nothing is too ostentatious (see Crossrail stations).

 

[zwk500]

Except in London where nothing is too ostentatious (see Crossrail stations).

Crossrail stations are funded by housing development over or around the station. But in the main they're not ostentations, just the size they need to be for the passengers they are expected to carry. Especially if you look at the GW and GE stations.

 

[Mordac]

Crossrail stations are funded by housing development over or around the station. But in the main they're not ostentations, just the size they need to be for the passengers they are expected to carry. Especially if you look at the GW and GE stations.

The expenditure on art and beautification (the thing we are told is unaffordable for "the provinces") is definitely ostentatious.

 

[WAO]

HBL's station building, with its glass walled booking hall/waiting area is quite elegant in my view and should attract good business. There's nothing wrong with modern design if good quality and offering space, circulation, light and shelter. Canopies aren't needed if the glazed waiting area is close to the train departure points. All it now needs is a branch of Stalybridge's cafe!

The messy track arrangement is another matter, as discussed elsewhere. Surely a ramped footbridge from the South would have been better value.

WAO

 

[Llandudno]

The expenditure on art and beautification (the thing we are told is unaffordable for "the provinces") is definitely ostentatious.

I think in the case of Headbolt Lane (Kirkby Northwood) I think functional and practical is about right.

Anything fancy or ostentatious may be subject to vandalism.

 

[urbophile]

I think in the case of Headbolt Lane (Kirkby Northwood) I think functional and practical is about right.

Anything fancy or ostentatious may be subject to vandalism.

Do you live in Kirkby? Anywhere may be subject to vandalism, but why should Kirkby be more so? Bear in mind Merseyrail stations are (usually) continuously staffed, and the new trains introduced on the Kirkby line before others seem to have survived unscathed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do you live in Kirkby?

Kirkby is one of the rougher areas of the Liverpool City Region, though not anywhere near as bad as it was. A very similar place to Wythenshawe.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Do you live in Kirkby? Anywhere may be subject to vandalism, but why should Kirkby be more so? Bear in mind Merseyrail stations are (usually) continuously staffed, and the new trains introduced on the Kirkby line before others seem to have survived unscathed.

It would take an unimaginable act of vandalism to lead to a train being withdrawn and scrapped! But Kirkby is the only place where I have actually had to deal with a windscreen almost penetrated by a missile. This is of course anecdotal and happened a few years ago but nevertheless continuous outbreaks of vandalism was the reason given for there being no evening service on the Wigan side. A bad reputation can be difficult to shake off.

Kirkby is one of the rougher areas of the Liverpool City Region, though not anywhere near as bad as it was. A very similar place to Wythenshawe.

Despite my comments above I would say this a fair summary. Ask regular users of Metrolink evening services through Wythenshawe how comfortable or otherwise they feel.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Ask regular users of Metrolink evening services through Wythenshawe how comfortable or otherwise they feel.

The Manchester Metrolink Oldham/Rochdale line is a recent addition to those lines suffering or have suffered from quite bad anti-social behaviour.

 

[urbophile]

It would take an unimaginable act of vandalism to lead to a train being withdrawn and scrapped!

True. But trains have often been subjected to lesser forms of vandalism such as graffiti or damaged seats. Any evidence of this happening on the Kirkby line recently?

 

[Parjon]

No

 

[jamesst]

True. But trains have often been subjected to lesser forms of vandalism such as graffiti or damaged seats. Any evidence of this happening on the Kirkby line recently?

To be fair the Ellesmere Port line is currently (&has been for a while) the premier Merseyrail line for antisocial behaviour.

 

[dvfmlfc]

It would take an unimaginable act of vandalism to lead to a train being withdrawn and scrapped! But Kirkby is the only place where I have actually had to deal with a windscreen almost penetrated by a missile. This is of course anecdotal and happened a few years ago but nevertheless continuous outbreaks of vandalism was the reason given for there being no evening service on the Wigan side. A bad reputation can be difficult to shake off.

The withdrawal of the evening service between Wigan and Kirkby was because Lancashire County Council refused to fund it their share of it. A replacement bus service, operated and funded by Merseyside PTE numbered 50, ran between Kirkby and Rainford during 1983/84.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The withdrawal of the evening service between Wigan and Kirkby was because Lancashire County Council refused to fund it their share of it. A replacement bus service, operated and funded by Merseyside PTE numbered 50, ran between Kirkby and Rainford during 1983/84.

Any idea what the loadings were like on that number 50 service?

 

[Llandudno]

Any idea what the loadings were like on that number 50 service?

I bet the number 50 bus only operated to Rainford (Junction) station and so probably carried next to no-one, had it operated to the centre of Rainford then it may have been slightly better used?

 

[dvfmlfc]

Any idea what the loadings were like on that number 50 service?

Minimal. The service ran for about 9 months before the PTE withdrew it due to low patronage.