Hazardous loads - Freightliner

[DarloRich]

Yesterday night I was at Tamworth waiting for my train home when a northbound Freighliner train ( hauled by a class 70 with a very purple headlight!) passed through the station. Within the consist of the train were several wagons carrying a very odd load.

The load on the wagon looked like a domestic propane tank contained within some kind of metal exoskeleton. It was clearly chemical in nature as the vessel carried standard warning symbols and had something stamped on it (perhaps a product or chemical name) which I couldn't make out due to the speed of the train and the darkness.

It wasn't a standard ISO tank ( like the blue and yellow Bulkhaul ones you see from time to time) and was clearly something different. There were several wagons carrying two vessels each spread along the train with none in direct contact with another.

Any ideas what it was?

 

[randyrippley]

Could be almost any kind of liquid chemical
Without knowing the labels or UN label its difficult to say more

 

[DarloRich]

Could be almost any kind of liquid chemical
Without knowing the labels or UN label its difficult to say more

I am not sure - it must be something pretty harmful as I know some of the chemicals carried by, say, Bulkhaul in a standard ISO tank are fairly noxious - this clearly needed more protection than a standard tank

 

[Clip]

Ive seen these before but couldnt tell you what they were holding as going too fast

 

[GB]

As said it really could be anything (except explosives or nuclear). Different tank manufactures have different design standards...a tank with an exoskeleton doesn't necessarily mean has more funkier stuff than the rest. Also there are loading standards and *separation distances to think about.

*Some dangerous goods must be a certain length away from other certain dangerous goods.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Something like these?
https://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/T.../20-Containers/20T6-2076-20-tank-container-8/
some of them carrying UN 3483 or 1649, "motor fuel anti-knock mixture"
These seem to be pressurised, which might explain the small size and greater bracing.

Or this
https://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/The-Humble-Box/TheHumbleBox-Type/20-Containers/22T6/i-LQmTtJH/A
with
3394 "Organometallic substance, liquid, pyrophoric, water-reactive", possibly lithium-based.

 

[DarloRich]

i will have to ask my friend who was with me if he saw the name on the side. It was a single word or company name but it was dark so I couldn't make it out.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Something like these?
https://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/T.../20-Containers/20T6-2076-20-tank-container-8/
some of them carrying UN 3483 or 1649, "motor fuel anti-knock mixture"
These seem to be pressurised, which might explain the small size and greater bracing.

Or this
https://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/The-Humble-Box/TheHumbleBox-Type/20-Containers/22T6/i-LQmTtJH/A
with
3394 "Organometallic substance, liquid, pyrophoric, water-reactive", possibly lithium-based.

If anti-knock compound still contains ethylene dibromide then yes, it is pretty nasty stuff. That used to be the main traffic on the Amlwch branch when I lived there and it could cause all sorts of problems in the event of a mishap.

Basically, if it can be carried on a ship - and there is little that can't, subject to the danagerous goods rules - then yes, it could end up on a Freightliner or other intermodal operator's service.

 

[eastwestdivide]

ethylene dibromide went out with leaded petrol apparently

 

[Taunton]

ethylene dibromide went out with leaded petrol apparently

Still in aviation gasoline.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

As said it really could be anything (except explosives or nuclear). Different tank manufactures have different design standards...a tank with an exoskeleton doesn't necessarily mean has more funkier stuff than the rest. Also there are loading standards and *separation distances to think about.

*Some dangerous goods must be a certain length away from other certain dangerous goods.

Used to be embedded in the Pink Pages of "The Working Manual for Rail Staff" - usually a seperation of 60ft minimum ......train crew and TOPS personally advised of course. Certain products required a medical kit to be handed out to traincrew. Will not go into that here...

 

[Highlandspring]

The pink pages are still the current standard for handling of dangerous goods by rail -

https://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/rulebooks/GORT3053 Iss 6.pdf

https://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/rulebooks/GORT3053-1 Iss 8.pdf

 

[Ediswan]

Possibly bromine. That matches the 'exoskeleton' description. Google has images of 'bromine tank'.

 

[DarloRich]

Possibly bromine. That matches the 'exoskeleton' description. Google has images of 'bromine tank'.

thanks - that looks about right

 

[eastwestdivide]

Possibly bromine. That matches the 'exoskeleton' description. Google has images of 'bromine tank'.

Interesting that the google search had two of my photos in the top three when I did it - of bromine ferry tanks in the 1980s, which also had very small barrels.
Bromine is pretty dense for a liquid (over 3 times as dense as water), which probably accounts for the small barrel size.

 

[randyrippley]

Something like these?
https://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/T.../20-Containers/20T6-2076-20-tank-container-8/
some of them carrying UN 3483 or 1649, "motor fuel anti-knock mixture"
These seem to be pressurised, which might explain the small size and greater bracing.

Or this
https://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/The-Humble-Box/TheHumbleBox-Type/20-Containers/22T6/i-LQmTtJH/A
with
3394 "Organometallic substance, liquid, pyrophoric, water-reactive", possibly lithium-based.

those photos on the first link are a good example of what I mean by "any kind of chemicals...."
The first three grey tank "antiknock agent" photos are probably holding tetraethyl lead
The next two white ones with blue labels are holding an organophosphorous pesticide, Chloropyrophos
The white space frame has tetramethyl lead
The blue/yellow one has tetrachloroethylene
The next grey/red one - tetramethyl lead (again)
The white FMC tank on the second link will be holding an organolithium reagent: FMC specialise in that kind of chemistry

Surprised by the number of alkyl lead tanks: as its use in petrol is pretty much banned except for aircraft you wouldn't expect to see a lot

 

[randyrippley]

The pink pages are still the current standard for handling of dangerous goods by rail -

https://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/rulebooks/GORT3053 Iss 6.pdf

https://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/rulebooks/GORT3053-1 Iss 8.pdf

that may be your working manual, but ultimately all legislation derives from the RID agreements
see https://www.tsoshop.co.uk/Transport/Rail/Transport-Of-Dangerous-Goods-By-Rail/

 

[edwin_m]

Interesting that aviation fuel still apparently contains lead, which was banned for road use many years ago. I must find out more about this.

 

[GB]

Lead is found in Avgas (aviation gas) but modern jet engines do not use it. They use a kerosene base fuel that doesn’t contain lead. Normally Jet A and Jet A-1 for standard use and Jet B for colder climates.

 

[randyrippley]

Lead is found in Avgas (aviation gas) but modern jet engines do not use it. They use a kerosene base fuel that doesn’t contain lead. Normally Jet A and Jet A-1 for standard use and Jet B for colder climates.

Exactly. Aviation piston engines require a high-octane high performance fuel akin to the old 100 Octane 5-star beloved of Hillman Imps........Alkyllead chemicals are a key ingredient
Not jets though - in theory they can burn any old liquid hydrocarbon

 

[furnessvale]

Exactly. Aviation piston engines require a high-octane high performance fuel akin to the old 100 Octane 5-star beloved of Hillman Imps........Alkyllead chemicals are a key ingredient
Not jets though - in theory they can burn any old liquid hydrocarbon

So having removed lead from our roads to save the childrun, we continue to spray it over them from a great height!

 

[randyrippley]

So having removed lead from our roads to save the childrun, we continue to spray it over them from a great height!

better than having the aircraft falling on them from height............
can't be that much in reality though -just how many small aircraft are there in the UK?
I'm racking my brain trying to think where else it might be used, but I can't think of anything

 

[furnessvale]

better than having the aircraft falling on them from height............
can't be that much in reality though -just how many small aircraft are there in the UK?
I'm racking my brain trying to think where else it might be used, but I can't think of anything

Yes, I was only joking but, if you live next to , say, Barton airfield, Manchester, the constant circuits of light aircraft could add up in a day.

 

[Nean]

Yes, I was only joking but, if you live next to , say, Barton airfield, Manchester, the constant circuits of light aircraft could add up in a day.

However the lead in aircraft fuel is normally dispersed over about 2000-10000 feet above ground, rather than 2.000 to 10.000 feet away from a pavement. It's all about concentration (mildly ironic given some of the symptoms of lead poisoning)...

Edit: and before some pedant says "aircraft normally fly at 20000-30000 feet (FL200-300) those are commercial airliners on Jet A1... most private planes on Avgas fly VFR in the nice part of the sky where you don't have to pressurise the cabin to avoid passing out...

 

[unlevel42]

Bangor railway station on a Sunday in the 1970's
One train consisting of 10 full wagons of chlorine and 1 empty wagon of bromine going to Amlwch.
One train consisting of 10 empty wagons of chlorine and 1 full wagon of bromine from Amlwch.
One train of nuclear fuel rods from Wylfa.
One full Rugby special train bound for South Wales from the Holyhead.
One full Emerald Isle express from Holyhead bound for Euston.

Question. Which was the most dangerous?

 

[edwin_m]

According to Wikipedia many light aircraft can use unleaded grades of aviation gasoline or even standard unleaded petrol, and efforts continue to formulate a lead-free alternative for those grades that still contain lead. The total lead pollution from aircraft is a tiny fraction of what it used to be when cars used leaded petrol.

 

[Poolie]

Several hundreds of tonnes of chlorine trundle across the M62 every week and countless thousands of tonnes of other nasties all around the road network. What must the paperwork be like to cover all the potential problems that may arise?

 

[randyrippley]

According to Wikipedia many light aircraft can use unleaded grades of aviation gasoline or even standard unleaded petrol, and efforts continue to formulate a lead-free alternative for those grades that still contain lead. The total lead pollution from aircraft is a tiny fraction of what it used to be when cars used leaded petrol.

I can only assume those tanks were for the export market......there are still a few countries where leaded fuel is used

 

[furnessvale]

Several hundreds of tonnes of chlorine trundle across the M62 every week and countless thousands of tonnes of other nasties all around the road network. What must the paperwork be like to cover all the potential problems that may arise?

Trains of such chemicals were removed from the railways some years ago when the DoT(as it was then) decided that such chemicals were SAFER on our roads because motorways bypassed towns, as opposed to railways which ran through the centre of the same towns. Tell that to a nurse who stepped out into a pool of liquid at a motorway pile up only to discover it was highly corrosive acid.

Such is the logic of our betters!

 

[eastwestdivide]

I can only assume those tanks were for the export market......there are still a few countries where leaded fuel is used

Or that they didn't contain tetraethyl lead, as the markings only indicate "anti-knock agent". TEL is only one such agent.