Have you had the virus?

[Bletchleyite]

My mum tested positive for antibodies this morning, further confirming my belief that we all had it in early March (although if this is the case, I'm surprised they are still at detectable levels)

Maybe you've all had it more than once but fought it off successfully the other times, that would result in antibodies being detectable.

 

[Westcountryman]

My mum tested positive for antibodies this morning, further confirming my belief that we all had it in early March (although if this is the case, I'm surprised they are still at detectable levels)

If she did have it in March, then this positive test for antibodies may well mean that once you have had Covid you are immune for at least 6 months.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

If she did have it in March, then this positive test for antibodies may well mean that once you have had Covid you are immune for at least 6 months.

Just to sound a cautionary note. There is a body of opinion, and some evidence, that suggests that there is some immunity. However, the prevailing view is that it requires a bit more research before any definitive statement on immunity can be made. After all, there are reported cases of re-infection though there may be valid reasons behind those and they could be outliers.

FWIW, I definitely thought I'd had it in Feb with fever, muscle aches, dry persistent cough and shortness of breath - all the classic symptoms except loss of taste/smell. Paid for the antibody test - came up negative. Was quite disappointed!

I've had one person I know die from Covid (former work colleague who was the mum of a former drinking mate) and four people who had it and recovered. Of those four, one serious (requiring a number of short stay hospitalisations and was ill for 2 months), one quite serious (and only 42) who was on verge of hospital but then recovered, and two really minor cases.

 

[Yew]

After all, there are reported cases of re-infection though there may be valid reasons behind those and they could be outliers.

A handful from hundreds of millions of infections.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

A handful from hundreds of millions of infections.

Yes - hence reference to them being outliers

 

[Richard Scott]

I'm not convinced by these reinfections considering how few people have had it in the first place. Not quite like winning lottery twice but odds must be low. More likely some virus particles left over and some symptoms leading to a retest giving a positive result?

 

[yorkie]

Just to sound a cautionary note. There is a body of opinion, and some evidence, that suggests that there is some immunity.

That's a huge understatement.

However, the prevailing view is that it requires a bit more research before any definitive statement on immunity can be made. After all, there are reported cases of re-infection though there may be valid reasons behind those and they could be outliers.

The tiny number of cases where someone was infected twice are outliers, and when you actually look into these, the most likely result is that the second infection is milder than the first, which is not surprising.

FWIW, I definitely thought I'd had it in Feb with fever, muscle aches, dry persistent cough and shortness of breath - all the classic symptoms except loss of taste/smell. Paid for the antibody test - came up negative. Was quite disappointed!

How severe were your symptoms? Milder cases do not generally see a strong antibody response. Also antibody levels may not be strong enough to be detectable after several months.

I've had one person I know die from Covid (former work colleague who was the mum of a former drinking mate) and four people who had it and recovered. Of those four, one serious (requiring a number of short stay hospitalisations and was ill for 2 months), one quite serious (and only 42) who was on verge of hospital but then recovered, and two really minor cases.

Of those I know who tested positive for Sars-Cov-2 most did not develop Covid-19 symptoms, and those that did were mild cases. This was a wide range of people including work colleagues, school students, forum members, etc.

However I do know several people who were seriously ill who tested negative, and had other viruses (one of whom was hospitalised with a rhinovirus).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Oct 2020 ==

I'm not convinced by these reinfections considering how few people have had it in the first place. Not quite like winning lottery twice but odds must be low. More likely some virus particles left over and some symptoms leading to a retest giving a positive result?

It is indeed the case that people can test positive, then negative, then positive again, due to dead virus cells being picked up by tests. I recall it was posted on here about some cases in South Korea. They may also be testing errors, or perhaps even picking up other coronaviruses.

However the following case was proven to be a reinfection and is interesting; pro-lockdown hysterical people who do not believe in immunity like to cite this case for all the wrong reasons, but actually it's good news:

Science | AAAS

www.sciencemag.org

Scientists have found the first solid evidence that people can be reinfected with the virus that causes COVID-19. A new study shows a 33-year-old man who was treated at the hospital for a mild case in March harboured the virus again when he was tested at the Hong Kong airport after returning from Europe on 15 August, less than 5 months later. He had no symptoms this time. Researchers had sequenced the virus, SARS-CoV-2, from the first infection; they did so again after the patient’s second diagnosis and found numerous differences between the two, bolstering the case that the patient had been infected a second time.

Mark Slifka, a viral immunologist at Oregon Health & Science University, says his takeaway from the paper is the opposite of what the authors write: “Even though [the patient] got infected with a very different strain that’s distinct from the first time around, they were protected from disease,” he says. “That is good news.”

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'm not convinced by these reinfections considering how few people have had it in the first place. Not quite like winning lottery twice but odds must be low. More likely some virus particles left over and some symptoms leading to a retest giving a positive result?

Again, hence my reference to there being other reasons; that could be one explanation.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Oct 2020 ==

That's a huge understatement.
The tiny number of cases where someone was infected twice are outliers, and when you actually look into these, the most likely result is that the second infection is milder than the first, which is not surprising.

How severe were your symptoms? Milder cases do not generally see a strong antibody response. Also antibody levels may not be strong enough to be detectable after several months.

Of those I know who tested positive for Sars-Cov-2 most did not develop Covid-19 symptoms, and those that did were mild cases. This was a wide range of people including work colleagues, school students, forum members, etc.

However I do know several people who were seriously ill who tested negative, and had other viruses (one of whom was hospitalised with a rhinovirus).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Oct 2020 ==

Science | AAAS

www.sciencemag.org

Think you’re reading things into my comments. Some meaning some, not minimal or minor. I could have said “an amount”. Just saying that research is continuing to provide a definitive answer.

My symptoms were a week where it came on, with a terrible sore throat after 2 days. It progressed to headache, dry cough that just didn’t expectorate and a bit of a fever; I just tried to plod on with work (as you do) but no fitness stuff. After 10 days, I was WFH but was only able to do reading of some legal documents in the morning, sleeping for much of the day. I moved into the spare room as that cough wouldn’t break and still having sweats. Took about 3-4 weeks to shake it off and I could start running again.

It was worse than usual winter virus stuff though not as bad as when I had flu 15 years ago. This illness was when Covid was just beginning to become THE story but I dismissed it as just being a bad winter virus.

 

[Yew]

It is indeed the case that people can test positive, then negative, then positive again, due to dead virus cells being picked up by tests. I recall it was posted on here about some cases in South Korea. They may also be testing errors, or perhaps even picking up other coronaviruses.

Indeed, given that PCR testing has previously created a fake Whooping cough epidemic, we have to be very careful about trusting it's results to signify a case; it simply says that there are fragments of virus material, and nothing about infection or infectiousness.

 

[Crossover]

I'm not convinced by these reinfections considering how few people have had it in the first place. Not quite like winning lottery twice but odds must be low. More likely some virus particles left over and some symptoms leading to a retest giving a positive result?

Or possibly false positive on one occasion?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I was tested this week along with my wife and I was negative.

 

[yorkie]

It was worse than usual winter virus stuff though not as bad as when I had flu 15 years ago. This illness was when Covid was just beginning to become THE story but I dismissed it as just being a bad winter virus.

The thing is, someone can have a "cold" virus (actually rhinovirus or coronavirus) and be hospitalised, another person may have 'flu and only have very mild symptoms, and another may have Sars-Cov-2 and be asymptomatic. All of these viruses are extremely mild for the vast majority of people. It's just that we have less immunity to Sars-Cov-2, and it's big news if someone is seriously ill or dies from it.

It's a myth that no symptoms = no infection; mild symptoms = "a cold"; strong symptoms = 'flu, etc. Most of us must get exposed to viruses on a regular basis but just fight them off. That's not fundamentally different with this virus, it's just that we have less immunity to it as a population. Many of us have T-cells that are able to fight it off very effectively without us getting ill.

 

[carlberry]

It is indeed the case that people can test positive, then negative, then positive again, due to dead virus cells being picked up by tests. I recall it was posted on here about some cases in South Korea. They may also be testing errors, or perhaps even picking up other coronaviruses.

However the following case was proven to be a reinfection and is interesting; pro-lockdown hysterical people who do not believe in immunity like to cite this case for all the wrong reasons, but actually it's good news:

Science | AAAS

www.sciencemag.org

On the other hand several second infections are not such good news:
Telegraph Article

First death from Covid-19 reinfection reported in the Netherlands

It comes as a 25-year-old man in Nevada with no known health problems has caught the virus twice, with the second infection more severe

An elderly woman in the Netherlands has become the first reported person to have died after getting reinfected with Covid-19.
The woman, who was 89, had a rare bone marrow type of non-Hodgkin lymphoma called Waldenström’s macroglobulinemia which compromised her immune system.

 

[yorkie]

On the other hand several second infections are not such good news:
Telegraph Article

The first one seems almost implausible; do we have any peer-reviewed research into this? In the early days of the virus there were a lot of claims of healthy people dying, subsequent research proved that the claims were false.

As for the second one, an 89 year old with a weakened immune system is at risk of dying from any virus; this is nothing new and is not unexpected.

 

[carlberry]

The first one seems almost implausible; do we have any peer-reviewed research into this? In the early days of the virus there were a lot of claims of healthy people dying, subsequent research proved that the claims were false.

As for the second one, an 89 year old with a weakened immune system is at risk of dying from any virus; this is nothing new and is not unexpected.

If an 89 year old with a weakened immune system recovers from a virus it would be assumed that thay had aquired some immunity to it (if recovering from the virus gave any immunity). The overall take from these examples (assuming all are true and verified separate infections) is that there isn't any evidence one way or another as to if recovering from the virus gives you any immunity at all.

 

[Richard Scott]

If an 89 year old with a weakened immune system recovers from a virus it would be assumed that thay had aquired some immunity to it (if recovering from the virus gave any immunity). The overall take from these examples (assuming all are true and verified separate infections) is that there isn't any evidence one way or another as to if recovering from the virus gives you any immunity at all.

Or that she had the virus in either first or second case, could be a false positive for either or both tests (admittedly unlikely for both)?

 

[Philip Elliott]

The confirmed reinfections have involved genome sequencing showing minor mutations so definitely not false positives. There have also bern lots of other reported cases of reinfection but they have not had the sequencing. One hospital in Sibiu county, Transylvania reported 6 cases of re-infections - 5 were milder but the sixth - a medic at the hospital, sadly died.

Here are some details of Confirmed re-infections: (It’s in Romanian but easy to understand)

Țara​	Vârsta pacientului​	Primul episod​	Interval​	Al doilea episod​	Publicație
Hong Kong	33 de ani	Simptomatic	142 de zile	Asimptomatice	Evaluare inter pares
Nevada, Statele Unite ale Americii	25 de ani	Simptomatic	48 de zile	Simptomatic cu spitalizare	Publicaţie preliminară
Belgia	52 de ani	Simptomatic	93 de zile	Simptomatic	Evaluare inter pares
Ecuador	46 de ani	Simptomatic	63 de zile	Simptomatic	Publicaţie preliminară
India	25 de ani	Asimptomatic	108 zile	Asimptomatic	Publicaţie preliminară
India	28 de ani	Asimptomatic	111 zile	Asimptomatic	Publicaţie preliminară

 

[Richard Scott]

The confirmed reinfections have involved genome sequencing showing minor mutations so definitely not false positives. There have also bern lots of other reported cases of reinfection but they have not had the sequencing. One hospital in Sibiu county, Transylvania reported 6 cases of re-infections - 5 were milder but the sixth - a medic at the hospital, sadly died.

Here are some details of Confirmed re-infections: (It’s in Romanian but easy to understand)

Țara​	Vârsta pacientului​	Primul episod​	Interval​	Al doilea episod​	Publicație
Hong Kong	33 de ani	Simptomatic	142 de zile	Asimptomatice	Evaluare inter pares
Nevada, Statele Unite ale Americii	25 de ani	Simptomatic	48 de zile	Simptomatic cu spitalizare	Publicaţie preliminară
Belgia	52 de ani	Simptomatic	93 de zile	Simptomatic	Evaluare inter pares
Ecuador	46 de ani	Simptomatic	63 de zile	Simptomatic	Publicaţie preliminară
India	25 de ani	Asimptomatic	108 zile	Asimptomatic	Publicaţie preliminară
India	28 de ani	Asimptomatic	111 zile	Asimptomatic	Publicaţie preliminară

Is it possible they weren't reinfections but left over viral loading? Virus will slightly mutate anyway in the host so would account for that? There are plenty of other viruses that could cause similar symptoms or maybe they weren't fully over it in the first place? Even if they were reinfections still a low number but as I said before given how few people have had it even six reinfections sounds unlikely, possibly except the medic who's exposure is likely to be higher.

 

[takno]

The confirmed reinfections have involved genome sequencing showing minor mutations so definitely not false positives. There have also bern lots of other reported cases of reinfection but they have not had the sequencing. One hospital in Sibiu county, Transylvania reported 6 cases of re-infections - 5 were milder but the sixth - a medic at the hospital, sadly died.

Here are some details of Confirmed re-infections: (It’s in Romanian but easy to understand)

Țara​	Vârsta pacientului​	Primul episod​	Interval​	Al doilea episod​	Publicație
Hong Kong	33 de ani	Simptomatic	142 de zile	Asimptomatice	Evaluare inter pares
Nevada, Statele Unite ale Americii	25 de ani	Simptomatic	48 de zile	Simptomatic cu spitalizare	Publicaţie preliminară
Belgia	52 de ani	Simptomatic	93 de zile	Simptomatic	Evaluare inter pares
Ecuador	46 de ani	Simptomatic	63 de zile	Simptomatic	Publicaţie preliminară
India	25 de ani	Asimptomatic	108 zile	Asimptomatic	Publicaţie preliminară
India	28 de ani	Asimptomatic	111 zile	Asimptomatic	Publicaţie preliminară

Yes, it's easy to understand that they are reporting on the 6 cases quoted globally, most of which have already been quoted on the thread. If we're going to bring in unsourced chatter from rural Transylvania about global events we'll be here til Christmas

 

[Busandrail]

im convinces i had it just before xmas last year. I was on my last week working as a bus driver before leaving to join the railway. I was proper rough, fever cough, aches and pains and most notably i had complete loss of taste and smell. I remember asking my misses if that was normal but after about a month or so it came back and then in march april obviously we got told that its a symptom.

 

[pnepaul]

I had the virus in early April. I was in hospital from March 30th - April 7th. Thankfully I was not in intensive care and did not need a ventilator. I had the usual symptoms plus pneumonia. Recovery took longer than expected. NOw full recovered - well I climbed a Munro in Scotland at the end of September!

 

[MattA7]

Someone I follow on social media has a family member currently in a critical condition from the virus. I have just heard that she has reached a point even the ventilator isn’t enough and doctors have now had to resort to ECMO.

I just thought I would give a update Incase anyone was interested. She was registered as the worst Covid case in the UK.After being on life support for 15 days the doctors were preparing to switch off the life support. The family had lost hope to the extent they contacted the local mosque to start funeral arrangements then the doctors informed them that she was breathing without the ventilator still unconscious but a start in the right direction.

 

[Busandrail]

I just thought I would give a update Incase anyone was interested. She was registered as the worst Covid case in the UK.After being on life support for 15 days the doctors were preparing to switch off the life support. The family had lost hope to the extent they contacted the local mosque to start funeral arrangements then the doctors informed them that she was breathing without the ventilator still unconscious but a start in the right direction.

Hope she makes a full recovery mate. Its a step in the right direction

 

[matt]

I've just taken part in the react anitbody study and I got a negative result so I take from that I haven't had Covid recently.

 

[millemille]

My wife first showed symptoms on the 14th of March and ended up having 9 weeks off work, 2 ambulances to the house to administer oxygen and 3 courses of steroids to deal with the breathing/lung problems. She's still not fully recovered and it appears she has suffered permanent lung damage and is waiting to see a respiratory consultant next month for confirmation.

We're pretty sure she caught it when she was hospitalised 10 days before due to a suspected bleed on the brain (turned out to be a severe migraine) and there was no barrier nursing/infection control/testing/PPE is use in the A&E department.

She had an antibody test last month, six months after infection, and it confirmed that she had antibodies present. But only trace amounts.

If I've had it - and given I spent several weeks nursing my wife it seems highly likely I have - I've had no symptoms.

I know 3 other people who've had it.

One, a fit middle aged man with no underlying medical conditions, died in Intensive Care. Another, again a fit middle aged man, has had a similar experience to my wife. The third, a morbidly obese retirement age man with a heart condition and diabetes, spent a two weeks in hospital - a week of which was in Intensive care - and has come out of hospital with no residual issues and is back at work as though nothing had happened.

 

[adc82140]

I've just taken part in the react anitbody study and I got a negative result so I take from that I haven't had Covid recently.

Not necessarily. You may have fought it off with T cells.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Oct 2020 ==

im convinces i had it just before xmas last year. I was on my last week working as a bus driver before leaving to join the railway. I was proper rough, fever cough, aches and pains and most notably i had complete loss of taste and smell. I remember asking my misses if that was normal but after about a month or so it came back and then in march april obviously we got told that its a symptom.

I had all the symptoms in February, including the loss of taste and smell. It was like the worst flu ever, and went on for over a week, and then there was the cough. I suppose it could well have been the worst flu ever, but the odds are stacked towards Covid. Interestingly my wife didn't display any symptoms. However earlier in 2019 she had a nasty viral respiratory infection, so I wonder if there is some cross immunity.

 

[Philip]

Well two people I live with have tested positive today; I'm waiting for my result but assuming I'm positive.

Monday afternoon I developed an irritation in the throat, this became (at times) very sore body aches on Tuesday and Wednesday, along with a mild headache and a slight run-down feeling on Tuesday afternoon. These have gone now but yesterday my sense of smell changed (the fresh air everywhere smelt almost an earthy fruity smell) and today it is just reduced as a result of nasal congestion. Sense of taste was ok yesterday but today it is virtually gone, but this is probably partly down to the congestion. Every time I've checked my temperature it has been in the normal range, though for a brief period on Tuesday afternoon I felt a bit on the warm side so that may have been a mild fever.

Last week there was one morning midweek when I had quite thick congestion in my ear, no idea if this was something separate or part of my assumed covid infection.

 

[Journeyman]

The smell/taste thing can happen very suddenly, and was what indicated to us about three weeks ago that my wife feeling under the weather was in fact COVID. As soon as her sense of smell/taste vanished, it became obvious what we were dealing with - she tested positive the next day.

I subsequently contracted it. I'll spare you the details, but it was a gruesome and scary experience, and I finally felt well enough to leave the house for the first time in three weeks today. A brief trip to the shops felt about as knackering as a ten mile hike, so I have some way to go yet.

 

[kez19]

I had it back in June, coughing all the time (for me I described as a smokers cough even though I don't smoke as it was continous at times) I didn't lose taste/smell but I did get a metallic taste at one point, but I was pretty much tired for the 14 days however leading up to it (unsure if this was part of it coming to ahead prior), but I had like a sore back/muscles and at times sore head and even at one point felt as if I wasn't thinking straight (struggling to say what I meant) have been fine since June been regularly tested