Have i been sent wrong tickets???

[KeeperTony43]

Hi all,

Firstly, my apologies if i have posted in the wrong section of the site.

My issue. I booked online a return journey from Warrington Bank Quay Station to Hastings, for two people (my wife and i). Departing December 3rd and returning December 9th. We found a great deal which meant the total cost was £94.00

The tickets we received are:-

Warrington Stations to Hastings (one for each of us)
Hastings to Warrington Stations (one for each of us)
Warrington Bank Quay to London Euston (Two adults)
London Euston to Warrington Bank Quay (Two adults)
(NOTE: The Warrington to Hastings/Hastings to Warrington show under ROUTE a cross symbol alongside VWC & Connections but does this cover our entire journey?)

I am concerned that there is no ticket(s) covering the underground, and London to Hastings/Hastings to London...following email contact and phone contact the information we are getting is that we were sent the wrong tickets/incomplete tickets, and need to return them for a refund, and book the journey again.

The refund process will not take place in time before we travel, and we cannot afford to book the journey again. Is it possible that we can take these tickets to our local station, and have any tickets missing printed out without incurring any further cost? I am doubtful because we booked online and got a good deal and maybe at the station this deal cannot be honoured. I am also doubtful because this may not be the overall rail policy.

If anyone can advise where we stand i would be grateful. Many thanks for your patience and time.

Regards

Tony

 

[dvboy]

Sounds like you have tickets and then reservation coupons for the London legs, which would be right.

 

[34D]

On first read, this seems entirely correct. What I believe you have is:

Travel tickets Warrington to Hastings (and return)
Reservations on Virgin Trains for Warrington to Euston.

You will be able to use any appropriate Underground trains Euston to Charing Cross (my advice would be Victoria line to Oxford circus, then an easy platform change to Bakerloo line) and any appropriate Southeastern train from Charing Cross to Hastings. You don't have a reserved seat on the latter as SE don't do them.

 

[91103eastcoast]

If there is a maltese cross next to VWC & Connections, the ticket would cover the underground leg, since this is the symbol used to indicate a ticket is valid for one journey across London.

 

[Welshman]

Presumably the Warrington to Hastings and vv tickets are your actual travel tickets, and the Warrington to London Euston and vv tickets are your seat reservations. [Presumably there are no specific seats reserved between London and Hastings].

AFAIK, if your Warrington-Hastings travel tickets have a maltese cross [+] printed on them, they are valid for one journey on the underground between your mainline stations.

P.S. How's about that - four replies within 6 minutes! - And, more importantly, we all appear to be saying the same thing!!

 

[yorkie]

Welcome to the forum

The tickets we received are:-

Warrington Stations to Hastings (one for each of us)
Hastings to Warrington Stations (one for each of us)

These are tickets covering your entire journey. They are only valid with the accompanying reservation coupons, though the only person likely to request to see the reservations are the on-board staff on the Virgin Trains service.

Warrington Bank Quay to London Euston (Two adults)
London Euston to Warrington Bank Quay (Two adults)

They should be your seat reservations.

(NOTE: The Warrington to Hastings/Hastings to Warrington show under ROUTE a cross symbol alongside VWC & Connections but does this cover our entire journey?)

Yes.

I am concerned that there is no ticket(s) covering the underground, and London to Hastings/Hastings to London...following email contact and phone contact the information we are getting is that we were sent the wrong tickets/incomplete tickets, and need to return them for a refund, and book the journey again.

You only get one ticket for your journey, unless you book a combination of tickets (aka "split ticketing")

The refund process will not take place in time before we travel, and we cannot afford to book the journey again. Is it possible that we can take these tickets to our local station, and have any tickets missing printed out without incurring any further cost? I am doubtful because we booked online and got a good deal and maybe at the station this deal cannot be honoured. I am also doubtful because this may not be the overall rail policy.

I don't think anything is missing, from what you've said.

If you think the tickets may have mis-printed, you could scan them in and attach them to a reply on this forum if you like.

 

[KeeperTony43]

A humble thank you to all of you who replied so quickly, and who have given me better peace of mind in complete contrast to the emails and phone conversation i have had with Southern Rail.

Yorkie...i have attached the tickets for further analysis. Can you confirm that we do not need to have a ticket that covers London to Hastings/Hastings to London? It seems incomplete to have a ticket covering Warrington to London/London to Warrington, but nothing to cover the remaining half of the journey.

Also, we never actually reserved specific seats....are we now obliged to use the seats reserved for us?

Thank you again for your help.

Tony

 

[PG]

I booked online a return journey from Warrington Bank Quay Station to Hastings <snip>

I am concerned that there is no ticket(s) covering the underground, and London to Hastings/Hastings to London...following email contact and phone contact the information we are getting is that we were sent the wrong tickets/incomplete tickets, and need to return them for a refund, and book the journey again.

I hope the replies above help to reassure you.

I wonder if you'd be kind enough to tell us which website you booked your tickets through, and if it was the same website you contacted for advice by email and phone?

It's just a bit worrying that quite a few folk here are able to quickly give a definitive answer for you but whoever sold you the tickets isn't :roll:

 

[KeeperTony43]

I hope the replies above help to reassure you.

I wonder if you'd be kind enough to tell us which website you booked your tickets through, and if it was the same website you contacted for advice by email and phone?

It's just a bit worrying that quite a few folk here are able to quickly give a definitive answer for you but whoever sold you the tickets isn't :roll:

I am much more relieved now that i have received so many positive responses. And this without even seeing the tickets, which does beg the question why the staff i emailed and spoke with connected with Southern Rail (booked tickets through these also) could not provide the same reassurance.

Thanks for your time.

 

[PG]

Also, we never actually reserved specific seats....are we now obliged to use the seats reserved for us?

Technically, yes, you should sit in those specific seats to comply fully with the conditions of your tickets. However, depending on how busy the train is you may find there are other seats free which, if you politely ask on-board staff they may at their discretion allow you to use.

Also just want to make sure that you understand that you have to travel on the specific train shown on the reservation coupon between Warrington and London (and again on the way back from London to Warrington) ?
Otherwise on any other train you will be treated as if you had no ticket at all.

 

[dzug2]

I am much more relieved now that i have received so many positive responses. And this without even seeing the tickets, which does beg the question why the staff i emailed and spoke with connected with Southern Rail (booked tickets through these also) could not provide the same reassurance.

Thanks for your time.

They were probably answering the question they thought you asked rather than the one you did

 

[KeeperTony43]

Technically, yes, you should sit in those specific seats to comply fully with the conditions of your tickets. However, depending on how busy the train is you may find there are other seats free which, if you politely ask on-board staff they may at their discretion allow you to use.

Also just want to make sure that you understand that you have to travel on the specific train shown on the reservation coupon between Warrington and London (and again on the way back from London to Warrington) ?
Otherwise on any other train you will be treated as if you had no ticket at all.

We will more than likely use the reserved seats to coincide with the actual ticket information. I just don't recall specifying any particular seats for reservation.

And yes, we are aware that we need to be taking the specific trains allocated on the tickets. Thank you for checking our understanding.

May i just ask you, even though it is a repeat of a question i have also recently asked another member, can you confirm that we do not need to have a physical ticket showing the London to Hastings/Hastings to London legs of the journey, or a separate ticket stating the underground? It appears so incomplete without it though i completely accept and appreciate the information i have been provided with.

Many thanks

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Nope, you have a ticket bearing a Maltese cross which makes it valid on the underground. You need not worry about not having a separate ticket for the underground leg. You use the Warrington to Hasting ticket for all appropriate legs for your journey.

The first time I was using a cross-transfer ticket many years ago, I had the same concern as yourself and was a bit worried the barriers will eat it up but it doesn't, just need to put it through as normal

 

[PG]

May i just ask you, even though it is a repeat of a question i have also recently asked another member, can you confirm that we do not need to have a physical ticket showing the London to Hastings/Hastings to London legs of the journey, or a separate ticket stating the underground? It appears so incomplete without it though i completely accept and appreciate the information i have been provided with.

Many thanks

You are welcome

If you notice on your tickets where the word SINGLE is printed, look left (towards the centre of the ticket) and the line above - It says ROUTE and underneath that is printed †VWC & CONNECTIONS.

The little Ԡ' symbol (the Maltese cross) means you are allowed to use the underground to cross between stations in London.
If you wish to read more then National Rail Enquiries have this webpage :
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46587.aspx#travelling_connect

Yes you are correct, you do not need any other tickets to travel between London and Hastings (and return), what you have covers that part of your journey.

 

[KeeperTony43]

Nope, you have a ticket bearing a Maltese cross which makes it valid on the underground. You need not worry about not having a separate ticket for the underground leg. You use the Warrington to Hasting ticket for all appropriate legs for your journey.

The first time I was using a cross-transfer ticket many years ago, I had the same concern as yourself and was a bit worried the barriers will eat it up but it doesn't, just need to put it through as normal

Huge thanks. Being so awkwardly organised as i am, any little thing that appears it could cause a problem starts to concern me. I fully understand the Maltese Cross logo now, and i think i am confident enough in accepting that we don't need a physical ticket detailing the London to Hastings/Hastings to London stage of the journey. I guess it just seems strange that we need to have a separate ticket for part of the journey but not the other.

Many thanks again.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You are welcome

If you notice on your tickets where the word SINGLE is printed, look left (towards the centre of the ticket) and the line above - It says ROUTE and underneath that is printed †VWC & CONNECTIONS.

The little Ԡ' symbol (the Maltese cross) means you are allowed to use the underground to cross between stations in London.
If you wish to read more then National Rail Enquiries have this webpage :
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46587.aspx#travelling_connect

Yes you are correct, you do not need any other tickets to travel between London and Hastings (and return), what you have covers that part of your journey.

That is fantastic. We can finally look forward to our journey once more.

Thank you.

 

[Sleepy]

The London to Warrington portions with time of train and allocated seating are NOT tickets, they are reservations which are compulsory for the type of ticket you have - Advance on which you must stick to stated train booked. The other leg of your journey with Southern you may use any train.

 

[KeeperTony43]

The London to Warrington portions with time of train and allocated seating are NOT tickets, they are reservations which are compulsory for the type of ticket you have - Advance on which you must stick to stated train booked. The other leg of your journey with Southern you may use any train.

A very helpful piece of additional information. Many thanks for this.

 

[John @ home]

it just seems strange that we need to have a separate ticket for part of the journey but not the other.

It's not quite like that. You have four tickets, two from WARRINGTON STNS to HASTINGS and two from HASTINGS to WARRINGTON STNS.

But each of these tickets has printed on them VALID ONLY WITH RESERVATION(S). So you also need the two reservation vouchers, each of which reserves two seats, in one instance from WARRINGTON BK QY to LONDON EUSTON and in the other from LONDON EUSTON to WARRINGTON BK QY. These reservation vouchers are not tickets, that is they do not allow railway travel. But they do need to be taken with you on the journey and your tickets are valid only if accompanied by the reservation vouchers.

You don't have reservation vouchers between London and Hastings (and vice-versa) because these trains do not offer seat reservations, so you can sit anywhere you choose. You may like to read the Advance ticket terms and conditions.

Do enjoy your journeys to and from Hastings. I'm sorry that the complexity of the British railway ticketing system has caused so much confusion. The good news is that it is planned to re-design the ticket to include the seat reservation details within the next year or two, avoiding this particular confusion. If delivered on time, this particular British railway ticketing improvement will be only ten years later than Irish Rail!

 

[Paul Kelly]

I thought seat reservations always had something like "SEAT" or "SEAT RESERVATION" printed in large letters across the bottom, where the actual ticket says "SINGLE". I can certainly see how the absence of that could lead somebody to think they were also tickets.

 

[BrianTheLion]

I thought seat reservations always had something like "SEAT" or "SEAT RESERVATION" printed in large letters across the bottom, where the actual ticket says "SINGLE". I can certainly see how the absence of that could lead somebody to think they were also tickets.

Ive always told people that the one with the price stated as £0.00 is the seat reservation and the one with the correct price on is the actual ticket, i.e the one you would put through a barrier where applicable.

 

[KeeperTony43]

It's not quite like that. You have four tickets, two from WARRINGTON STNS to HASTINGS and two from HASTINGS to WARRINGTON STNS.

But each of these tickets has printed on them VALID ONLY WITH RESERVATION(S). So you also need the two reservation vouchers, each of which reserves two seats, in one instance from WARRINGTON BK QY to LONDON EUSTON and in the other from LONDON EUSTON to WARRINGTON BK QY. These reservation vouchers are not tickets, that is they do not allow railway travel. But they do need to be taken with you on the journey and your tickets are valid only if accompanied by the reservation vouchers.

You don't have reservation vouchers between London and Hastings (and vice-versa) because these trains do not offer seat reservations, so you can sit anywhere you choose. You may like to read the Advance ticket terms and conditions.

Do enjoy your journeys to and from Hastings. I'm sorry that the complexity of the British railway ticketing system has caused so much confusion. The good news is that it is planned to re-design the ticket to include the seat reservation details within the next year or two, avoiding this particular confusion. If delivered on time, this particular British railway ticketing improvement will be only ten years later than Irish Rail!

Thanks John. With each little piece of feedback i am becoming much more knowledgeable in rail travel, and in the process our upcoming journey is looking much more pleasurable once again. Thanks so much for your input.

Update. Just noticed something else which i hadn't queried. On the reserve coupons it states they are only valid with a particular ticket number. Upon checking the tickets i notice that the reserves are only valid with one set of Warrington to Hastings + return. This leaves the other set with no reserve. Is this normal? I have noted that the reserves cater for two passengers.

 

[button_boxer]

I thought seat reservations always had something like "SEAT" or "SEAT RESERVATION" printed in large letters across the bottom, where the actual ticket says "SINGLE". I can certainly see how the absence of that could lead somebody to think they were also tickets.

The reservation coupons say "Mandatory reservation coupon 1 of 1" at the bottom.

Update. Just noticed something else which i hadn't queried. On the reserve coupons it states they are only valid with a particular ticket number. Upon checking the tickets i notice that the reserves are only valid with one set of Warrington to Hastings + return. This leaves the other set with no reserve. Is this normal? I have noted that the reserves cater for two passengers.

Yes, that's normal. Some issuing systems give you one reservation coupon for several seats (as in your example), other systems give you one coupon per seat, but in all cases they only print one "valid with" ticket number on each reservation coupon.

If at any point you're unsure of which particular bits of card a given member of staff needs to see, the safest plan is always to present them all and let the staff pick out the ones they're interested in.

 

[John @ home]

Just noticed something else which i hadn't queried. On the reserve coupons it states they are only valid with a particular ticket number. Upon checking the tickets i notice that the reserves are only valid with one set of Warrington to Hastings + return. This leaves the other set with no reserve. Is this normal?

Yes. All the tickets and vouchers are linked. Taking the Warrington to Hastings leg, tickets numbered 44572 and 44574 both say they are VALID ONLY WITH RESERVATION(S), while reservation voucher numbered 44573 says it is VALID ONLY WITH TICKET 44572.

I have noted that the reserves cater for two passengers.

Yes, some people prefer it that way. It's yet another unnecessary variable. If I had bought these tickets and then printed them from a machine at Leeds station, I could choose to use a Northern machine and receive one reservation voucher for the whole party for each leg of the journey.

Alternatively, I could choose to use an East Coast machine and receive one reservation voucher for each passenger. That is very much my preference. It allows each passenger to make the journey if another is running late and misses the train.

 

[KeeperTony43]

Yes. All the tickets and vouchers are linked. Taking the Warrington to Hastings leg, tickets numbered 44572 and 44574 both say they are VALID ONLY WITH RESERVATION(S), while reservation voucher numbered 44573 says it is VALID ONLY WITH TICKET 44572.Yes, some people prefer it that way. It's yet another unnecessary variable. If I had bought these tickets and then printed them from a machine at Leeds station, I could choose to use a Northern machine and receive one reservation voucher for the whole party for each leg of the journey.

Alternatively, I could choose to use an East Coast machine and receive one reservation voucher for each passenger. That is very much my preference. It allows each passenger to make the journey if another is running late and misses the train.

Fantastic. I am now about as relieved and confident as i can be regarding our upcoming journey. Many thanks again.

In fact, let me just take this moment to thank everyone for your input. I have learnt quite a bit today, and in the process realised just how supportive a group of strangers can be. Your knowledge and helpfulness has been so very gratefully appreciated. Thank you.

 

[dvboy]

Technically, yes, you should sit in those specific seats to comply fully with the conditions of your tickets. However, depending on how busy the train is you may find there are other seats free which, if you politely ask on-board staff they may at their discretion allow you to use.

In practice, if the train is not heavily loaded and there are more preferable seats (table, power socket, facing direction, view etc) available nearby that aren't reserved (shows Available on the display above the seat), there is no harm in sitting in them. There is no need to seek out on-board staff to check if this is OK.

 

[yorkie]

In practice, if the train is not heavily loaded and there are more preferable seats (table, power socket, facing direction, view etc) available nearby that aren't reserved (shows Available on the display above the seat), there is no harm in sitting in them. There is no need to seek out on-board staff to check if this is OK.

As both trains are non-stop, I agree entirely.

 

[ffm]

You have a physical ticket covering the whole Warrington to Hastings journey, you don't have any other tickets, the Warrington to London cards are not tickets, they are seat reservation coupons. As there are no seat reservations on Southern you don't get reservation coupons. When you booked advance fares reservations are automatically created, these are not something you request and are compulsory. Be assured you have the two tickets, each way, you need, for the journey in full. You also have reservation coupons for the Virgin trains services, which are part of the journey in each direction.

 

[KeeperTony43]

Many thanks for the continued feedback. All information has been very much appreciated.

 

[KeeperTony43]

On first read, this seems entirely correct. What I believe you have is:

Travel tickets Warrington to Hastings (and return)
Reservations on Virgin Trains for Warrington to Euston.

You will be able to use any appropriate Underground trains Euston to Charing Cross (my advice would be Victoria line to Oxford circus, then an easy platform change to Bakerloo line) and any appropriate Southeastern train from Charing Cross to Hastings. You don't have a reserved seat on the latter as SE don't do them.

A quick follow-on question related to my thread of a few weeks ago, which i am using to post this query. Do i have to travel from Euston Underground to Charing Cross for the main Charing Cross Station? Can i instead travel via London Bridge? This would allow more time in between trains and much more beneficial to us?

Thanks for your time.

Tony

 

[greatkingrat]

Yes, that is fine, you can catch the Hastings train at any of Charing Cross, Waterloo East or London Bridge.