Havant to Ramsgate Query

[Mark586]

Hi
First I would like to thank everyone who has put together the Fares and Ticketing guide as this has been very helpful and useful to understand what fares are valid

I have looked at a off peak day return from Havant to Ramsgate (route:Barnham) maybe I have misunderstood the routing guide (I have studied the yellow pages) but I assumed this ticket would be valid via City Thameslink
However I can't on trainscanbecheaper obtain an itinerary for this route even be trying various via points
Is it that I have misunderstood the valid routes?

 

[yorkie]

It's not intended to be used via City Thameslink. I can analyse it later.

 

[Alfonso]

Hi
First I would like to thank everyone who has put together the Fares and Ticketing guide as this has been very helpful and useful to understand what fares are valid

I have looked at a off peak day return from Havant to Ramsgate (route:Barnham) maybe I have misunderstood the routing guide (I have studied the yellow pages) but I assumed this ticket would be valid via City Thameslink
However I can't on trainscanbecheaper obtain an itinerary for this route even be trying various via points
Is it that I have misunderstood the valid routes?

You can go along the coast, you can go via redhill-tonbridge, you can't go via London on possibly the south easts most bargainmungus ticket routing.

 

[Mark586]

Thanks, yes I understand that it would not be the most logical route (unless you are meeting a friend/Aunt/Boss/former landlady near City Thameslink and then heading off to Ramsgate)but...
I can obtain an itinerary that has Barnham and City Thameslink (obviously it has Havant & Ramsgate as well !) but only as an any permitted route ticket
As I say I had looked at all the mapped routes but I guess alas it is not valid so maybe that is the answer and buy an any permitted ticket and still be able to meet my former landlady and enjoy Ramsgate in all in one day
Sorry, I meant to say in my opening Starter for Ten that I could not obtain an itinerary for that specific ticket price though another applicable itinerary was obtainable for another priced ticket going via the mentioned stations

 

[yorkie]

Route code 00947 via Barnham includes exclude locations (BMS, DFD, EBD, ORP, SFA) which prevents routes being validated via Bromley South, Dartford, Ebsfleet, Orpington or Stratford Intl.

If someone tried to make this journey and argued it was valid, they would not get past the OBM (On Board Manager), St Pancras high level gateline and St Pancras low level gateline.

The dispute would probably see you waste hours of your time fighting an excess fare.

Even if you eventually won, you'd not be compensated for your time, and a "negative easement" would be introduced to further 'clarify' the intention not to allow this route.

If you were able to get an itinerary and posted the fact it here, then it would be removed pretty damn quick anyway.

The concept of trying to use a loophole ticket to get a reduced game is effectively a game of cat and mouse. And there's only one way to win: don't be the mouse! That's because the mouse never wins (well, not unless you believe those lying cartoons...)

 

[Mark586]

Ah ok thanks for taking the time for a comprehensive answer. I suspected something was invalid but did not know exactly why.
I agree it would not be much fun being a mouse and having sand kicked in you face and so best avoided. A final question on this subject and then that's a wrap for me - How would someone following the routing guide know that route 00947 excludes certain locations? Or is it best to say this is all a bit of an abnormal route and its just best avoiding what appears to be a very odd route?

 

[JB_B]

A final question on this subject and then that's a wrap for me - How would someone following the routing guide know that route 00947 excludes certain locations? Or is it best to say this is all a bit of an abnormal route and its just best avoiding what appears to be a very odd route?

A member of the public armed only with the routeing guide would not be able to tell this.

The low price might be a clue but there are plenty of 'surprising good value' fares out there which are perfectly valid.

The include/exclude records for each route are included in the .RTE file in the fares data. You can sign up here for limited, 3-update-per-year free access ( if you want full access it appears that you have to pay. )

Back in May 2016, I think journey planners would have been validating Havant to Ramsgate for this as, back then, route 00947 Via Barnham had no exclude records (and the relevant yellow pages and maps were essentially the same as they are now).

When the exclude records yorkie mentions were added to 00947 there was no change to the route description - it stayed simply 'Via Barham'; ordinary passengers would have had no indication that the routeing had been changed behind the scenes.

That means the only way you can check validity is to see if you can get an itinerary for the ticket from a journey planner; you just get a yes/no answer with no diagnostic feedback. There's no way for normal passengers to check if the result is accurate.

 

[Mark586]

Thanks for that, that explains what is going on in the background. At least you have all added to my knowledge - thanks again everyone.