Haulage announcement from GB Railfreight re sleeper.

[Ash Bridge]

A quick question here. If (and that's a big if!) one of the class 86's was called in to replace a class 92 would it be able to haul the long and I'm guessing heavy train over Shap?

Could well be wrong, but apart from its elderly status I though an 86/1 was as capable as a 90 (or 87 for that matter)? Edit: Just thought, did you mean the new stock, or existing?

 

[RichmondCommu]

Could well be wrong, but apart from its elderly status I though an 86/1 was as capable as a 90 (or 87 for that matter)? Edit: Just thought, did you mean the new stock, or existing?

The new stock, which I'm guessing will be quite a bit heavier than the current mk3's and mk2's. Sorry I should have made that clear!

 

[D365]

You'd end up with all the Sleeper passengers having to go through the full passport and baggage screening just to get to and from Scotland.

If SNP had their way..! :eek:

 

[cj_1985]

With all the talk about the use of the 86s and 87002 on ECS duties at the London end of the route/s... has there been any mention, rumours or similar for what will be used on the ECS from Polmadie into Glasgow central... surely too far to be propelled into the station... or have I missed something?

 

[doningtonphil]

Scotrail have just passed out 2 drivers on the 67's with only 6 weeks to go. Given the costs involved I suspect a contingency................

With foresight like that about 67s being used you might want to try the lottery this week.

 

[alexl92]

With foresight like that about 67s being used you might want to try the lottery this week.

 

[fgwrich]

Scotrail have just passed out 2 drivers on the 67's with only 6 weeks to go. Given the costs involved I suspect a contingency................

With foresight like that about 67s being used you might want to try the lottery this week.

Just to throw something further into the ring, WNXX were reporting this morning that Class 67s to remain with Scottish sleepers until the GBRf Super 73s are ready. I can't tell you more, as it's on WNXX. But I presume that now means a GBRf/Needle tie up with the proposed 47s wont be happening - understandable given Needle's 47 fleet status at the moment, unless some sub-hiring from Riviera was/is due to take place.

I'd have liked to have seen a few 47/7s back on the mainline in Scotland though!

 

[SprinterMan]

Just to throw something further into the ring, WNXX were reporting this morning that Class 67s to remain with Scottish sleepers until the GBRf Super 73s are ready. I can't tell you more, as it's on WNXX. But I presume that now means a GBRf/Needle tie up with the proposed 47s wont be happening - understandable given Needle's 47 fleet status at the moment, unless some sub-hiring from Riviera was/is due to take place.

I'd have liked to have seen a few 47/7s back on the mainline in Scotland though!

I can't find where it says this on WNXX

Adam :P

 

[fgwrich]

I can't find where it says this on WNXX

Adam :P

I only noticed it from their facebook page -

WNXX
8 hrs · Class 67s to remain with Scottish sleepers (news) - http://t.co/CkcoKd3M9n

 

[Topgun333]

Just to throw something further into the ring, WNXX were reporting this morning that Class 67s to remain with Scottish sleepers until the GBRf Super 73s are ready. I can't tell you more, as it's on WNXX. But I presume that now means a GBRf/Needle tie up with the proposed 47s wont be happening - understandable given Needle's 47 fleet status at the moment, unless some sub-hiring from Riviera was/is due to take place.

I'd have liked to have seen a few 47/7s back on the mainline in Scotland though!

FWIW the HNRC wiki page fleet list does have 5 47/8s listed as maintained on behalf of Riviera and on hire to GBRf

Http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Needle_Railroad_Company


I was also doing some number crunching yesterday and when you average passenger numbers on 4 Caledonian sleepers a day for 6 days a week you get just over 200 passengers per train. I thought that sounded quite good until I worked out that every day 11 locos are required also - 4 x 92s, 5 x 73/9s and 2 86/87s for ECS.

 

[SprinterMan]

I only noticed it from their facebook page -

Ah right, cheers for the link

 

[CosherB]

Just to throw something further into the ring, WNXX were reporting this morning that Class 67s to remain with Scottish sleepers until the GBRf Super 73s are ready. I can't tell you more, as it's on WNXX. But I presume that now means a GBRf/Needle tie up with the proposed 47s wont be happening - understandable given Needle's 47 fleet status at the moment, unless some sub-hiring from Riviera was/is due to take place.

I'd have liked to have seen a few 47/7s back on the mainline in Scotland though!

I'm sure this was always the contingency plan for GBRf, and the continuity makes perfect sense. Must be a bit of a blow for them having to sub-lease traction from DBS, but should keep GBRf sweet with Serco.

 

[Aictos]

From what I understand of the issue, neither the 73s nor the 92s are anywhere ready so the 67s and 90s will continue to be used daily HOWEVER the 86s that are intended to be used for ECS movements in London will be ready in time as driver training on them is starting very soon.

The 47s won't be used because of the logistics if one breaks down which is what I've been told.

 

[37038]

DBS undercut needle by 10% on price, nothing to do with 47 reliability. None of them have failed yet on the Drax gypsum working. 90s are also staying on the sleeper. 5 DBS drivers at Millerhill/Inverness (can't remember which) transferring to GBRf under TUPE.

Cryptically, Mr Needle said on wnxxforum things could change yet, there's still 33 days to go... 47812 is being repainted, whether it appears in CSR or Riviera Blue remains to be seen

Thanks

 

[matchmaker]

From what I understand of the issue, neither the 73s nor the 92s are anywhere ready so the 67s and 90s will continue to be used daily HOWEVER the 86s that are intended to be used for ECS movements in London will be ready in time as driver training on them is starting very soon.

The 47s won't be used because of the logistics if one breaks down which is what I've been told.

You mean "when"...

 

[button_boxer]

Exactly in the International platforms where Sleeper services from the Continent were going to terminate here. West Coast would have to stay at Euston.

Don't the international platforms use a different signalling system (KVB?) which would require extra equipment on the locos?

 

[MarkyT]

Don't the international platforms use a different signalling system (KVB?) which would require extra equipment on the locos?

You could dual fit the international platforms with AWS/TPWS as well as KVB.

 

[Chris125]

A quick question here. If (and that's a big if!) one of the class 86's was called in to replace a class 92 would it be able to haul the long and I'm guessing heavy train over Shap?

Happy to be corrected but I don't think 86s have a high enough ETS rating to power a full sleeper rake.

Chris

 

[RichmondCommu]

Happy to be corrected but I don't think 86s have a high enough ETS rating to power a full sleeper rake.

Chris

Thanks for this, much appreciated. That makes the question of whether they would be powerful enough to haul a long a train of the new type of sleeper carriages over Shap irrelevant.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Yes, see your point, 86/1 has same power rating (5000hp.) as class 87/90 but ETS index is only 74, as opposed to 95 for 87/90.

 

[kermit]

Happy to be corrected but I don't think 86s have a high enough ETS rating to power a full sleeper rake.

Chris

Does the time of year make a difference there? Many a non-steam-heat fitted loco worked a summer excursion back in the day, and carriage heating must take a good chunk of the electrical load (though air con lights and auxiliary electrics would be something to chew on)

 

[alexl92]

Yes, see your point, 86/1 has same power rating (5000hp.) as class 87/90 but ETS index is only 74, as opposed to 95 for 87/90.

So, one 86 couldn't do it, but two of them or one 87 could? Seeing as there's 2 86s and an 87 being used...

 

[CosherB]

So, one 86 couldn't do it, but two of them or one 87 could? Seeing as there's 2 86s and an 87 being used...

Let's not get carried away with the idea of seeing class 86's or an 87 on the WCML with the sleeper ..... they'll be in ECS stock moves only around Euston and that's it. GBRf will be using class 92's exclusively once they're ready to operate between London and Scotland. End of.

 

[Townsend Hook]

Let's not get carried away with the idea of seeing class 86's or an 87 on the WCML with the sleeper ..... they'll be in ECS stock moves only around Euston and that's it. GBRf will be using class 92's exclusively once they're ready to operate between London and Scotland. End of.

Stranger things have happened..

 

[87015]

Let's not get carried away with the idea of seeing class 86's or an 87 on the WCML with the sleeper ..... they'll be in ECS stock moves only around Euston and that's it. GBRf will be using class 92's exclusively once they're ready to operate between London and Scotland. End of.

Willing to put money on that? I'd be putting myn on the 87 working occasionally, there are enough cranky staff there who would want to see it happen and it won't take much to be short of 92s - 4 92s the sleeper pool for (at least) 4 diagrams, where will the nearest backup 'multi-purpose' pool one be when a speedo fault or whatever occurs one evening - Dollands Moor?!

Latest murmurings are 2x90 still from April anyway as part of the deal for 67s as not expecting enough 92s to be ready, a great start!

 

[CosherB]

Willing to put money on that? I'd be putting myn on the 87 working occasionally, there are enough cranky staff there who would want to see it happen and it won't take much to be short of 92s - 4 92s the sleeper pool for (at least) 4 diagrams, where will the nearest backup 'multi-purpose' pool one be when a speedo fault or whatever occurs one evening - Dollands Moor?!

Latest murmurings are 2x90 still from April anyway as part of the deal for 67s as not expecting enough 92s to be ready, a great start!

It's a well known fact that there are seven Class 92's in the GBRf sleeper pools. Four will definately be painted into CS livery, the others are tbc.