? - Haulage and formation on certain routes

[The passenger]

Hello everybody!

First of all I do apologise, because accidentally I've posted this post twice. The first one is posted on subsequence/post "CrossCountry".

I'm new here and I hope, I've chosen the right forum for my first post. On April I'm planning a railtour through whole Britain. While planning my routes I found some interesting trains, which could be part of my route.

For an enthusiast, it's important, which train is hauled by which class and what formation does each train have.

Especially I'm interested in the Riviera Night Sleeper, CrossCountry service(s) from Penzance to Dundee and Virgin Pendolino southbound services from Glasgow to London Euston.

I think the Riviera Night Sleeper is locomotive hauled, but what class is working on it? What's the formation of this train and which coaches are located just behind the locomotive?

What I've found on the www the daily CrossCountry service from Penzance to Dundee is operated by a former Virgin (Super) Voyager. Am I right? What formation does this train have and which coach is located first (coach A oder coach F)? Does this train change direction on its journey?

In case of Virgin Pendolino services it's undoubtable what class I can expect (= class 390) , but what formation do this trains have? Is coach A oder coach K heading southbound?

To close my catalogue of questions - is it realistic to have just about 35 minutes to change the station in Glasgow (Queen Street to Central)? In my mind this could be too short, but NR journey planner offers me a route with a changing time of just 35 minutes. I tried to expand the changing time to get an earlier train, but this won't work on my desired route (Dundee -> London via Glasgow).

Now you may ask why he wants to know all this "rubbish"? All right. As being an enthusiast, it's quite good to know where my reserved seat is located, because I prefer seats with a view on the opposite track. This would be more interesting than always looking just on trees, bushes and housings along the route.

Thanks a lot in advance for your help and efforts.

Best regards from southern Germany, where we have weather like in Britian right now (windy and rainy)
The passenger

 

[clagmonster]

I think the Riviera Night Sleeper is locomotive hauled, but what class is working on it? What's the formation of this train and which coaches are located just behind the locomotive?

This service is hauled by a class 57/6 locomotive (but not 57601). The train is comprised of mark 3 sleepers and day coaches, although I am afraid I cannot give you the exact formation. Someone else may be able to help on this.

What I've found on the www the daily CrossCountry service from Penzance to Dundee is operated by a former Virgin (Super) Voyager. Am I right? What formation does this train have and which coach is located first (coach A oder coach F)? Does this train change direction on its journey?

According to www.thejunction.org.uk the 08:30 Penzance-Dundee service is scheduled to be operated by a 5 car class 221 unit (Super Voyager). These are formed (from www.therailwaycentre.com ) DMS-RMS-MS-MS-DMF, although this formation may be reversed. This train does not reverse during its journey.

In case of Virgin Pendolino services it's undoubtable what class I can expect (= class 390) , but what formation do this trains have? Is coach A oder coach K heading southbound?

Southbound, first class should be at the front, standard at the rear. In coach letter terms, coach K will be at the front, coach A at the rear.

To close my catalogue of questions - is it realistic to have just about 35 minutes to change the station in Glasgow (Queen Street to Central)? In my mind this could be too short, but NR journey planner offers me a route with a changing time of just 35 minutes. I tried to expand the changing time to get an earlier train, but this won't work on my desired route (Dundee -> London via Glasgow).

35 minutes is sufficient to get from Queen Street-Central, as long as your train arrives in Queen Street on time. I would say that about 15 minutes is the minimum required.

I hope this is of help to you. As for reserved seats, as long as the train isn't to bust, it shouldn't be a problem for you to sit in a different seat. Enjoy your trip.

 

[Nym]

the 57/6 always breaks down so an EWS 66 pulls it to whereever

 

[Techniquest]

It does?!

47s have been known to work the sleeper when 57/6 availability is dismal. Mind, so have EWS 66/0s, HST power cars...

Either way, enjoy your tour of the UK 'the passenger'. Particularly the Penzance to Dundee Voyager. Not many people would have the guts to even consider tackling the whole run (I know a couple of people on this forum and myself are planning to do it at some point). Bear in mind a 220 4-car Voyager can be used vice 221 5-car Super Voyager.

Have fun!

 

[devon_metro]

I couldn't think of a more boring or depressing thing to do personally

 

[Mintona]

An all nighter at Paignton probably would be worse...

 

[Techniquest]

All-nighter at Georgemas Junction would be worse...:razz:

 

[Nym]

All nighter at Nafferton is even worse, although Hutton Cranswick would be worse than that...

 

[me123]

All-nighter at Georgemas Junction would be worse...:razz:

What about an all nighter at Reddish South

35 minutes is sufficient to get from Queen Street-Central, as long as your train arrives in Queen Street on time. I would say that about 15 minutes is the minimum required.

I can walk it in 10 minutes. It's simple, easy and quick, especially QSt-Central (as you go down a hill). The otherway is a bit harder. Allow about 20 minutes for someone who doesn't know the area and, depending on the trains you plan to take, yoou may need a bit more (allow extra for a long-distance train than a frequent commuter service, for example).

As for reserved seats, as long as the train isn't to bust, it shouldn't be a problem for you to sit in a different seat. Enjoy your trip.

I've never been told off for sitting in the wrong seat in my life. That said, I usually only ever do that if the seat next to me is occupied and there are empty double/table seats elsewhere in the carriage. May as well use it all.

Do let us know what trains you're on nearer the time (such as the specific Pendolino service) and I'm sure someone will be able to advise you regarding the necessity to reserve a seat on said service. On many occasions, I find that hardly anyone reserves a seat and even fewer actually occupy their on the way.

I would also recommend travelling Dundee-Aberdeen. The views up there are SPECTACULAR over the North sea (even when it's foggy), although I'm not sure if you can easily fit this into your journey plan, as Aberdeen accommodation is expensive.

 

[yorkie]

For an enthusiast, it's important, which train is hauled by which class and what formation does each train have.

Indeed. Do you have any particular preferences? Perhaps the most popular type of engine still running in regular service, among many enthusiasts, is the Valenta (example1, example2 - subwoofer required!), have you heard of them?

Especially I'm interested in the Riviera Night Sleeper, CrossCountry service(s) from Penzance to Dundee and Virgin Pendolino southbound services from Glasgow to London Euston.

I think the Riviera Night Sleeper is locomotive hauled, but what class is working on it? What's the formation of this train and which coaches are located just behind the locomotive?

Should be a 57. To be just behind the loco heading WEST you need to be in a sleeper berth but I am not sure if it's first or standard or which coach exactly will be behind the loco. If going EAST, then you will need to be seated. I'm not sure if it's first or standard leading, but the upgrade for seated sleeper to first is very cheap (£10 IIRC). The door windows are openable so you can enjoy a bit of thrash.

What I've found on the www the daily CrossCountry service from Penzance to Dundee is operated by a former Virgin (Super) Voyager. Am I right? What formation does this train have and which coach is located first (coach A oder coach F)? Does this train change direction on its journey?

Sadly, yes, it is operated by Voyagers, although it may revert to HSTs in 2009 (depending on what XC decide to do with their HSTs). No way to know which formation the train will be in, and it could get extremely busy. The train won't tilt at all, and the coach will rattle and vibrate like a bus throughout the journey, you will also be the only one doing this complete journey and you'll find many people just being on the train for just a few stops. The seat next to you could be occupied by as many as 5 different people during the journey. These are not long distance trains by any sensible definition.

I would seriously re-consider going via London on a higher quality of train, the HST. If you are lucky you might get a Valenta (or two if you are really lucky) on the East Coast. Some of the best scenery is actually north of Dundee toward Aberdeen (example), and I would highly recommend going all the way to Aberdeen rather than finish at Dundee.

Also, consider the line to Inverness, there is a daily HST in each direction. The best part is between Kingussie and Pitlochry - stunning scenery, and going up Druimuachdar Summit (the highest point on the UK network) behind a Valenta is a great experience.

The West Highland line to Fort William and Mallaig is also spectacular, but for me it's never been the same since the Class 37s ended in 2006. Class 67s operate all sleepers north of Edinburgh now.

In case of Virgin Pendolino services it's undoubtable what class I can expect (= class 390) , but what formation do this trains have? Is coach A oder coach K heading southbound?

Coach A is at the 'country' end, K is at the London end.

To close my catalogue of questions - is it realistic to have just about 35 minutes to change the station in Glasgow (Queen Street to Central)? In my mind this could be too short, but NR journey planner offers me a route with a changing time of just 35 minutes. I tried to expand the changing time to get an earlier train, but this won't work on my desired route (Dundee -> London via Glasgow).

About 15 minutes is all it will take, give or take 5 minutes depending on which platform at Central!

Now you may ask why he wants to know all this "rubbish"? All right. As being an enthusiast, it's quite good to know where my reserved seat is located, because I prefer seats with a view on the opposite track. This would be more interesting than always looking just on trees, bushes and housings along the route.

Feel free to ask any more questions!

When is your trip?

 

[me123]

You could, based on Yorkie's advice, travel to Dundee by Voyager (as much as I like Voyagers, I would not recommend this either, but it would be a great journey nevertheless), catch the connection to Aberdeen, stay overnight, take a 158 to Inverness in the morning (Unfortunately, you'd miss the only HST south although this is unavoidable I'm afraid), travel to Glasgow by 170 Turbostar and take your Pendo to Euston. The 170 may not be rated as highly as the HST, but I still hearily recommend it. Very comfy.

 

[33056]

Hi The passenger,

One thing to bear in mind when sorting seats out is that we run on the left rather than the right over here (the opposite to Germany).

BTW, I'll do you a swap, you can have a ride on all the Pendolinos you want and I'll go over to Bavaria for the 218s In fact I have ridden behind a 218 more recently than I have been on a Pendy, and I see these every day (I HATE the things)

 

[The passenger]

Hello and good evening!

After reading all your replies I have to say THANK YOU VERY MUCH to all of you!

If my boss sings my vacations request , my trip will be on the middle of April (but not for 100% sure - could be May too). After all your advises I will consider to redirect my route, but the boundaries should be the same (London -> Cornwall -> Scotland -> London).

Now I can ask the NR journey planner for the best route incl. reasonable prices.

Once more thank you very much.

Best regards from Munich/Germany
The passenger

PS: @33056: It's nice to hear, that someone outside Germany likes our 218s. If you're interested in german Diesels, next time you are in Bavaria watch out for visually similar class 217. This little numbered class has for example other engines incl. special gear ratio, so they are operating only on freight services on the Munich to Mühldorf/Burghausen non-electrified route (e.g. table 940 of DB timetable). If you are a lucky guy, you'll see a survivor in old Deutsche Bundesbahn blue and cream-livery. Diagrams are sometimes and not reguarly published on the german railfans website www.drehscheibe-online.de. English speaking members are mostly available.
For every fan of the 218 it's strongly recommended to visit the german issue of wikipedia (search for "Baureihe 218"), where some related links to special dedicated websites are also available. Unfortunately they are mostly (all?) only in german language. More modern diesel locomotives (class 223 - similar to austrian class 2016 "Hercules") are also running in the Munich area and down to the Allgäu mountains. Just watch out for ALEX-trains from Munich to Oberstorf v.v. which are privately operated by Länderbahn. This company is hold partly by Arriva.
I hope there are some usable informations for your next visit here.

 

[33056]

Thanks for the info The passenger. I can remember the 217s when they were based at Regensburg and have even had a ride behind a few as they used to have a regular passenger turn from Nürnberg in the evening. As for the "Hercules", I had ride behind a new Arriva one last November, even before they took over the ALEX service ( see here )

Sorry for straying off topic but I hope you can get your leave and that you have a great trip over here.