Hastings and Eastbourne via HS1

[biggerisbetter]

Apologies if this has already been covered but (notwithstanding whether there would currently be demand) would it be feasible for an additional Southeastern service, say one per hour, to run to Hastings and Eastbourne via Marshlink, Ashford and HS1?

I would envisage being operated by an order of Hitachi bi-modes similar to the 810s (very similar length to 395s) and only stopping at principal stations - Stratford, Ebbsfleet, Ashford, Rye, Hastings, Bexhill and Eastbourne.

Benefits would include:

- Increased capacity between the south coast and London
- Quicker services between Eastbourne, Bexhill, Hastings, Rye and Ashford
- Increased frequencies and capacity on HS1 between London, Stratford, Ebbsfleet and Ashford
- Improved access from these areas to east and north London along with the connections offered by Kings Cross, St Pancras and Euston

Platforms would be too short for doubled-up units and may even need extension at Rye anyway so maybe not the best use of an HS1 path.

Thoughts welcome. Thanks in advance.

 

[JonathanH]

would it be feasible for an additional Southeastern service, say one per hour, to run to Hastings and Eastbourne via Marshlink, Ashford and HS1?

Unfortunately, while it is an aspiration of many people, it has been previously explained that the track layout at Ashford needs substantial remodelling to allow trains to run from HS1 through to the Hastings route, even if stock were available.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...er-marshlink-electrified.217681/#post-5147180

I would envisage being operated by an order of Hitachi bi-modes similar to the 810s (very similar length to 395s) and only stopping at principal stations - Stratford, Ebbsfleet, Ashford, Rye, Hastings, Bexhill and Eastbourne.

The line capacity between Appledore and Ore is quite heavily restricted by the single track and only passing loop at Rye. Essentially a stopper and a fast over the route would be difficult to path.

Benefits would include:

- Increased capacity between the south coast and London

Maybe, but is there actually a capacity issue on the Eastbourne and Hastings routes?

- Quicker services between Eastbourne, Bexhill, Hastings, Rye and Ashford

That doesn't necessarily need through services from HS1 to be achieved. The issue is whether a slower service can be maintained as well though or the current compromise should prevail.

- Increased frequencies and capacity on HS1 between London, Stratford, Ebbsfleet and Ashford

That depends on paths on HS1 and extra rolling stock but is an aspiration that could be achieved without through running to Hastings.

- Improved access from these areas to east and north London along with the connections offered by Kings Cross, St Pancras and Euston

Essentially we are just talking about the matter of not changing trains at Ashford. How many people travelling to Rye and Hastings to make the journey to London who want to use HS1 are put off by the change. How much more traffic would through running generate?

Emotionally, through running from St Pancras to Hastings and maybe Eastbourne looks great on a map and as a possible aspiration for stakeholders. It is very easy to understand why people like the idea and a real shame it wasn't taken into account in the process of rebuilding Ashford Station and building HS1.

 

[PTR 444]

Does the Marshlink Line need to have another service in addition to the existing Southern stopper?

If not, then it would just be a case of sourcing additional HS1 stock and sorting out Ashford so the existing service from Eastbourne can be extended to St Pancras (and presumably transferred to Southeastern as well).

 

[JonathanH]

The problem is very much

sorting out Ashford

as set out below

there are no existing connections from the HS1 lines to the Rye line at Ashford.

Nice to see the former Secretary of State proposing projects. To my certain knowledge this was looked at in 2015, if not earlier. Amber Rudd was very keen, and I need those days, very important. Political pressure has waned somewhat since the 2019 General Election...

It is very difficult. It needs the whole of Ashford west to be rebuilt, and potentially needs certain types of non standard switches and crossings that would make the track engineers sweat profusely, and bring in potential single point failures that could stop the whole job. As I mentioned in the other thread, it also means amending the signalling on HS1, albeit at the fringe, but still not an easy task due to the interfaces.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ent-from-modern-railways.211625/#post-4879634

 

[Dr Hoo]

Welcome to the Forums @biggerisbetter .

I think that the Class 810-esque trains might be quite interesting. They would presumably be overhead and third rail and diesel and high speed (>125mph/200km/h). A significant design challenge for what would be a fairly small micro-fleet.

 

[NSE]

Would it be quicker from Eastbourne to London than SN? Once it’s left Eastbourne, headed up to Hastings, then gone through the single section up to Rye and Ashford, would it be quicker? I mean I’m assuming you’d be talking about doubling the line and electrifying, I feel that would be the only way to do it. Hastings definitely has some merit.

 

[biggerisbetter]

Thanks for responses. Given the issues at Ashford it would seem too difficult and expensive for the benefits which whilst useful, are not substantial.

I agree it wouldn't have been as quick from Eastbourne to a London Terminus as the existing Eastbourne to Victoria service but would provide quicker journeys to parts of the city, canary wharf, Stratford, Kings Cross area (and connections north) and Ashford from Eastbourne. Whilst this wouldn't justify the service itself, it could justify its extension from Bexhill (which would I think see improved journey times to London) to Eastbourne.

I'd envisaged that the 810-esque trains would have been 140mph capable on electric with diesel between Ashford and Eastbourne. I understand the bi-mode 800s are capable of 140mph so shouldn't be insurmountable. Given the 395s are also from the same A-train family you would hope there would be some consistencies in terms of servicing, maintenance driving training etc. such that the micro fleet wouldn't be too problematic.

Above largely academic however given the issues at Ashford.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Marshlink only has capacity for 1tph passenger between Rye and Ore as the other path needs to be reserved for Test Trains and RHTT's which are the most important trains on the network.

 

[zwk500]

I'd envisaged that the 810-esque trains would have been 140mph capable on electric with diesel between Ashford and Eastbourne. I understand the bi-mode 800s are capable of 140mph so shouldn't be insurmountable. Given the 395s are also from the same A-train family you would hope there would be some consistencies in terms of servicing, maintenance driving training etc. such that the micro fleet wouldn't be too problematic.

Be aware that once on the third rail they'd be limited to 90 or 100mph even if you rebuilt the line to be capable of that speed. Also, the 395s lose a fair amount of power when on third rail compared to OLE, and Electrostars are known to out-accelerate them between Ashford and Dover.