Has the Virgin brand name become toxic?

[Bletchleyite]

That is true, although minimum FTTC speeds are not actually that much better than good ADSL2+ speeds.

They aren't, but a key advantage of FTTC is that it's symmetric or nearer to it - ADSL upload speeds are barely better than a 56K modem in some cases. (The A bit of ADSL being "Asymmetric").

 

[dgl]

They aren't, but a key advantage of FTTC is that it's symmetric or nearer to it - ADSL upload speeds are barely better than a 56K modem in some cases. (The A bit of ADSL being "Asymmetric").

Of course, completely forgot about that , naturally when ADSL first came out we didn't upload much as internet users, it was primarily emails that went the other was as it were, there was no YouTube videos or Facebook/Instagram photos to upload. Back in 2007 the college I went to only had a 4Mb (I think, could have even been megabit) internet connection. But this is all a bit OT!

 

[rebmcr]

I think other companies shout about fibre when it's fibre-to-the-cabinet, though?

This was before FTTC was even generally available.

 

[plugwash]

I think other companies shout about fibre when it's fibre-to-the-cabinet, though?

Sure, if your competitors are lying in their advertising and get away with it then you would be mad not to use the same lie.

Virgin started the fiasco.

There's certainly a need to differentiate it from traditional ADSL which is fibre-to-the-exchange. It is many orders of magnitude superior.

It depends a lot on where you live, comparing the best case for each service it's a little over 3 times better but if you are close to the cabinet and far from the exchange then the difference may be much larger.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sure, if your competitors are lying in their advertising and get away with it then you would be mad not to use the same lie.

Virgin started the fiasco.

There's a long tradition of lying about things when selling broadband. The use of the phrase "unlimited" for a product that is not simply limited by available bandwidth x time is a classic one which there is/was really no need for - if you're selling a connection with a 100GB/month transfer allowance, just say you're selling that!

We seem to have moved away from that towards throttling bandwidth instead, though, which is at least more honest.

 

[Joe Paxton]

...
It's a bit like the 3 Ss (no, not the morning ones) - does anyone here *not* know the number to text the BTP on? It's grossly annoying but incredibly effective.

Er, the number that came to my mind just is 85058 - but I see that's for Radio 5 Live! I couldn't remember the BTP number so had to look it up. To be fair they both follow the same pattern (85058 and 61016).

 

[Energy]

Going back to Virgin, one of its issues if that the Virgin brand is everywhere even if they aren't that similar businesses. This gives people a perception of something being bad if they have had a bad experience with Virgin, for example if your Virgin Train service gets delayed a lot you may have a negative view to Virgin Wines despite them being 2 different business with the only link being the Virgin brand. First group removed the 'First' from lots of their TOCs so if you had a negative experience with TPE you wouldn't think negatively on GWR despite having the same parent.

 

[D365]

1, Cable TV was in the UK long before Virgin decided they wanted in, all they did was buy a leading company.

Indeed; the only real changes they've made are bringing a unified brand to the NTL-Telewest conglomerate, and merge it into their Virgin Mobile operations.

 

[plugwash]

Going back to Virgin, one of its issues if that the Virgin brand is everywhere even if they aren't that similar businesses. This gives people a perception of something being bad if they have had a bad experience with Virgin, for example if your Virgin Train service gets delayed a lot you may have a negative view to Virgin Wines despite them being 2 different business with the only link being the Virgin brand.

This works both ways, if people have a good experience with one virgin company they are more likely to use other virgin companies.

The trick is trying to ensure that your brand only gets put on operations where the good outweighs the bad. I'm not sure that can be said of rail nowadays (though Virgin did have some of the best routes on the network).

 

[dorsetdesiro]

I have accounts with Yorkshire Bank and O2 which are both merging with Virgin, not sure how I feel about this. I'm hoping Virgin Media will become an enlarged O2 instead of Virgin Media swallowing O2.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have accounts with Yorkshire Bank and O2 which are both merging with Virgin, not sure how I feel about this. I'm hoping Virgin Media will become an enlarged O2 instead of Virgin Media swallowing O2.

Most likely O2 will end up operating under the Virgin Mobile brand. Virgin doesn't *do* stuff itself when it doesn't need to. It just licences the brand and sits back and waits for the lucre to come in. Virgin Rail Group was rather an exception, but if "VT" had won the WCML franchise that wasn't going to continue - what we'd have got would have been a Stagecoach operation with Virgin branding, like VTEC was.

I don't know about the Yorkshire Bank situation, but I suspect that will be similar.

 

[Bletchleyite]

On the subject of O2, does that mean we'll see Virgin Arenas, or does that mean that deal will end and another sponsor will take on that aspect of the brand?

 

[dorsetdesiro]

The Virgin brand does not excite or attract me, in fact it does the opposite. Those companies only licensing the brand, they may do better to distance from it than embrace as Virgin is getting a lot of bad reputation lately what with VTEC, Virgin Media's woeful service, The Australian govt shunning Virgin Australia, Virgin Atlantic now in trouble, Branson upsetting lots of people, Virgin Money customers having issues with their bank accounts...

As Liberty Global owns Virgin Media, only borrowing the brand from Branson, it would make more sense if the whole thing becomes O2 starting afresh.

 

[talltim]

The signs about not flushing "your ....hopes & dreams, goldfish... down the toilet" in the Mk4 & 390 carriages say a huge amount about what the Virgin brand is:- no substance, just a lot of silly PR gimmicks that baffle people into believing that it is a good firm and in the process making lots of money for Branson.

Except that seemed to be a Stagecoach thing as EMT did it too

 

[vlad]

I had a virtual meeting at work the other day that mostly consisted of one of my colleagues ranting that the Clydesdale Bank, who he's had an account with for years, is rebranding to something like Virgin Money. I don't think he's happy....

 

[plugwash]

Does this mean we will be seeing virgin banknotes?!

Reading the wikipedia article it looks like while they will be phasing out the clysdale bank brand for bank accounts they will be keeping it for banknotes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This strikes me as grossly stupid.

People from Scotland are fiercely proud of it and like buying Scottish stuff.

People from Yorkshire are fiercely proud of it and like buying Yorkshire stuff. Look at the success of Yorkshire Tea (not only because it's nice). I doubt there are many households in Yorkshire where it won't feature.

Why on earth would you kill those brands? I'm not a Virgin-hater but I think this is an incredibly stupid move.

O2, well, that will probably work, but that's a non-brand anyway.

 

[talltim]

It was effective enough that it spread to all the Stagecoach TOCs (which never did the Virgin glitz thing) and a few others too.

It's a bit like the 3 Ss (no, not the morning ones) - does anyone here *not* know the number to text the BTP on? It's grossly annoying but incredibly effective.

I’ve forgotten it. My first thought was moo baa double quack double quack (from kids tv show Hana’s Helpline)
Does it start with 6?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I’ve forgotten it. My first thought was moo baa double quack double quack (from kids tv show Hana’s Helpline)
Does it start with 6?

61016. Though I don't get why there's no standard Police thing of texting 101.

 

[Mwanesh]

I think the Virgin Mobile name will dissapear. Virgin piggy backs on the O2 network. Having used Virgin Atlantic on longhaul flights like Cape Town via Johannesburg i find them better in service.

 

[thenorthern]

I think the Virgin Brand has become a bit tarnished not just because of Virgin Trains but also things like the controversial Virgin Care, the FlyBe saga, the way how Virgin Megastores collapsed, the Virgin One tv channel and other things.

Back around 2002ish time Virgin was seen as quality and would only attach it's name to something good and Sir Richard Branson was very popular being seen as a man who could fix anything. However since then many failed business ventures and licensing the Virgin name to things that shouldn't really have had the Virgin name ruined the name.

Also I think Virgin Group's tax status of being registered in the British Virgin Islands where Sir Richard Branson currently lives affected their image as since the financial meltdown companies that avoid tax have become very unpopular.

I think the Virgin Mobile name will dissapear. Virgin piggy backs on the O2 network. Having used Virgin Atlantic on longhaul flights like Cape Town via Johannesburg i find them better in service.

Virgin uses EE but from next year it will use Vodafone.

 

[D365]

Virgin uses EE but from next year it will use Vodafone.

Are you sure? Virgin Mobile has traditionally used Orange/EE as their carrier, and shall likely continue until their merger with O2 (not Vodafone) is fulfilled.

 

[thenorthern]

Are you sure? Virgin Mobile has traditionally used Orange/EE as their carrier, and shall likely continue until their merger with O2 (not Vodafone) is fulfilled.

As far as I know the switchover to Vodafone for Virgin Mobile is still happening.

 

[Ladder23]

I’m the same... I actually really admired the whole virgin name but I am glad to see them gone now

 

[Bletchleyite]

I’m the same... I actually really admired the whole virgin name but I am glad to see them gone now

I don't know. If Avanti had been a LM-style operation, getting Best Impressions in to give it a friendly, bright house style and the likes, I wouldn't mind their passing. But I'd take Virgin Trains' bright, attractive branding and attention to detail any day over the lackadaisical rubbish Avanti have proven to be. Might as well just paint the effing things blue (the colour isn't far off) and put double arrows on.