Harwich - Liverpool 1924

[PREUNIS]

Hi,

I’m writing an essay on my gerat-uncle's emigration from Belgium to Canada in 1924, leaving from Liverpool. Likely he embarked on the daily boat connection between Antwerpen and Harwich; I read a bit confusing stories about the journey between Harwhich and Liverpool; some refer to a bit cumbersome travel over London, with some stopovers; I also found something over a more or less direct connection. Anyone who has good insights how a typical emigrant entering Harwich would travel to Liverpool?

Much appreciated

Peter

 

[Gloster]

The following is from the July 1922 timetable, but little is likely to have changed in a couple of years.

The ship departing from Antwerp Sud at 7.50 p.m. arrived Harwich (Parkeston Quay) at 6.30 a.m. There was a train leaving Harwich at 8.2 that had through carriages (i.e. just part of the train, not all of it) that arrived at Liverpool (Central) at 3.20 p.m. This would be the obvious way if he had had a bit of advice or had made thorough preparations.

If he was on a pre-arranged itinerary via London or just going by guesswork, the connecting train from the boat would arrive at London (Liverpool Street) at 8.00 a.m. Allowing a (generous) hour to get to London (Euston) he could catch the 10.20 that would get him to Liverpool (Lime St) at 2.20 p.m. It is then a short distance to the docks.

 

[PREUNIS]

Thank you so much for this info - really appreciated.

it looks like there was a specific railstation “Riverside” in front of the Princesgate, where the steamers left;any idea what train arrived there: from London ?

 

[Bevan Price]

Boat trains from London to Liverpool Riverside ran on an "as required" basis, and did not always appear in the public timetables. Not sure about 1924, but in later years they often swapped locomotives at Edge Hill. That probably added about 20-30 minutes to the typical journey time between London Euston and Liverpool Lime Street. Liverpool Riverside station was a short walk to the boat terminals.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you so much for this info - really appreciated.

it looks like there was a specific railstation “Riverside” in front of the Princesgate, where the steamers left;any idea what train arrived there: from London ?

You might find this excellent website of interest - Disused Stations

Disused Stations

This is the entry for Liverpool Riverside station - you will find a detailed description, including the train operations in connection with sailings, location maps and also pictures towards the bottom, and links to other pages of pictures of the station in different periods.

Disused Stations: Liverpool Riverside Station

disused-stations.org.uk

There is also an entry for Liverpool Central High Level here - and you will find one in the site's A-Z index for Liverpool Central Low Level

Disused Stations: Liverpool Central (High Level) Station

disused-stations.org.uk

I suspect the service @Gloster mentions from Harwich would arrive at Liverpool Central High Level, but I imagine Gloster can confirm if my suspicion is correct or not.

The old maps on those pages will allow you to see the location of the various main stations in Liverpool in relation to each other and the river (Lime Street, Exchange, Central, Riverside stations)

 

[Lloyds siding]

Canadian Pacific ships berthed either at Gladstone Dock or at the Princes Landing stage. The landing stage was at the Pier Head and Riverside station was adjacent. (In the early part of the 20th century it was the largest floating structure in the world.) Gladstone Dock is about 3 miles north, and in those days would probably be best accessed by the Liverpool Overhead Railway.

 

[Magdalia]

I’m writing an essay on my gerat-uncle's emigration from Belgium to Canada in 1924, leaving from Liverpool.

This is an interesting subject with lots of different aspects to consider.

Likely he embarked on the daily boat connection between Antwerpen and Harwich

Do you know this, or is it just an assumption? The main migrant route from Europe to Liverpool was via Hull, not Harwich. More than half of all migration between Europe and North America is estimated to have passed through Hull see here:

https://visithull.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/The-Great-Migration-j.pdf

There was a train leaving Harwich at 8.2 that had through carriages (i.e. just part of the train, not all of it) that arrived at Liverpool (Central) at 3.20 p.m.

The North Country Continental boat train from and to Harwich has a long history. It first had a through carriage to/from Liverpool around 1905. When the train resumed running after the World War, Liverpool Central became the main destination. The route was Ipswich-Ely-March-Lincoln Central-Sheffield Victoria and Manchester Central (where the train reversed). It would have had a restaurant car as far as Sheffield Victoria serving breakfast. The restaurant car served all passengers, not just First Class, which was fairly unusual in those days.

If he was on a pre-arranged itinerary via London or just going by guesswork, the connecting train from the boat would arrive at London (Liverpool Street) at 8.00 a.m.

I don't have a 1920s timetable but this would not have been possible. The main boat train to London was the Hook Continental, which historically departed Parkeston Quay at about 7.45am, allowing time for disembarkation from the overnight ferry arrivals (especially the railway ferry from Hook of Holland). Even in the late 1950s the Hook Continental was arriving at Liverpool Street at about 9.15am, in the 1920s I doubt it got to Liverpool Street before 9.30am. Parkeston Quay-Liverpool Street is 69 miles (111km) and with steam traction the boat trains took at least 90 minutes.

I suspect that a key factor in choice of route would have been the relative costs, and what the passenger(s) could afford.

 

[Gloster]

I was working on the basis that the OP had established that their relative had crossed from Antwerp to Harwich and primarily wanted to know how they got to Liverpool from Harwich. There appear to have also been twice weekly (Wednesdays and Saturdays) boats from Antwerp to Grimsby, whence it would not be too difficult to travel across to Liverpool; there were also boats from Rotterdam to Grimsby. There also appears to have been a twice weekly service between Zeebrugge and Hull.

Emigrants using the Hull-Liverpool corridor to get to the emigrant ships at Liverpool had been common in the latter part of the nineteenth century, but the changed political situation had made this less necessary. The problem had been that the various countries around the Baltic and Scandinavia wanted to keep their young men at home for use as cannon fodder and the young women to produce more cannon fodder. Those trying to use such emigrant ships as there were were often prevented from boarding them, so an alternative was to get out of your own country to one that didn’t care about you and then make your way to a country that wasn’t worried about emigration and use one of its ports, such as Liverpool. Because of the region they were coming from, Hull was the natural port of entry to England. By the 1920s these hindrances had fallen away.

It would have been Liverpool Central (High Level), usually just known as Liverpool Central. The Low Level was used only used by the Wirral Railway trains across to Birkenhead.

An individual traveller would be unlikely to use a train going to Riverside, but it is possible that they could have been booked a place on a train taking passengers to the liner they used. It is slightly more likely if they were part of an organised group.

 

[Merle Haggard]

I recalled that there was an accident report on railways Archive for a mishap involving an 'emigrant train'. I've found it, recorded on Railways Archive as 'Woodhouse' on 29/2/08.
Although in the wrong direction and involved Grimsby, it's tangentially interesting. The train was from Liverpool to Grimsby and formed of Great Central coaches.
It's interesting that there was emigration in that direction, presumably from North America to mainland Europe and also of note the involvement of the G.C., although the company was jointly involved with the Cheshire Lines. On the approach to Liverpool Central from the South East the Cheshire Lines had a connection to Herculaneum Dock which is a possible point of embarkation/disembarkation. Also suggests that Grimsby was a port for boats to mainland European destinations.

Just perhaps there were also G.C. emigrant trains in the opposite direction.

 

[Gloster]

I recalled that there was an accident report on railways Archive for a mishap involving an 'emigrant train'. I've found it, recorded on Railways Archive as 'Woodhouse' on 29/2/08.
Although in the wrong direction and involved Grimsby, it's tangentially interesting. The train was from Liverpool to Grimsby and formed of Great Central coaches.
It's interesting that there was emigration in that direction, presumably from North America to mainland Europe and also of note the involvement of the G.C., although the company was jointly involved with the Cheshire Lines. On the approach to Liverpool Central from the South East the Cheshire Lines had a connection to Herculaneum Dock which is a possible point of embarkation/disembarkation. Also suggests that Grimsby was a port for boats to mainland European destinations.

Just perhaps there were also G.C. emigrant trains in the opposite direction.

I suspect that this was called an emigrant train for convenience as it was run under the same conditions as a train in the opposite direction intended for those who actually were emigrating. However, the passengers were probably mostly people who had previously emigrated to the States, made their fortunes and were either returning to live on their money in the land of their birth or just returning for a visit (who doesn’t want to swank around town amongst the bumpkins who didn’t have the initiative to emigrate). Other reasons for returning were to see that their elderly parents were comfortably accommodated or to get themselves a wife.

Once people had either passed conscription age or conscription rules had been eased, there was less problem with returning home. Emigration eastwards to northern Europe was not particularly great in the late nineteenth and twentieth century.