Harringay Up Fast and Down Fast

[XCTurbostar]

Hi all,

The Sectional Appendix (LN101 Seq.004) shows that the Up Fast through Harringay is 60/70/HST90 and the Down Fast is 90 unless its a Class 0, Short Formed LHS or Mk1/2s.

I understand the limitations on the Down Fast but I am less so about the Up Fast, does anyone know which formations are permitted for the 60 and 70?

On a seperate note, I assume the 700s, 387s and 379s are not permitted to HST limits?

Thanks,

EDIT: added the SA for clarity.

 

[WeGoAgain]

700s, 387s and 379s are indeed permitted to the HST limits in that section.

 

[choochoochoo]

700s, 387s and 379s are indeed permitted to the HST limits in that section.

I believe 717s can do their max speed over that section too

 

[JN114]

60/70/HST90

60mph freight
70mph passenger except
90mph passenger that qualifies for HST differential

 

[XCTurbostar]

Thanks all!

 

[Efini92]

Here’s the page from the sectional appendix which shows which traction can use differential speeds.

 

[saismee]

Here’s the page from the sectional appendix which shows which traction can use differential speeds.

Although keep in mind that this is not up-to-date, as 755s are permitted to use SP differentials.

 

[JN114]

Although keep in mind that this is not up-to-date, as 755s are permitted to use SP differentials.

Most Sectional Appendices have this instruction within; the list tends to reflect the region it is taken from.

 

[RichardAsh1981]

Interesting that so many things now class as HST. I was also surprised to see "original" HST (Intercity 125) referred to as classes 253 and 254 still - numbering they have not carried for a long time, well before many of the other classes existed!

 

[Crithylum]

Interesting that so many things now class as HST. I was also surprised to see "original" HST (Intercity 125) referred to as classes 253 and 254 still - numbering they have not carried for a long time, well before many of the other classes existed!

I believe HST is related to the braking performance of the train. This was so they could increase line speeds without having to completely redo all of the signalling.

 

[greatkingrat]

Is there any reasonably modern unit that can't brake as well as a HST?

 

[Bald Rick]

I believe HST is related to the braking performance of the train. This was so they could increase line speeds without having to completely redo all of the signalling.

Braking performance and Route Availability.

 

[RichardAsh1981]

Braking performance and Route Availability.

And on the basis of the original image, the answer is a class 185, which is not allowed MU, DMU or HST speeds. I suspect weight (and therefore route availability) counts against them.

 

[zwk500]

Most Sectional Appendices have this instruction within; the list tends to reflect the region it is taken from.

The pages of the Sectional Appendices that quote the rulebook are out of date in numerous places. Here's the relevant profile list from the LNE sectional appendix (pdf version off NR website), this does appear to have been updated recently:

On a minor point, the 'class 80X' is annoying for two reasons, 'classes' is already present at the beginning of the list and 80X is not a single class, but a group of them. Also the decision not to put the additional classes in numerical order is frustrating from a neatness point of view.

 

[Zomboid]

I was expecting to see 196s as "HST", since they'll be operating the EWR services, and that route is 75/100HST.
When the first train went that way they made a thing of how it hit 100, but that was a 168.

 

[saismee]

On a minor point, the 'class 80X' is annoying for two reasons, 'classes' is already present at the beginning of the list and 80X is not a single class, but a group of them. Also the decision not to put the additional classes in numerical order is frustrating from a neatness point of view.

Don't know what a "class 80X" is... the sectional appendix has a "254 and 373 class 80X" though!

 

[zwk500]

I was expecting to see 196s as "HST", since they'll be operating the EWR services, and that route is 75/100HST.
When the first train went that way they made a thing of how it hit 100, but that was a 168.

The 196s may have other authority to travel under HST speeds as the LNW Sectional Appendix has them in table D. I was certainly under the impression that it was a requirement for the passenger service to be able to hit 100mph so it'll be interesting to see if it's just an oversight on the Sectional Appendix instruction or if they really aren't allowed to HST speeds.

The LNW(S) Sectional appendix PDF is quite messy:

Don't know what a "class 80X" is... the sectional appendix has a "254 and 373 class 80X" though!

I can forgive them not using an Oxford Comma, and for missing the comma after 373.

 

[saismee]

I can forgive them not using an Oxford Comma, and for missing the comma after 373

Much worse than duplicating the word class in my opinion!

 

[Zomboid]

The 196s may have other authority to travel under HST speeds as the LNW Sectional Appendix has them in table D

Though table D doesn't seem to have EWR included. The diagrams are there, but there's talk of the gates at Calvert and buffer stops.

 

[zwk500]

Though table D doesn't seem to have EWR included. The diagrams are there, but there's talk of the gates at Calvert and buffer stops.

No, but if 196s can take HST speed I'd have expected it to be noted regardless of EWR as there's other HST speeds on LNW(S). Most likely is just that the Speed profile instruction hasn't been updated yet, and that it's on somebody's list of things to do. There are other authorisations available for 196s to travel at HST speeds even if not cleared in the Sectional Appendix.

 

[D365]

Is there any reasonably modern unit that can't brake as well as a HST?

Class 185? Or am I getting mixed up with ”Sprinter differentials”?