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Happy Beeching Anniversary

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Gareth Marston

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My family have just directed my attention to a Daily Mail article called "Dr Beeching Saved Our Railway".I await articles on how Sir Peter Parker and Sir Robert Reid saved the railway as they would seem to be a lot more deserving. I guess that wouldn't make as good copy though :|

I read a discarded Mail on train today - it was pure waffle from a right winger from the time basically a rant about Unions. Traveling cleaner at Ludlow put it out its misery.

As to report we've heard about Thetford- Swaffham but the report listed another 10 lines as examples as well it clear 3 or 4 of the lines contributed so much contributory revenue that disappeared when they were closed that closing them lost BR money not saved it as I've said before the reports assumption was that £40 million would be saved but only £7 million materialized. A committee was apparently formed to identify savings from closing the Somerset and Dorset and couldn't find any.
 
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yorksrob

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I read a discarded Mail on train today - it was pure waffle from a right winger from the time basically a rant about Unions. Traveling cleaner at Ludlow put it out its misery.

Ah cheers, I'll know not to bother reading it :lol:
 

cambsy

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What shape would our railways be in if Beeching had not come along? would the branches have been closed by BR later or the franchises we have now or could they have been run to a profit and been successful?
 

Bald Rick

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What shape would our railways be in if Beeching had not come along? would the branches have been closed by BR later or the franchises we have now or could they have been run to a profit and been successful?

Given that there is very little of our railway that runs at true profit today - with usage at it's highest for 70+ years, I doubt very much that any of the lines closed since 1950 would turn a profit. Although there is no doubt that a small proportion of them would have a case on a socio-economic basis.
 

Mikey C

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If the post Beeching railway still made a loss, the big question is how much bigger the loss would have been if Beeching hadn't happened. Bearing in mind how economically grim the 70s and 80s were, what would had happened when the country went broke? Would the genuine improvement during that time (electrification, Sprinters, IC125) have happened?
 

Manchester77

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If the post Beeching railway still made a loss, the big question is how much bigger the loss would have been if Beeching hadn't happened. Bearing in mind how economically grim the 70s and 80s were, what would had happened when the country went broke? Would the genuine improvement during that time (electrification, Sprinters, IC125) have happened?

The post beeching railway did still make a loss if I'm not mistaken...

I've watched countless thing culminating in 'well beeching failed as BR still want profitable'
 

Darren R

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But it was Miss Castle who introduced the legislation allowing the Government to support socially necessary railways (as well as the setting up of the PTE's). That is easily worth the naming of a 158 in my book.

I can't deny the importance of the introduction of PTEs to the railways or the notion of socially necessary services. I'll go half way and agree she deserves the naming of a Pacer in her honour!;)

As regards the Modernisation and Traction Plans, that's a whole different can of worms. The problem with the railways for the first quarter century or so of their nationalised existence, was that they were totally impossible to run at a national strategic level. The BTC was far too large and the railways themselves were still being run along near-tribal lines by ex-Big Four men. Despite various attempts by various people to change this, nothing much happened. Too many decisions were delegated to too many committees at too many regional and area levels for any strategic planning to have any effect. This was the downfall of the Modernisation and Traction Plans - too much leeway was given to the Western Region to build non-standard hydraulics (to name but one example - and there are many.)
 

LE Greys

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Ah cheers, I'll know not to bother reading it :lol:

If you have access to a copy of last month's Railway Magazine, they ran a '50 Years Since Beeching' article that makes much better reading. From their BR special a few years ago there was also 'Dr Beeching, Axeman or Surgeon?'. Both of which were reasonably well-balanced and covered the issues much .better,
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/BTC_Mod001.pdf

Is that the full modernisation plan or is there a more detailed and longer version?

Thank you for that. So far, I've only skimmed through it, but it looks like the typical big, impressive idea that people were going for at the time. Unless there is a bigger version, I agree that it is light on detail, but that also sounds typical of the era.
 

Manchester77

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Thank you for that. So far, I've only skimmed through it, but it looks like the typical big, impressive idea that people were going for at the time. Unless there is a bigger version, I agree that it is light on detail, but that also sounds typical of the era.

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/browse.php

It's on this website. It's got everything dozens of BR, grouping, pe grouping and post privatisation documents on it.

I suppose eos but when you have a 100+ document by network rail about a derailment of a tram (causing no injuries etc), 36 pages on full network modernisation does seem short!!
 

yorksrob

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I can't deny the importance of the introduction of PTEs to the railways or the notion of socially necessary services. I'll go half way and agree she deserves the naming of a Pacer in her honour!;)

As regards the Modernisation and Traction Plans, that's a whole different can of worms. The problem with the railways for the first quarter century or so of their nationalised existence, was that they were totally impossible to run at a national strategic level. The BTC was far too large and the railways themselves were still being run along near-tribal lines by ex-Big Four men. Despite various attempts by various people to change this, nothing much happened. Too many decisions were delegated to too many committees at too many regional and area levels for any strategic planning to have any effect. This was the downfall of the Modernisation and Traction Plans - too much leeway was given to the Western Region to build non-standard hydraulics (to name but one example - and there are many.)

Make it a 143 or a 144 and we've got ourselves a compromise ;)

Actually I agree with a lot of what you say above. It seems apparent to me that the real turn around came with the change to business sectors. However, given the shortcomings of regional organisation, I can't help but notice that these were greatly exacerbated by the various route transfers which continued in the Beeching era (although this would have fitted with the IMO flawed drive to eliminate secondary routes).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
If you have access to a copy of last month's Railway Magazine, they ran a '50 Years Since Beeching' article that makes much better reading. From their BR special a few years ago there was also 'Dr Beeching, Axeman or Surgeon?'. Both of which were reasonably well-balanced and covered the issues much .better,

Many thanks. I shall try and search that one out.
 

Gareth Marston

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http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/BTC_Mod001.pdf

Is that the full modernisation plan or is there a more detailed and longer version?

There's a tendency to over focus on individual aspects of the modernisation plan i.e Western Region Diesel hydraulics and introspectively get a bit trainspotter nerdy BUT we have to remember the broad brush strategy behind the plan was signed off by the Conservative Govt in 1955 and given a funding commitment to follow it through until 1975 . It was Govt that wanted a common carrier status railway to continue hence pick up goods trains with Diesels on them and modern marshaling yards accounted for 50% of the plans costs. The Big 4 had decided this sort of system would never be profitable anymore back in the 30's and ran a square deal campaign to be shot of being forced to carry increasingly unprofitable loads to no avail.

We can go on about restrictive working practices , Victorian mindset, overmanning, regional rivalries etc to the cows come home but the bottom line was that Govt forced the railways to be unprofitable by continuing to insist on common carrier status. The finances of the railway had been histrionically set up to act as a unpaid tool of Govt Macro Economic policy since Victorian days - to carry goods and people at fixed rates set by Govt but without any Govt money to help if the rates/volume of traffic couldn't turn a profit. The really profitable stuff i.e coal effectively cross subsidized the rest of the system to varying degrees. UK coal production peaked just before WW1 when the railways were "profitable" by the early 60's only roughly two thirds of the tonnage from 1913 was produced and hence the railways ability to cross subsidize a declining common carrier network was gone.
The railways in the early 1960's was a product of Government decisions dating back a century including their shabby treatment in two world wars. They were never truly commercial as they were governed by Govt constraints.
 

MacRae13

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"In real terms the cost to the taxpayer in 1961 was £1.6billion but today the privatised railways are subsidised to the tune of £3.5billion."

Is that reasonably accurate and telling the full story? Without wanting to get bogged down in detail, is it a generally correct notion that todays railway costs the taxpayer twice as much as that of the 1950's and 60's?
 

jon0844

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The article also seemed to put all the blame on the Tories, as well as being written as if everyone knew at the time that rail travel would be in huge demand again in the future - at a time when everyone would have been wanting to get a car to enjoy complete freedom.

I can see why both Government AND the people would believe roads were the future, as even now there are plenty of people who would prefer to drive - and it's partly heavy congestion and running/fuel costs that is going to encourage them to consider rail.
 

yorksrob

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The article also seemed to put all the blame on the Tories, as well as being written as if everyone knew at the time that rail travel would be in huge demand again in the future - at a time when everyone would have been wanting to get a car to enjoy complete freedom.

I can see why both Government AND the people would believe roads were the future, as even now there are plenty of people who would prefer to drive - and it's partly heavy congestion and running/fuel costs that is going to encourage them to consider rail.

They should have liéstened to Sir John Betjamin. He managed to forsee it all.
 

Mikey C

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The post beeching railway did still make a loss if I'm not mistaken...

I've watched countless thing culminating in 'well beeching failed as BR still want profitable'

What I meant was that as the post Beeching railway was still loss making, would the railway have made even bigger losses without the cuts, and in that in such a scenario would a politician have made even bigger cuts subsequently in the 70s and 80s, when things were truly grim economically.

The last few years have shown a large growth in passenger numbers, but this growth isn't even across the board. If many of the quiet branches had been kept open, it's possible that they would still be quiet branches. Watching the Ian Hislop programme again last night, if the railway had stayed open, how many people would now take the train to Wadebridge/Padstow these days, rather than driving or taking organised coach tours?
 

tbtc

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What I meant was that as the post Beeching railway was still loss making, would the railway have made even bigger losses without the cuts, and in that in such a scenario would a politician have made even bigger cuts subsequently in the 70s and 80s, when things were truly grim economically

I think you may be right - can you imagine the cuts under Thatcher if there had been no Beeching? Or keeping every branch line open during the three day week etc?

The last few years have shown a large growth in passenger numbers, but this growth isn't even across the board. If many of the quiet branches had been kept open, it's possible that they would still be quiet branches. Watching the Ian Hislop programme again last night, if the railway had stayed open, how many people would now take the train to Wadebridge/Padstow these days, rather than driving or taking organised coach tours?

Another interesting point - growth has certainly happened but it has been far from "uniform" - many quiet branch lines are still quiet (especially outside "tourist season").
 

Gwenllian2001

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Before examining the ‘Beeching Report’ we really need to take a look at what the railways were like in the early Sixties. Branch line closures, to passengers, had been implemented throughout the Fifties and most of those were justifiable having outlived their purpose. Passenger services, on many lines, were often an adjunct to their primary purpose, which was to transport minerals, and when the minerals ran out, or became too expensive to win, the railway became redundant. Quite a few of those lines would not have been built, had there been a National Strategic Plan, but were the result of free enterprise and many never turned in even a modest profit. They were often built to ‘stick two fingers up’ at a rival company or in the vain hope that they might bring prosperity.

So, by the Sixties, we were left with a core of railways which, for the most part, were useful. What we did not have was a proper plan for developing what was left. When the ‘Beeching Report’ was published it was entitled ‘The Reshaping of British Railways’. Now, didn’t that sound promising? It was, of course, anything but reshaping. My idea of ‘reshaping’ would have been to sit down and look carefully at the services on offer. Many services had not altered in many decades. They stuck rigidly, year in year out, to the traffic patterns that pertained prior to WW1, when there was no need to accelerate or alter the frequency of services because, at that time, it was either the train or nothing. Why did so many branch line trains terminate at a Junction station instead of running through to the nearest important place? This often involved passengers in a lot time wasted by hanging around for connections.

At the time of, and prior to, the Report, I was heavily involved in the Cardiff Valleys Division. We were perfectly aware of the demographic changes as the rundown of traditional heavy industry meant that people would increasingly have to travel to work. A start had been made, in 1953, with the introduction of the interval services between Barry and the Rhondda and Merthyr Valleys. It was an immediate success and, for several years after, Booking Clerks sent in a weekly revenue return to evaluate the advantages of the interval service.* The idea was that the principle would be extended to the Rhymney Valley. Nothing came of it because Paddington was responsible for timetabling and it was ‘really nothing to do with us’.

The Aberdare line runs through a much more heavily populated valley than the Merthyr line but why was it singled out for closure in the Report? It’s downfall was that it didn’t run through to Cardiff but simply shuttled between Abercynon and Aberdare involving a change of train, both ways, with a ten to twelve minute wait for the connection. It should have been a through service to Barry providing extra capacity on the busy Pontypridd – Cardiff – Barry corridor. The Senghenydd Branch was another which shuttled between Senghenydd and Caerphilly. Why didn’t those trains run through to Cardiff and Penarth? The heavily used services between Cardiff and Caerphilly would have benefited from the extra services. The Rhondda Fach Branch was another shuttle between Porth and Maerdy involving a change of train to reach Pontypridd and Cardiff. It had a weaker case because some of the stations were awkwardly placed, a legacy of its mineral origins, but it should have been given a chance.

There were other places that looked ripe for development, for example, Tredegar - Blackwood – Cardiff, the infrastructure was in place but the line continued to be operated in a pattern that was long outmoded. As it turned out everything that went through to Cardiff was saved; anything that didn’t was doomed.

This might seem to be a little parochial but I can only speak for my own patch. I’m sure that there were many similar situations all over the country and a proper evaluation of train services might have resulted in a much different result than the infamous ‘Report’. The re-openings, in south Wales, have shown beyond doubt that a service tailored to the needs of the community will succeed. The prospect of electric trains to Ebbw Vale; Aberdare; Maesteg and the Vale of Glamorgan? Who would have believed that in the Sixties? Well, some of us did and we have been proved right.

As I have written before; Beeching’s brief was to make the railways profitable. He didn’t succeed and the losses continued to climb. Neither did he succeed in halting the growth of freight on the roads. The whole exercise was a failure.

* I later found out from a colleague that no one ever looked at those revenue returns.
 

cjmillsnun

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Dr Beeching was given a remit by then Transport Sec Earnest Marples (who owned a road haulage firm). We are lucky that Dr B made a case for stopping short of the the level of cuts that the remit suggested, the remit included for shutting the ECML north of Newcastle!
In some respects he did save the railways.

One correction. Marples owned a construction firm that was involved in the construction of the M1
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
They would be quite sensible to do so. I suspect the operating costs of the new stadium will be beyond the pockets of a relatively small club like WH, particularly with some bleeding of fans as a direct result of the move. I think it is quite likely that there will be a romantic "Back to Boleyn" movement, rather like the "Return to the Valley" seen in Charlton.

I suspect the fanbase of WH will increase as many people in that area will choose to go to WH with its spanking new stadium rather than Leyton Orient at Brisbane Road, just round the corner.
 

Gareth Marston

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The article also seemed to put all the blame on the Tories, as well as being written as if everyone knew at the time that rail travel would be in huge demand again in the future - at a time when everyone would have been wanting to get a car to enjoy complete freedom.

I can see why both Government AND the people would believe roads were the future, as even now there are plenty of people who would prefer to drive - and it's partly heavy congestion and running/fuel costs that is going to encourage them to consider rail.

There were already voices from across the pond warning that the dream of the open road with mass car ownership was a myth especially in urban areas as congestion grew. It was already evident in some UK cities, the warning signs were there but people didn't want to listen to something they did not want to hear.
 

yorksrob

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What I meant was that as the post Beeching railway was still loss making, would the railway have made even bigger losses without the cuts, and in that in such a scenario would a politician have made even bigger cuts subsequently in the 70s and 80s, when things were truly grim economically.

The last few years have shown a large growth in passenger numbers, but this growth isn't even across the board. If many of the quiet branches had been kept open, it's possible that they would still be quiet branches. Watching the Ian Hislop programme again last night, if the railway had stayed open, how many people would now take the train to Wadebridge/Padstow these days, rather than driving or taking organised coach tours?

Padstow is an interesting example. They were probably right to close the direct route via Launceston, however, if they'd retained a link to the mainline at Bodmin Road, it would undoubtedly be as busy as the other branches in Cornwall today.
 

6Gman

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There were already voices from across the pond warning that the dream of the open road with mass car ownership was a myth especially in urban areas as congestion grew. It was already evident in some UK cities, the warning signs were there but people didn't want to listen to something they did not want to hear.

People have been complaining about road congestion making travel difficult since the 1930s (at least!). Hasn't stopped car ownership increasing ... and increasing ...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
re: - Great Central.

People have suggested that a retained GC would now be an important freight route. But for what traffic?

Glancing through my Freightmaster the only traffic that seems to be suitable:

INTERMODAL
Leeds/ Wakefield - Southampton

METALS
Some Yorkshire - South Wales stuff BUT would need to be threaded through the Severn Tunnel

PETROCHEMICALS
Humberside - Bristol/ S Wales [but see above]
Humberside - Theale/ Colnbrook

CONSTRUCTION
Hope - Theale (and maybe Westbury)

It's not a lot is it?
 

Mvann

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People have been complaining about road congestion making travel difficult since the 1930s (at least!). Hasn't stopped car ownership increasing ... and increasing ...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
re: - Great Central.

People have suggested that a retained GC would now be an important freight route. But for what traffic?

Glancing through my Freightmaster the only traffic that seems to be suitable:

INTERMODAL
Leeds/ Wakefield - Southampton

METALS
Some Yorkshire - South Wales stuff BUT would need to be threaded through the Severn Tunnel

PETROCHEMICALS
Humberside - Bristol/ S Wales [but see above]
Humberside - Theale/ Colnbrook

CONSTRUCTION
Hope - Theale (and maybe Westbury)

It's not a lot is it?
I think that most references to freight on the GC referes to freight from the channel tunnel.
 

corfield

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Yet all the failings to make the most of the resources and provide the best service Gareth Marston describes happened under a nationalised and supposedly "pure public service" organisation, not tainted by commercial profit motives.

Regardless of whether the railways and freight loadings did or didn't turn a corner post Beeching (and note his plan wasn't completed, either the cuts or the investment), the retention of the network as was into the 70s with rampant inflation, huge industrial unrest, energy shortages, IMF bailouts and the political switch to the right, well, I can't see any scope for a brighter future. At least in the historical context, the rubbish was cut out and the reaction to the rest happened at a time when when it could be accommodated to some extent.

Plus, the investment of the 70s (APT, HST) and into the 80s (Sprinters) was predicated on having baselined the railways to some degree into something that at least didn't lose too much, and that which remained, did have some kind of a future.

Beeching or no Beeching, Marples or no Marples, the only difference would be the date and the spelling of the author of the report for much the same result.

Although if later, the report might be a tad longer and a bit more descriptive, as the fashion seems to have become since. (I've written longer reports on the design of a single component of an aircraft, let alone something equivalent to the entire aiarcraft user and production industry !).
 

Gwenllian2001

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Yet all the failings to make the most of the resources and provide the best service Gareth Marston describes happened under a nationalised and supposedly "pure public service" organisation, not tainted by commercial profit motives.

Regardless of whether the railways and freight loadings did or didn't turn a corner post Beeching (and note his plan wasn't completed, either the cuts or the investment), the retention of the network as was into the 70s with rampant inflation, huge industrial unrest, energy shortages, IMF bailouts and the political switch to the right, well, I can't see any scope for a brighter future. At least in the historical context, the rubbish was cut out and the reaction to the rest happened at a time when when it could be accommodated to some extent.

Plus, the investment of the 70s (APT, HST) and into the 80s (Sprinters) was predicated on having baselined the railways to some degree into something that at least didn't lose too much, and that which remained, did have some kind of a future.

Beeching or no Beeching, Marples or no Marples, the only difference would be the date and the spelling of the author of the report for much the same result.

Although if later, the report might be a tad longer and a bit more descriptive, as the fashion seems to have become since. (I've written longer reports on the design of a single component of an aircraft, let alone something equivalent to the entire aiarcraft user and production industry !).

The problem was that the railways were not run as a 'pure public service organisation' and political interference was rife, from whoever happened to be in government. Road building, on the other hand, was regarded as investment and the cash kept flowing. If you believe that Marples was acting without self interest, you must be very naive.

A few of the cuts didn't take place but other lines, not mentioned in the report, such as Swanage, were axed.

It is notable that many more lines were re-opened under BR than since 'privatisation'. The Ebbw Vale and Vale of Glamorgan lines would have been up and running much earlier but for the upheaval following 'privatisation'. It is also worth noting that the renaissance of the Valley Lines came about through the efforts of enthusiastic BR Management and Staff following Sectorisation.

It is also worth remembering that HST was designed and built in house, without the aid of overseas companies. There is no doubt, in mind, that sectorisation should have arrived earlier and, by the end of its existence, BR was the most cost effective railway in Europe, although you would never get that impression from the Press. I remember a Daily Express columnist advising a passenger who complained, about fare dodgers burying their heads in a newspaper at the approach of the conductor, to do the same. The implication was that we were already paying enough to keep the railways going under BR. I wonder what, if anything, she has to say about the cost of today's railway to the taxpayer.

The 'Beeching Years' left a legacy of bitterness with staff and public alike but the Tory controlled press supported the government to the hilt. They were, of course, just as quick to criticise Wilson's government for carrying on with the closures.

We do not know what might have happened if someone other than Marples had been Minister of Transport. There would have been changes and some closures would have been inevitable but a proper assessment of the railway was needed not a blunt instrument that took no account of geography or local needs. A seemingly small closure could have a severe knock on affect. Take, for example, Caernarfon - Afon Wen. With that link severed, a reasonable journey from Merseyside or Manchester to the Lleyn Peninsular and the Cambrian Coast became a totally unacceptable marathon that no one in their right mind would undertake by choice.
 
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