Hammersmith and City Line

[CP165]

This is just a thought that's been playing on my mind for a while, but, to avoid confusion for passengers and complications for London Underground, why don't they get rid of the Hammersmith and City Line by merging it into existing lines? Paddington-Hammersmith is now covered the Circle Line, and the Metropolitan Line could be extended to Aldgate East/Barking to cover that part of the line.

I know that this will create initial problems like rolling stock allocation and service frequencys, but once these have been sorted (if they can), do you think it's a good idea?

Thanks in advance

 

[MCR247]

But if the lower part of the circle does not have the capacity then you can't do it can you?

 

[SS4]

Has S Stock roll out finished on the met? As I understand it the A stock can only go to Aldgate.

I really don't understand what exactly is confusing though? If you want to reduce passenger confusion then get rid of the circle line - I believe it has only two chords to itself and no stations

 

[MCR247]

Either way, the S8 will still be too long for the rest of the H&C line

 

[anthony263]

Has S Stock roll out finished on the met? As I understand it the A stock can only go to Aldgate.

I really don't understand what exactly is confusing though? If you want to reduce passenger confusion then get rid of the circle line - I believe it has only two chords to itself and no stations

S stock are working some services to Aldgate now and an s stock train has been to Hammersmith.

 

[Mojo]

Surely if anything is confusing (which the Hammersmith & City is not) it would be having two branches of the Met.

The Hammersmith and City and Circle lines are in many senses operationally considered the same (eg. one management structure for both) so I cannot see the advantage in getting rid of it.

 

[EM2]

The H&C *was* part of the Met until 1988.

 

[150001]

The A stock has been to Upmister though for brake testing, last year, 2010. Although, there are gauge testings that would be needed and as they are being withdrawn, there isn't any point really.

 

[CP165]

Ah ok I didn't know that the Circle and Hammersmith & City were under the same management. I thought that it could be a bit confusing for people not familiar with the tube, especially foreigners, seeing as there are three tube lines running on the same stretch of track. But that's just my opinion.

 

[MCR247]

You've never been to New York then! That is confusing! You get on an E train at WTC that is a local in New York and an Express in Queens etc

 

[Yew]

I got confused by that, had only used deep level lines and a little circle before that :/

 

[317 forever]

The 'Hammersmith & City Line' is a mouthful compared to other Underground lines. They may as well have named it the Hammersmith line. Or, had they been futuristic enough, they could have called it the Westfield line!

 

[trentside]

The 'Hammersmith & City Line' is a mouthful compared to other Underground lines. They may as well have named it the Hammersmith line. Or, had they been futuristic enough, they could have called it the Westfield line!

Or, if we want to think like the Bakerloo - the Barkham line?

 

[es373]

A stock is currently going to Upminster for exterior washing so I believe.

Also A stock is the largest (in width) train on the UK railways. It has a far bigger loading gauge than any current stock.

Useless info for ya!

 

[SS4]

The 'Hammersmith & City Line' is a mouthful compared to other Underground lines. They may as well have named it the Hammersmith line. Or, had they been futuristic enough, they could have called it the Westfield line!

Better than it's more accurate "Closed at Weekends" name

 

[jon0844]

I wouldn't rename it the Hammersmith line. Now that Circle line trains also go there, it would make more sense to call it by the name of the bit where only the H&C goes - like the Barking line.

 

[CP165]

You've never been to New York then! That is confusing! You get on an E train at WTC that is a local in New York and an Express in Queens etc

No I've never been to New York but I have been told how confusing it is and I've some bad stories. The H&C isn't confusing for us forum users but it's easy to forget how confused and flustered some passengers get sometimes over relatively simple situations.

 

[announcements]

As regards "Hammersmith line", the Northern line on-board announcements currently say "Change for Circle and Hammersmith" thus treating it as one line. Obviously they're alluding to the management structure more than anything.

The H&C *was* part of the Met until 1988.

I thought it was 1990. Evidence for this is the mock-up of the C Stock refurbishment in 1989 still having 'Metropolitan line' on the car line diagrams: http://www.flickr.com/photos/25347284@N04/4528016521/in/set-72157623286048113/

Either way, it operated as a separate "Hammersmith & City" service for a long time prior to the official change.

 

[A60K]

I believe it was around Summer 1990 that the H+C got a separate identity and colour. Two other names that were considered were 'Regency Line' and 'Crescent Line' according to LRT News back then.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Underground Urban Myth No.2 -
Announcement by a H & C driver who shall remain anonymous
"Woof, Woof, Woof - This is a Barking train"

 

[trentside]

Underground Urban Myth No.2 -
Announcement by a H & C driver who shall remain anonymous
"Woof, Woof, Woof - This is a Barking train"

All the evidence you need that working the Circle drives you Barking...

 

[12CSVT]

I agree that the current set up with the Circle / Hammersmith & City lines is a farce.

Perhaps there are two possibilities to improve the situation.

1) Restore the Circle Line to its origional form.
2) Merge the Circle and Hammersmith & City lines (ie Hammersmith, Paddington, Liverpool Street, Aldgate, Tower Hill, High Street Kensington, Paddington, Liverpool Street, Whitechapel, Plaistow/Barking).

 

[SS4]

I agree that the current set up with the Circle / Hammersmith & City lines is a farce.

Perhaps there are two possibilities to improve the situation.

1) Restore the Circle Line to its origional form.
2) Merge the Circle and Hammersmith & City lines (ie Hammersmith, Paddington, Liverpool Street, Aldgate, Tower Hill, High Street Kensington, Paddington, Liverpool Street, Whitechapel, Plaistow/Barking).

It was my understanding that abandoned option 1 because of increasing delays.

My idea would be to transfer the Southern Circle (from Tower Hill to South Kensington clockwise) to the District (as well as the Edgware road part), the Northern half of the circle (Hammersmith to Liverpool Street) to the H&C

 

[jon0844]

My only gripe with the H&C / Circle changes is down to all trains going to Hammersmith.

While the H&C platform at Paddington is nicer to access the Heathrow Express, Heathrow Connect and many other paltforms, until they rebuild the station and hopefully upgrade the platforms, it's a bloody nightmare to get to/from the platform and use the stairs.

If you were rushing to get a train, good luck. It can take a good few minutes to exit, and then you'll get stuck at the gates by people who seem unable to use tickets/Oyster cards and gateline staff that seem to be just as slow.

I suppose you could change at Edgware Road, but that isn't really going to save any time.

 

[SwindonPkwy]

The changes to the Circle Line have certainly been detrimental to Paddington interchanges. The new H&C station cannot come soon enough. Of course, even when it is complete, the confusion (especially for eastbound Circle Line passengers) will remain.
Since the Circle Line is nolonger a 'circular' line, I agree with those that think this is the name that should go. Services, as previously described, would be Met, District or H&C.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

At the end of the rush hours the Circle Line service would wind down by a train or two with them either going round and stabling at Barking or at Hammersmith. Certain of the more miscreant drivers would put Barking or Hammersmith up on the blind early (i.e. Gloucester Rd W/B with Barking or Tower Hill E/B with Hammersmith) so they would have a destination that was physically the oppostie direction to what they were travelling in. I am sure of course in these more 'professional' times such behaviour has been eradicated.

As a kind of suggestion why not the following services

- Upminster - Inner Rail - Upminster

- Wimbledon - Inner Rail - Wimbledon

- Hammersmith - Richmond

- Ealing Broadway - Outer Rail - Ealing Broadway

- Olympia - Barking

Would seem confusing at first but people would get to know the routing in time.

 

[MCR247]

The problem I have with the situation is that there are signs pointing to the H&C platforms at Pad, they are closer to most platforms and they are the platforms with direct trains, yet you can't buy a ticket there. :x

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It was my understanding that abandoned option 1 because of increasing delays.

That was the theory, but I have personally experienced more delays on the Circle since they changed it than I did before they changed it. Has anyone else had the same experience, or am I just unlucky?

 

[Class377/5]

Has S Stock roll out finished on the met? As I understand it the A stock can only go to Aldgate.

I really don't understand what exactly is confusing though? If you want to reduce passenger confusion then get rid of the circle line - I believe it has only two chords to itself and no stations

The S8 stock for the Met will be completed in 2012.

S stock are working some services to Aldgate now and an s stock train has been to Hammersmith.

There is nothing stopping S stock going to Hammersmith. The S stock is a smaller gauge than the A stock so it can fit on all parts of the subsurface.

The S8 train that visited Hammersmith wasn't actually an S8 during it visit. They removed a car so technically it was an S7 (which is what the other sub surface lines are getting) and was there for testing only. Not it's back at Neasden and I believe it's back to an 8 car.

The 'Hammersmith & City Line' is a mouthful compared to other Underground lines. They may as well have named it the Hammersmith line. Or, had they been futuristic enough, they could have called it the Westfield line!

Er the Hammersmith & City line was changed in 1990, it was planned well in advance of that. LUL staff don't have crystal balls so no-one could have predicted Westfield being built there.

Actually the Hammersmith wouldnt be the Westfield Line, the Central Line would be as it's the only line connecting the two mega shopping centres.

 

[Metrailway]

I don't think the current Hammersmith & Circle lines are confusing.

However, if it is possible to install a crossover just south of Aldgate, I would change the Circle into a Aldgate - Edgware Rd via Victoria service (and thus become part of the District). This would retain the useful service over the two chords which are solely used by Circle services.

This obviously means a loss of service on the northern end of the Circle, which would be countered with a doubling of frequency of the H&C line.