Halton Curve

[6Gman]

Do people really think only 1tph in each direction is the total demand?

Liverpool (+airport) and North Wales are hugely linked, and I think there could be a lot of suppressed demand. Wrexham could have a service at 1tph and then you could have a fast and a slow (say all stations to Chester, although that could be the Wrexham) - you'd want to serve Llandudno but then Bangor and Holyhead might be useful too. I could see this supporting at least 2tph each direction, possibly 3 in the longer term.

I repeat my earlier post - what would the timetable look like?

You seem to be suggesting (as a minimum!)

L/pool - slow - Chester - Wrexham
L/pool - fast - Chester - Llandudno

So are these in addition to, or replacements for, existing services west of Chester?

 

[Gareth]

I think it was the Wales RUS which suggested a 1tph service from Chester to Liverpool Lime Street calling all stations bar Edge Hill. I'm guessing that's a bear minimum scenario but if it gets the curve back in use, it could well pave the way for future services.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

One thing that may help a service over the Curve are the tolls that are coming on the Runcorn-Widnes road bridges, once the new one is built.

 

[8A Rail]

One thing that may help a service over the Curve are the tolls that are coming on the Runcorn-Widnes road bridges, once the new one is built.

Not sure about that to be honest but understand your thinking. I think most people outside necessary business will think twice in crossing the Mersey and that does not mean they will use the train in consequence. Still cheaper to go by car if there is more one person in the car rather than go by train due to the structure of the fares, so it wont benefit the curve.

(Certainly make people think twice about saying going to a trip to somewhere in Cheshire / Wirral when they will in fact go the opposite direction just not to pay the tolls for two tunnels and two bridges! Personally I think the powers to be are putting an invisible barrier between Liverpool / Widnes etc and Birkenhead / Wirral / Ellesmere Port / Runcorn. The first non toll crossing will be at Warrington - where else in the country does this happen? - Anyway I digress this is about railways).

 

[8H]

It's not the journeys from Liverpool centre that would be improved.

Lime Street Chester via Runcorn was 60 minutes all stations.

Today it is 44 minutes Merseyrail.

South Parkway/Allerton to Chester via Runcorn however used to take appx 45 minutes, against 72 today via Merseyrail and Birkenhead.

Depends how much South Liverpool and Airport potential there is I imagine.

 

[transmanche]

The first non toll crossing will be at Warrington - where else in the country does this happen?

I'd say there are quite a few places where finding the first non-toll crossing of a river or estuary requires a long detour.

• Tyne: working in from the coast, the first non-toll crossing for vehicles is the Tyne Bridge.
• Thames: working in from the coast, the first 24-hour non-toll crossing for vehicles is the Blackwall Tunnel. (The first non-toll crossing for vehicles is the Woolwich Ferry.)
• Severn: working in from the coast, the first non-toll crossings for vehicles are the A40 & A417.

 

[snowball]

The Humber has no non-toll crossing in its entire length.

Until tolls were dropped on Scottish bridges a few years ago, the first non-toll road crossing of the Forth was at Kincardine and of the Tay was near Perth.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

Merseytravel have agreed to fund the research for the next stage of a rail project which will allow for the outline design and construction of the Halton Curve.

Announced 17th Jan.

http://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/archive/15075-rail-link-reinstatement-progresses.html