Had Railcard discount when not holding a Railcard

[Joe1008]

Hi all,

Today I've travelled from ExCel to Iver. I have touched my Oyster Card in at ExCel and arrived at Ealing to change. Before I went to the platform, I touched out as that's where the Contactless option ends. I then went to the fast ticket machine to buy a ticket for Iver.

I've recently made redundant and was planning to go back to uni. Thought of getting a rail card to save travel cost. I then took a look at options of how much the fare i can save for daily travel. I then pressed back, and selected the ticket to buy - because I did not start over, the machine gave me the ticket for young people. This is my fault- I did notice it when I was proceed to payment as it was not the usual 4.10 that I pay, but 3.65. I didn't try to start over as I did not get give the 50 pence difference much thoughts.

Then I was stopped and of course I have no rail card to give... The officer took my details and said there will be a letter sent to me.

I am quite worried on whether this will ask for prosecution. I have been travelling to London for the past three years and have all bank record to proof that I've paid the full fare. Seriously that the only one is today. I can submit all my bank statements as proof if it helps.

I truly regret that I cut corners this time. But fear of being prosecuted for fare evasion. I'll wait for the letter to come and give the statement: it is my fault. But anyone has any advice on how to avoid going to court for this?

 

[najaB]

I truly regret that I cut corners this time. But fear of being prosecuted for fare evasion. I'll wait for the letter to come and give the statement: it is my fault. But anyone has any advice on how to avoid going to court for this?

Who did the RPI work for: TfL or GWR?

 

[Joe1008]

Who did the RPI work for: TfL or GWR?

I don't know he did not say. But he said he will forward what he recorded to the train company so I think GwR

 

[Joe1008]

I'm not sure but at the end he said he would send it to the train company and the company will contact me.

 

[Mag_seven]

Thought of getting a rail card to save travel cost. I then took a look at options of how much the fare i can save for daily travel. I then pressed back, and selected the ticket to buy - because I did not start over, the machine gave me the ticket for young people. This is my fault- I did notice it when I was proceed to payment as it was not the usual 4.10 that I pay, but 3.65. I didn't try to start over as I did not get give the 50 pence difference much thoughts.

Sorry I find this very confusing - you seem to imply that one minute you realised it was a YP ticket you were buying but the next minute you didn't?

 

[Joe1008]

I did realise it when I was keying in my pin as the amount on the screen's not the usual fare I normally pay. But I proceeded to purchase anyway as I did not think much about the less than one pound difference... I thought I would just pay the difference if I was asked...

 

[yorkie]

I did realise it when I was keying in my pin as the amount on the screen's not the usual fare I normally pay..

What fare did you actually pay? The fares you quote are at odds with what I see.
http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=EAL&dest=IVR
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

as I did not think much about the less than one pound difference. I thought I would just pay the difference if I was asked...

So you knew it wasn't correct?

I suggest you try to settle the matter out of court, as I doubt a court case would be good for you.

 

[najaB]

I don't know he did not say. But he said he will forward what he recorded to the train company so I think GwR

So first off - bad news: by knowingly purchasing and attempting to travel with an invalid ticket a prosecution under the Regulation of Railways Act would be appropriate, and a conviction will result in a fine and a criminal record.

The good(ish) news: GWR are more likely to agree to a settlement than TfL would be, so there is a chance you will be able to avoid a conviction. This will cost you significantly more than the £1 you avoided paying.

 

[Joe1008]

Who did the RPI work for: TfL or GWR?

So first off - bad news: by knowingly purchasing and attempting to travel with an invalid ticket a prosecution under the Regulation of Railways Act would be appropriate, and a conviction will result in a fine and a criminal record.

The good(ish) news: GWR are more likely to agree to a settlement than TfL would be, so there is a chance you will be able to avoid a conviction. This will cost you significantly more than the £1 you avoided paying.

Thanks, yes I expect a fine as it was wrongdoing. I would accept it as this is a good lesson learnt. The thing I am very keen to avoid is criminal record. From your words, this seems likely. I will wait for the letter to come and ask you guys opinion again. Thanks again.

 

[najaB]

The thing I am very keen to avoid is criminal record. From your words, this seems likely.

IF it gets to court then a conviction, fine and criminal record is likely. GWR may be willing to let this matter be resolved by way of a private settlement seeing as you aren't known to them as a fare dodger and the fare avoided was not exceedingly large. If they are so inclined, the amount involved will almost certainly be more than £50 and probably less than £100.

 

[yorkie]

Very few staff would refuse to issue an excess from a Railcard discounted ticket to a non-Railcard discounted ticket. It is the policy of sensible TOCs (including GWR; the person sat next to me has known this to be done many times) to allow such excesses to be issued. The OP should have brought this to the attention of staff. But, of course, it's too late for that now, so the only advice we can give is to settle the matter out of court. I don't think there is anything we can add.

 

[Joe1008]

Very few staff would refuse to issue an excess from a Railcard discounted ticket to a non-Railcard discounted ticket. It is the policy of sensible TOCs (including GWR; the person sat next to me has known this to be done many times) to allow such excesses to be issued. The OP should have brought this to the attention of staff. But, of course, it's too late for that now, so the only advice we can give is to settle the matter out of court. I don't think there is anything we can add.

Thank you very much. I do hope this can be settled out of court as I have never been convicted before - never tried to dodge a ticket or buy a discounted ticket. I will keep everyone who helped here posted.

 

[najaB]

Thank you very much. I do hope this can be settled out of court as I have never been convicted before - never tried to dodge a ticket or buy a discounted ticket. I will keep everyone who helped here posted.

As others have counselled, don't try to make out to GWR that this was an innocent mistake - as TheEdge explained it is almost impossible to buy a discounted ticket without specifically selecting that option from the TVM. You knew the correct price for your ticket as it is a journey you make frequently.

In your correspondence with GWR don't try to place the blame anywhere other than your own door - you need to impress on them that it was an error of judgement that will never, ever be repeated. If you are forthright and honest - and hold up your hand and accept all the blame - there is every chance the prosecution team will go easy on you rather than drag you through the courts. Please let us know how you get on.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . . But, of course, it's too late for that now, so the only advice we can give is to settle the matter out of court. I don't think there is anything we can add.

Thank you very much. I do hope this can be settled out of court as I have never been convicted before . . . .

yorkie's advice is quite correct, but as if follows on from a statement of company policies which only apply to people who are correcting their error before travel, I'm anxious to ensure that you appreciate the significance of these very different situations ; from your reply I'm not sure that you have.
Your opportunity to correct the error was after your travel.

An 'out-of-Court' settlement (OOC) does not follow from any Company policy; it is a possible outcome of a constructive negotiation between the two parties to litigation. [Some authoritative sources claim that an OOC settlement is not possible once a private prosecution has begun - but that is not correct in practice].

I'm not sure what significance you are trying to bring to our attention by saying "I have never been convicted before".

In short : so what? I'm sure that many people who commit very grave crimes have no prior convictions.

In detail, an argument that a suspected criminal should avoid conviction because of a lack of any prior record of successful convictions seems to me indicative of poor standards of evidence and procedure by the prosecutors of their prior offences! And as it is common knowledge that recently, the CPS has been institutionally incapable of prosecuting thousands of offences to the standards required, then anyone working in the prosecution of crime who reads that remark will come to the same understanding as me - that you are a regular offender who has evaded conviction so far, due to failings in their prosecution, and not due to their lawful activities.

Please be careful how you defend yourself! This illustrates one good reason for instructing a Criminal Defence Solicitor to act on your behalf.