Had problems taking pictures of the railways?

[ralphchadkirk]

i think he thought i was doing it for commercial purposes.

?

 

[alexdodds]

?

thought i was videoing for commercial purposes but i corrected him on that

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Oh right - sorry I misread your post.

 

[Matt Taylor]

Do the NR guidelines still apply at LOROL stations?

Had an issue at Carpenders Park this afternoon, staff member asked where I came from and asked for ID both of which I refused to give, he took the usual 'I think photography is not permitted for security reasons' line and when I still failed to capitulate he said he would speak to his manager. A few minutes later he returned saying that photography was not permitted without prior permission from head office. I made it clear that I felt he was misinformed but seeing as I'm not sure if Carpenders Park comes under the jurisdiction of TFL or NR I took the chance to jump on an arriving 313 to Headstone Lane rather than escalate the situation which would have probably meant missing 90021+WB64 and 70001 on 4L93 which were what I was really after.....and the fabulous light was just too good to waste arguing with someone I've never met before.

I will be contacting TFL customer services on the matter, at the very least the staff member was overstepping the mark by asking for ID and asking where i live.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

A letter from TfL to a photographer who had trouble at a station on the NLL was reproduced in Rail Magazine a few months ago in which TfL made it clear that the LOROL managed stations had initially moved to the same rules as the Underground but had since reverted to applying the NR guidelines.

 

[43167]

Do the NR guidelines still apply at LOROL stations?

Had an issue at Carpenders Park this afternoon, staff member asked where I came from and asked for ID both of which I refused to give, he took the usual 'I think photography is not permitted for security reasons' line and when I still failed to capitulate he said he would speak to his manager. A few minutes later he returned saying that photography was not permitted without prior permission from head office. I made it clear that I felt he was misinformed but seeing as I'm not sure if Carpenders Park comes under the jurisdiction of TFL or NR I took the chance to jump on an arriving 313 to Headstone Lane rather than escalate the situation which would have probably meant missing 90021+WB64 and 70001 on 4L93 which were what I was really after.....and the fabulous light was just too good to waste arguing with someone I've never met before.

I will be contacting TFL customer services on the matter, at the very least the staff member was overstepping the mark by asking for ID and asking where i live.

The NRES site says its managed by London Overground.

Anyway on my own trip today, I saw why sometimes we get problems. I was at Northallerton for about an hour & there was someone filming on the upside platform and everytime an express went through non-stop he was waving his arm up & down to get the drivers to sound their horns. Dont know about everyone else but I think doing this is stupid and some drivers may think theres a problem.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

A letter from TfL to a photographer who had trouble at a station on the NLL was reproduced in Rail Magazine a few months ago in which TfL made it clear that the LOROL managed stations had initially moved to the same rules as the Underground but had since reverted to applying the NR guidelines.

I remember that.

 

[Matt Taylor]

Evidently the NRCoC NR byelaws apply. I have made a complaint to London Overground as the whole episode was uneccessary, the staff member had no business asking for my ID and address and his manager is (at best) very ill informed if he thinks that photography is banned without permission from HO.

 

[142094]

Was at King's Cross on Thursday, around 5pm and went to sign in at the office. The on duty manager asked me a lot of questions, and initially said that due to it being peak time he normally wouldn't allow it. However eventually he did let me to on. Couple of odd things I noticed:

1) He asked me for ID, never had this done before
2) Told me to give my mobile number in case I needed to be contacted
3) Didn't get me to sign in or wear a badge, as he said if I did sign in I would be his responsibility.

In the end I had a couple of hours on the end of the platform, and no-one hassled me. One NR guy came up but just asked if I had taken many pictures.

 

[alexdodds]

Ahhhhh the old peak time rule been used again which has caught me out at Leeds and St Pancras before. i have had to show ID a few times. I have used my railcard, get around bus ID and my bank card and have all worked.

I videoed Kings Cross back in march went in at 5pm and NR didnt mention peak time. the duty manager said to me you are our extra pair of eyes as well as ears.

When i video there i am only in for 30 to 40 minutes and i can get 10 minutes footage in that time.

 

[Bittern]

Had no trouble in Glasgow and the suburbs on Thursday even had no trouble on the Subway ether though i did get a few strange looks from one or two teens at Bellgrove and Lenzie.

At Lenzie i told one of the staff what I was doing and he said i needed written permission but when i showed him the guidelines he said ok with a smile and told me the usual no flash, stand clear of the edge rules etc. I think he thought i was doing it for commercial purposes.

I dont know what it is but i always seem to think First Scotrail are more strict with photography on stations than any other TOC. And i dont know if a policy exists on the subway.

Honestly, I take photographs quite a lot, and ScotRail staff never ever bother me. In fact, some were doing it themselves when Miss Cromwell and the Black Fives were in central.

 

[Matt Taylor]

A very disappointing response from London Overground, evidently photography is now only permitted at the discretion of the station manager whose permission must be sought in advance:

"To clarify our policy regarding photography at railway stations: while there is no blanket rule stating that photography is not allowed, photographers must seek authorisation from the relevant Station Manager prior to taking pictures. It is at the discretion of the Manager as to whether they permit you to take photographs or not.



While you were able to take photographs undetected further down the line, I do not recommend this as a course of action. Next time you wish to take pictures at a railway station, please find the Station Manager first to ask permission."


This policy seems entirely at odds with the NRCoC, Byelaws and guidelines to which LO claim they adhere to.

 

[anthony263]

thats silly, from what i have heard there wre a load of people taking photos on the east london line now that its been re-opened and i dont think they had to seek permission first.

I have been told that London Overground, are actually covered by the national rail guidelines rather than seperate byelaws like London underground

 

[jon0844]

Tourists are going to be getting done all over the place.

 

[Ferret]

It's just a simple matter of London Overground's customer service team not knowing what they're talking about! I'd suggest replying back and highlighting the relevant parts of the Enthusiasts Guidelines, and inviting them to reconsider their response.

I love their choice of words too! 'Undetected' - as if it's in a station manager's job description to try and detect railway enthusiasts committing the heinous act of taking photograph of a train!

 

[jon0844]

Someone probably heard about rules for commercial photography and Chinese whispers got us to where they are now.

And, for commercial purposes (e.g. TV or film) I think you need to actually get permission from higher up than a station manager.

 

[142094]

And, for commercial purposes (e.g. TV or film) I think you need to actually get permission from higher up than a station manager.

Think most with most TOCs you have to get permission from some department or other, and some say you have to have an escort. No doubt a station manager giving permission for commercial shoots would be bollocked.

 

[ChrisCooper]

Commercial videoing or photography will normally cost too, as afterall money is being made from it so the railways want a share in that. I'm sure they would also want to know exactly what was going to be filmed and check things like scripts (don't want to show the company in a bad light). The same sort of thing would apply to commercial filming on any private property. Of cource sometimes they will get around it by building a set in a studio instead of filming on location, yet quite a few times sets have been so realistic that property owners (including I'm sure London Underground) have complained about illigal commercial filming on their property when actually it's all been done in a studio.

 

[nedchester]

One reason that I will NEVER go and inform staff is because there is the risk that some jobsworth will say no also why are enthusiasts singled out when tourists etc can take as many photos as they like at railway stations?

Remember that even if you do speak to staff you just have to INFORM them of your presence, you DO NOT have to ask for permission as NR and the BTP have given it to you already. If they threaten to call the BTP then let them and then show them this:

http://www.btp.police.uk/pdf.aspx?page=319

Interestingly Scotrail 'on their website' ask you to sign this document and provide ID:

http://www.scotrail.co.uk/content/guidelines-station-photography.html

However many consider the document to be illegal as it may contravene the Data Protection Act as they do not state what is done with the information. And after all with much of Scotland being swaped by tourists in the summer, do they require tourists to sign in whilst taking pictures of for example the steam at Fort William and Mallaig? I think not!

 

[37401]

I never go inform staff either, I like your thinking on letting them call BTP my mate did that and Virgin got done and payed out cash to my mate

 

[43167]

One reason that I will NEVER go and inform staff is because there is the risk that some jobsworth will say no also why are enthusiasts singled out when tourists etc can take as many photos as they like at railway stations?

Remember that even if you do speak to staff you just have to INFORM them of your presence, you DO NOT have to ask for permission as NR and the BTP have given it to you already. If they threaten to call the BTP then let them and then show them this:

http://www.btp.police.uk/pdf.aspx?page=319

Interestingly Scotrail 'on their website' ask you to sign this document and provide ID:

http://www.scotrail.co.uk/content/guidelines-station-photography.html

However many consider the document to be illegal as it may contravene the Data Protection Act as they do not state what is done with the information. And after all with much of Scotland being swaped by tourists in the summer, do they require tourists to sign in whilst taking pictures of for example the steam at Fort William and Mallaig? I think not!

Ive been in scotland all weekend and not been bothered once. Been to Haymarket, Inverkeithing, Dalmeny, & Arbroath, all staffed, with CCTV, no problems at all.

 

[alexdodds]

I had no trouble as usual in Birmingham today (07/5/10) although at New Street i had only just got my tripod out of my bag and one of the despatch staff came to check on me. Thankfuly i had a NR sticker with rail enthusiast on it i got from the reception and so he give me a smile

This shows what can happern if you take a risk at Network Rail managed stations and dont get a badge from reception. You could get in a bit of trouble

 

[nedchester]

I had no trouble as usual in Birmingham today (07/5/10) although at New Street i had only just got my tripod out of my bag and one of the despatch staff came to check on me. Thankfuly i had a NR sticker with rail enthusiast on it i got from the reception and so he give me a smile

This shows what can happern if you take a risk at Network Rail managed stations and dont get a badge from reception. You could get in a bit of trouble

What kind of 'trouble'?!!! :roll::roll:

 

[37401]

Yeah, when I was fotting the 90 set leaving after I got off it from Coventry some woman came up and said I needed to "sign in" I said i wasnt staying and I was told "im not allowed to take photos" hmmm

 

[alexdodds]

What kind of 'trouble'?!!! :roll::roll:

You know, been told by staff to stop photographing etc
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yeah, when I was fotting the 90 set leaving after I got off it from Coventry some woman came up and said I needed to "sign in" I said i wasnt staying and I was told "im not allowed to take photos" hmmm

I thought Virgin Trains had filming and photography posters at all their stations they manage or has Coventry not got them up yet.

 

[nedchester]

You know, been told by staff to stop photographing etc
[

All part of the UK wide paranoia if you ask me. There is no requirement to 'sign in' - they are also guidelines and not the law!!

 

[Mr Spock]

The only time I ever signed in I realised that they were just taking the "p".

It was at Liverpool St when the NX guy told me I had to sign in with NR if I wanted to take pictures so being in a good mood I went to NR to do just that. Told the guy what I wanted to do so he got me to sign the book and gave me a pass, just as I was leaving he said that only gave me permission to be on the station and if I wanted to take pictures I had to get permission from NX as they were their trains. Gave him back the pass and went and took pics anyway as the NX guy had diasappeared by then.

Now I just take pictures when I want.

 

[alexdodds]

All part of the UK wide paranoia if you ask me. There is no requirement to 'sign in' - they are also guidelines and not the law!!

If they tell me to sign in then I do it.

We all have different ways of getting permission to photo/video I prefer to do it the easy way.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

All part of the UK wide paranoia if you ask me. There is no requirement to 'sign in' - they are also guidelines and not the law!!

Stations are private property. Best to do what the landowner wants then, isn't it.

 

[alexdodds]

It was at Liverpool St when the NX guy told me I had to sign in with NR if I wanted to take pictures so being in a good mood I went to NR to do just that. Told the guy what I wanted to do so he got me to sign the book and gave me a pass, just as I was leaving he said that only gave me permission to be on the station and if I wanted to take pictures I had to get permission from NX as they were their trains. Gave him back the pass and went and took pics anyway as the NX guy had diasappeared by then.

Did you take the Network Rail guidelines with you. It says you can take pictures on their managed stations.

Liverpool Street always seems to be bit of an unfriendly station to enthusiasts and more strict with photography than any other.

 

[nedchester]

Stations are private property. Best to do what the landowner wants then, isn't it.

True but for many many years all this 'you can't take photographs' stuff didn't exist so why now.

It is also unenforceable. Do they ask every tourist not to use a camera on a railway station? Of course they don't so why are enthusiasts singled out.

Even the guidelines don't even require you to sign in merely to inform them of your presence.

Have to say I rarely go to stations to take photos these days but do often take photos on my travels by rail.

Next week when I am on the CFPS tour to Penzance are station staff going to ask me and 400 odd others to sign in at Crewe, Birmingham International, Brsitol TM, Plymouth, Penzance etc.................ah yes thought not.