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Gypsy/Romani people in Britain

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Aussie_Rail

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Hi there,

My last essay for the year for my History class was about the Gypsy/Romani people in Britain, and I was talking to a friend today about them and I wanted to hear some discussion about them from people in Britain, as Gypsies are either very rare or nonexistent here in Australia.

The general stereotypes are that they are thieves, dirty, untrustworthy people that live in horse drawn wagons and tell peoples fortunes.

What are your experiences of them and are they really as bad as the general consensus says?
 
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thefab444

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The majority of so-called "gypsies" in this country are actually "travellers"; people who drive round in battered 4x4s and caravans, refusing to pay taxes and staying illegally on public/private land. They often cause a mess and are associated with crime and such like. They sometimes come complete with a dodgy fun fair, otherwise they do slipshod building/renovation work to earn money.

I've never actually met or seen a real gypsy so I won't comment on them.
 

mumrar

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Whilst I agree with Celia, the question was not about travellers. We see very few true gypsies here, but from my own experience, it's these newer travellers who are the dirty thieving types. I've never had a problem with Romani gypsies, but stuff always starts being broken or stolen if travellers move nearby. The travellers have fostered an attitude of intolerance to all travelling people including gypsies. Just before Christmas some gypsies settled near us, and they had magnificent horses, in fine condition and really well kept accomodation. They were friendly, took time to speak to people, and were good neighbours. That didn't stop some people giving them grief for no reason. Even my Mom made spurious claims of how they'd leave the muddy grass ruined. When they did leave they had stored the horse manure, placed it around affected areas, and it grew back. I'd be happy for them to return this year.
 

mumrar

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Gypsy. urg. We had a load moved into the field opposite my house. Wrecked the place, the children where ****ting in the bushes!

So where should they go, being as they live in wooden caravans with no sanitation or plumbing?
 

jamesontheroad

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What are your experiences of them and are they really as bad as the general consensus says?

Sorry, I thought you were doing some history research? Asking people for experiences won't provide you with any substantive or useful information.

For something more constructive, more rigorously researched and much more poignant, see this report commissioned by Oxfam and produced by the University of the West of Scotland on the living conditions of Roma people here in Glasgow:

http://www.oxfam.org.uk/resources/ukpoverty/downloads/roma_report.pdf

The research found that many of the problems of the Roma stem from their deliberate exclusion from citizenship in the EU countries from which they originate. This exclusion is a result of deep-rooted racism at all levels of society. Clearly more needs to be done to protect the rights of Roma people in countries such as the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Romania and in this the EU, and hence all ofits member states, have a significant role to play. Of course, the protection of the rights of Roma is already a legal requirement placed on all member states, new and old, due to two legally binding EU directives known as the Race Equality Directive (2000/43/EC) and the Employment Equality Directive (2000/79/EC).6 These two directives alongside the European Convention on Human Rights, and the Charter of Fundamental Rights associated with the 2007 Treaty of Lisbon (in the process of ratification by member states) form the legal basis for the protection of rights in employment and for combating exclusion and persecution motivated by racism. However, it is clear that a great deal more needs to be done to address the specific barriers Roma face (for example, through the adoption of a specific EU Roma directive.7) as Roma continue to migrate in search of opportunities and an improved quality of life - a reality that cannot be divorced from the processes of marginalisation and exclusion that they continue to face in their ‘home’ countries.

In the context of EU enlargement eastwards, it is perhaps rather easy to assume that Slovak Roma, like other A8 migrants, are now ‘voluntary migrants’ in the traditional sense and that, should they not find the opportunities or quality of life improvements they hoped for, are free to go back and work in their ‘home’ country. However, given their on-going persecution and exclusion in Slovakia and the Czech Republic, it is not unreasonable to view the Roma as a group that continue to be ‘pushed’ abroad as much as being ‘pulled’ by the promise of employment.8 As a minority ethnic group within Slovakia, they are not in the same position as ‘majority’ populations, such as ethnic Poles living in Poland or indeed ethnic Slovaks living in Slovakia, who, whilst undoubtedly suffering high levels of unemployment and depressed wages at ‘home’, are not, racially discriminated against or the focus of collectively targeted abuse and violence. As a result the Slovak Roma can be seen to occupy that grey area between ‘forced’ and ‘voluntary’ migration embodied in popular constructions of ‘economic migrants’ and ‘asylum seekers’ respectively.

Governments, both at UK and Scottish level, have not only failed to play their part in safeguarding the rights of the Roma as a recognised ethnic group in Europe, but have also failed to promote and raise awareness of Roma rights within the UK. Indeed, whilst the Roma has a right to reside and work within the UK, they have enjoyed little active protection by Government agencies in the area of employment, housing and social benefits. This has lead to the increased vulnerability of this already marginalised ethnic minority.

Often in part-time, temporary employment, outwith mainstream ‘legal’ structures as a result of their exclusion from public sector employment services and reliance on ‘gangmasters’ for work and housing, Roma are often unable to access the basic in-work benefits many other people working in the UK take for granted - a contract of employment, a minimum wage, pension rights, paid holidays, maternity leave, and paid sick leave to name a few. Both under EU and UK law the Roma have an ethnic status that safeguards their cultural and social rights and yet there is little recognition and few proactive processes in place within the UK to ensure these rights can be accessed and enjoyed by the Roma. This is despite the adoption in 2000 by the UK, along with all EU member states, of National Action Plans (NAPs).
 

mumrar

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buy a house, get a job.

And even then, there isnt any reason to wreck the places they take over

So, without the world being covered in tarmac how would your impact on fields with rain look? The grass is very resilient and can grow back, which is more than can be said of the large swathes of concrete and tarmac we have with our houses. So which is the bigger environmental impact out of those? Why should they get proper jobs, they live as a self sufficient community providing what they need for themselves without taking from the benefit system. Just because I don't choose their way of life it doesn't mean I shall deliberately pander to stereotypes and look down on them. A lack of understanding is what has always fostered suffering in small communities, such as native Americans, Aboriginals etc.
 

SouthEastern-465

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The majority of so-called "gypsies" in this country are actually "travellers"; people who drive round in battered 4x4s and caravans, refusing to pay taxes and staying illegally on public/private land. They often cause a mess and are associated with crime and such like. They sometimes come complete with a dodgy fun fair, otherwise they do slipshod building/renovation work to earn money.

I've never actually met or seen a real gypsy so I won't comment on them.

He is spot on having had trouble with them before myself.
 

D107

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Gypsies/Travellers. Don't confuse the two.

A Google search on Roma groups does bring up some disturbing themes surrounding child trafficking and ATM fraud. Needless to say this is not prevalent throughout all Roma groups, just some.
 

Phoenix

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All I say unreservedly is that they are guests in this country our laws may dictate they are allowed to stay but they should be gracious and treat our country with the respect it deserves that about it really it's all fine by me otherwise.
 

mumrar

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All I say unreservedly is that they are guests in this country our laws may dictate they are allowed to stay but they should be gracious and treat our country with the respect it deserves

I agree with the concept Phoenix, but having travelled home late on Friday and Saturday nights, I'll say it is not the Roma gypsies treating this country with disrespect. The attitude and behaviour of grown adults, some approaching 50 years of age, truly appalled me. I have the option of moving to Oz soon if I choose, and whilst it's not just this, my decision is based largely on the attitudes and demeanor of who Nick Griffin would call 'indigenous British people'
 

73110

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Back to the question..

The general stereotypes are that they are thieves, dirty, untrustworthy people that live in horse drawn wagons and tell peoples fortunes.

The ones that live in the horse drawn wagons are the ones that are highly respected by many and are few and far between. Not many of them in England but more over in Ireland.

The others who most of us know quite well who we see in laybys, public parks etc are commonly known as 'Pikeys'. These are the ones who make a mess and leave the place looking like a bomb (a rubbish bomb I might add) has gone off around them.

They have no respect for anyone or anything at all, nothing. These are the ones who have the 4x4's, I wouldn't say battered, everyone I have seen and there are a fair few down this way, have brand new 4x4's, usually paid for in cash. They work hard and most of them are quite wealthy. Some of the vans they live in are worth a fortune.

If only these people treated where they are around them with a little respect then perhaps they would get some back but in the meantime it is a constant battle when ever they pitch up somewhere new.

The solution is perhaps to build more designated places where they can live together. There are already a few of these about but for the majority of them, as well as having somewhere permanent to live with all the facilities, this in turn means they would have to start paying taxes and there are not many about who will do this hence the catch 22 situation we have had the last few years. Build them permanent places to live with all mod cons so they don't invade the local park/beauty spot and keep them all in one place seems ideal but as I say, they are not going to give up their free lifestyle as they will have to become legal tax paying citizens. Not going to happen is it.

In reply to the 'buying a house getting a job' comment, most already own property anyway and most, if not all, work and make more than any of us make for the year!
 

poshbakerloo

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So, without the world being covered in tarmac how would your impact on fields with rain look? The grass is very resilient and can grow back, which is more than can be said of the large swathes of concrete and tarmac we have with our houses. So which is the bigger environmental impact out of those? Why should they get proper jobs, they live as a self sufficient community providing what they need for themselves without taking from the benefit system. Just because I don't choose their way of life it doesn't mean I shall deliberately pander to stereotypes and look down on them. A lack of understanding is what has always fostered suffering in small communities, such as native Americans, Aboriginals etc.

Its not like just me being snobby. I don't have problems with people who live in trailers etc. But they should have there own plot of land where they can set up there little community up LEGALLY. And also not have their wild feral children on the loose...I'm not just talking out of my butt here...this is what I have seen for myself.
 
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