GWR to Axminster

[davetheguard]

All stations Axminster-Exeter would typically exclude St James Park, because while physically on this line, it is operationally only on the Avocet line to Exmouth

Agreed, although that is only a matter of timetabling; I can't see any physical reasion why an Axminster to Exeter train can't stop at St. James Park if required. The short platforms have recently been lengthened, and are fine for a Turbo or 4 car 150.

However, they would not be long enough to accommodate a SWR train if formed of more than one set, but there's probably no justification for stopping Waterloo trains there anyway. Indeed a regular Devon Metro service to Axminster would hopefully lead to speed up of the Waterloo train by a reduction in calls at some of the smaller Devon stations.

 

[superalbs]

Interesting that the train isn’t currently scheduled to stop at St. James’ Park. No idea when the last train to stop at both St’ James’ Park and Pinhoe would’ve been!

I guess because when it was a SWR service, it also didn't stop there.

 

[RPI]

Agreed, although that is only a matter of timetabling; I can't see any physical reasion why an Axminster to Exeter train can't stop at St. James Park if required. The short platforms have recently been lengthened, and are fine for a Turbo or 4 car 150.

However, they would not be long enough to accommodate a SWR train if formed of more than one set, but there's probably no justification for stopping Waterloo trains there anyway. Indeed a regular Devon Metro service to Axminster would hopefully lead to speed up of the Waterloo train by a reduction in calls at some of the smaller Devon stations.

Could also be a timing issue as I note that the service as advertised at the moment also doesn't call at Whimple

 

[TheWalrus]

All stations Axminster-Exeter would typically exclude St James Park, because while physically on this line, it is operationally only on the Avocet line to Exmouth

Is there any reason for this or why it couldn’t be served by trains to/from Honiton?

 

[RPI]

Is there any reason for this or why it couldn’t be served by trains to/from Honiton?

Not anymore, it used to have a short platform that could only accommodate up to two 20m vehicles (only a 2 car 150 or 143 could fit), any other combination (other than a single 153!) Had to open one door only, this would never be practical on any of the busy SWR three or six car services. Both platforms can now accommodate 4 x 20m vehicles or 3 x 23m vehicles so technically a three car 159 could fit and a six car would be able to use SDO. I can't see much point though, SWR services into Exeter would actually be a free for all if they stopped at St James Park, at least now most of their passengers at least buy themselves a Pinhoe to Exeter Central ticket on their phone....

 

[TheWalrus]

Not anymore, it used to have a short platform that could only accommodate up to two 20m vehicles (only a 2 car 150 or 143 could fit), any other combination (other than a single 153!) Had to open one door only, this would never be practical on any of the busy SWR three or six car services. Both platforms can now accommodate 4 x 20m vehicles or 3 x 23m vehicles so technically a three car 159 could fit and a six car would be able to use SDO. I can't see much point though, SWR services into Exeter would actually be a free for all if they stopped at St James Park, at least now most of their passengers at least buy themselves a Pinhoe to Exeter Central ticket on their phone....

I remember one of the platforms was short so only the front door could be opened. So you think they might actually lose more revenue than they would gain if they called there?

 

[davetheguard]

I remember one of the platforms was short so only the front door could be opened. So you think they might actually lose more revenue than they would gain if they called there?

Exeter Central & St. David's have ticket barriers at the exits. Meanwhile, St. James Park......

 

[Class172]

I remember one of the platforms was short so only the front door could be opened. So you think they might actually lose more revenue than they would gain if they called there?

Even following the platform extensions local door operation is not unheard of. If a 158 ends up coupled with a 150 on an Exmouth diagram (which seems to be not uncommon in the past few weeks) then local door is still required at St James Park. I don’t know the exact length of the new platforms, but it would look to me that it’s about the same length as a 150+158, but clearly without the operational/safety margin that allows it to be used normally.

 

[RPI]

Even following the platform extensions local door operation is not unheard of. If a 158 ends up coupled with a 150 on an Exmouth diagram (which seems to be not uncommon in the past few weeks) then local door is still required at St James Park. I don’t know the exact length of the new platforms, but it would look to me that it’s about the same length as a 150+158, but clearly without the operational/safety margin that allows it to be used normally.

a max of 4x20m vehicles or 3x23m vehicles can be accommodated, it is indeed a pain in the rear end when a 158/150 combo ends up on the Exmouth as local door operation required at St James Park and Lympstone Commando

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Feb 2022 ==

I remember one of the platforms was short so only the front door could be opened. So you think they might actually lose more revenue than they would gain if they called there?

What I'll say is ticket checks on SWR West of Salisbury are virtually non existent and St James Park is within easy walking distance of the City centre and has no barriers!

 

[Class800]

What I'll say is ticket checks on SWR West of Salisbury are virtually non existent and St James Park is within easy walking distance of the City centre and has no barriers!

I don't agree - there are checks on almost every journey I am on between Cranbrook and Salisbury, often near Honiton

 

[Ashley Hill]

a max of 4x20m vehicles or 3x23m vehicles can be accommodated, it is indeed a pain in the rear end when a 158/150 combo ends up on the Exmouth as local door operation required at St James Park and Lympstone Commando

I can never understand why they were not extended beyond a four car 150,to me it just seems really short sighted. It just seems that the bare minimum was done at the least expense.

 

[RPI]

I can never understand why they were not extended beyond a four car 150,to me it just seems really short sighted. It just seems that the bare minimum was done at the least expense.

Yes I quite agree, especially as there are plans for more turbos going west where a 4 car 165 wouldn't be impossible

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Feb 2022 ==

I don't agree - there are checks on almost every journey I am on between Cranbrook and Salisbury, often near Honiton

I travel 5 days a week Honiton to Exeter St Davids and I'd say my pass is checked perhaps once a week on the way into Exeter (the only exception being on the first one down in the morning if I'm on earlies when I'm checked probably 50/50), I cannot remember the last time I was checked on the Exeter to Honiton leg.

 

[Grecian 1998]

A 158 / 150 combo at St James Park appears comfortable if the 158 is at the front, given the door positions on 150s. Bit more problematic if the 158 is at the rear and it would be somewhat complicated if there were different rules based on the formation. 158s are hardly ideal on Exmouth - Paignton services anyway, although I assume GWR try to avoid using them on that route where possible.

There were halts at Whipton Bridge and Mount Pleasant which closed in the 1920s. I'd guess therefore that trains from the east stopped serving St James Park around that time. I'm pretty certain that nothing has called there from the Honiton direction since at least the 1960s in any case.

 

[Class800]

Yes I quite agree, especially as there are plans for more turbos going west where a 4 car 165 wouldn't be impossible

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Feb 2022 ==


I travel 5 days a week Honiton to Exeter St Davids and I'd say my pass is checked perhaps once a week on the way into Exeter (the only exception being on the first one down in the morning if I'm on earlies when I'm checked probably 50/50), I cannot remember the last time I was checked on the Exeter to Honiton leg.

You travel more than me so your experience seems more relevant than mine, but I do use the line every month at least one, sometimes twice - and it seems Cranbrook to Exeter I've had an inspection only once, but near Honiton often.

 

[superalbs]

Yes I quite agree, especially as there are plans for more turbos going west where a 4 car 165 wouldn't be impossible

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Feb 2022 ==


I travel 5 days a week Honiton to Exeter St Davids and I'd say my pass is checked perhaps once a week on the way into Exeter (the only exception being on the first one down in the morning if I'm on earlies when I'm checked probably 50/50), I cannot remember the last time I was checked on the Exeter to Honiton leg.

I travel Pinhoe to Exeter Central often, and surprisingly it has been checked a few times before, but it is few and far between. All my checks are usually on longer journeys.

 

[RPI]

You travel more than me so your experience seems more relevant than mine, but I do use the line every month at least one, sometimes twice - and it seems Cranbrook to Exeter I've had an inspection only once, but near Honiton often.

What i have noticed is that the Yeovil Junction guards are somewhat keener than the Salisbury guards!

 

[Class800]

Would agree with that - the inspections tend to be between Whimple and Yeovil J. - never in the Salisbury area. Maybe occasionally near Basingstoke

 

[HamworthyGoods]

What i have noticed is that the Yeovil Junction guards are somewhat keener than the Salisbury guards!

A newish, small depot keen to make their mark!!

 

[fgwrich]

What I'll say is ticket checks on SWR West of Salisbury are virtually non existent and St James Park is within easy walking distance of the City centre and has no barriers!

Your St James Park sounds very similar to our Reading West and Newbury Racecourse. At least one of those is finally receiving barriers, though there's still Tilehurst and Earley...

If these two services turn out to be something of a success, within the capabilities of the current infrastructure, is there anymore scope for a more regular Exeter > Honition service? (of course it would be good to see some of the future proposals for the upgrading of the 'mule' eventually come to fruition).

 

[RPI]

Your St James Park sounds very similar to our Reading West and Newbury Racecourse. At least one of those is finally receiving barriers, though there's still Tilehurst and Earley...

If these two services turn out to be something of a success, within the capabilities of the current infrastructure, is there anymore scope for a more regular Exeter > Honition service? (of course it would be good to see some of the future proposals for the upgrading of the 'mule' eventually come to fruition).

Very similar to Reading West, St James Park is basically adjacent to one end of the city centre!

As for your second post - and the mods may wish to split the thread at this point, but controversially I'd say that with the current infrastructure, I would prefer a two hourly Waterloo to Exeter service which runs fast Honiton to Exeter Central, with a two hourly Waterloo to Yeovil Junction service (hourly then to Yeovil Junction) with an hourly GWR service from Yeovil Junction to Exeter stopping all stations, resulting in three trains every two hours between Yeovil and Exeter. This could just about work with a bit of jigging and making more use of the passing loop at Honiton. Obviously more double track would be ideal to then have hourly Waterloo services and an hourly GWR stopper

 

[Class800]

As this thread has meandered around several topics, I will leave it to mods to decide if we need to split, rather than starting my own thread, as what I want to say relates to earlier posts. I think there are several potential threads that could come from this - future West of England line service patterns, whether ECS running should be permitted except in the case of breakdown as the railway is crowded.

But what I want to say - going back to post #1 is that the reintroduction of the 17.46 service should to something help address capacity issues in peak time out of Exeter to local stations, although arguably it was the earlier former SWR shuttle service that is more impactful, as there is a 17.25 from Exeter St Davids to Waterloo - and it is this train that has become very heavily loaded on the times I have used it since the removal of the preceding shuttle. The shuttle 20 minutes later would relieve the 18.25, which is slightly after core office hours. So, the 17.46 might not have been the correct one of the two ex shuttles to reinstate, but it will help to some extent, and get some people home earlier if they cannot make the 17.25. I believe this is part of the Devon Metro plan.

Overall the concept of some GWR services to Axminster is not a bad idea. Focusing on this 17.46 service, for it to be successful, it would have to be ensured that there are no ticketing issues that would prevent passengers from taking the next service to Axminster regardless of whether it is SWR or GWR. SWR have a Key smartcard season ticket - it would need to be ensured this is able to be used on GWR, as many commuters will be using this.

 

[Grecian 1998]

The 1746 will be visible in the journey planner so it is likely some passengers will target it. Particularly useful for anyone who would otherwise work until 1730 but has to tweak their plans at the moment to avoid twiddling their thumbs for nearly an hour.

There is no likelihood of anything more than sporadic GWR services without additional double track. The West of England 2020 line study can be seen here:

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/West-of-England-Study-Continuous-Modular-Strategic-Planning.pdf

It is apparent that NR consider more loops are needed, both for service reliability and for service expansion. Additional Axminster- Exeter services do appear to be a high priority. The details of the proposals start at p73.

Of course, identifying a problem and finding funding for resolving it, particularly in the current climate, are two rather different issues.

 

[davetheguard]

What i have noticed is that the Yeovil Junction guards are somewhat keener than the Salisbury guards!

A newish, small depot keen to make their mark!!

That's interesting, I hadn't realised that South Western now had a depot at Yeovil Junction. Is it just Guards or are there Drivers booking on there too?

How new is "newish" and how small is "small"? Thanks in advance for any info.

 

[swt_passenger]

If these two services turn out to be something of a success, within the capabilities of the current infrastructure, is there anymore scope for a more regular Exeter > Honition service? (of course it would be good to see some of the future proposals for the upgrading of the 'mule' eventually come to fruition).

I think on the current infrastructure a 2 hourly service as far as Honiton is all that’s possible, but not to Axminster. It’s considered in one of the earlier route studies or strategies published a few years ago, I think the report linked in post #52 by @Grecian 1998 is good at explaining interventions required but sort of skips over exactly what is currently achievable.

 

[pompeyfan]

That's interesting, I hadn't realised that South Western now had a depot at Yeovil Junction. Is it just Guards or are there Drivers booking on there too?

How new is "newish" and how small is "small"? Thanks in advance for any info.

Been in situ for about 3 years. Off the top of my head there’s only 7 duties a day per grade, one of which is the night Exeter job. Both drivers and guards.

Route knowledge Exeter - Waterloo and Yeovil - Westbury - Salisbury.

They don’t sign test Valley, Southampton or Winchester.

 

[swt_passenger]

That's interesting, I hadn't realised that South Western now had a depot at Yeovil Junction. Is it just Guards or are there Drivers booking on there too?

How new is "newish" and how small is "small"? Thanks in advance for any info.

I did a quick search of the jobs forum, and I found a mention of 14 guards required, I’d suppose drivers would be similar numbers? The info is spread about loads of separate threads though…

 

[Watershed]

Been in situ for about 3 years. Off the top of my head there’s only 7 duties a day per grade, one of which is the night Exeter job. Both drivers and guards.

Route knowledge Exeter - Waterloo and Yeovil - Westbury - Salisbury.

They don’t sign test Valley, Southampton or Winchester.

That suggests about 20 of each grade. Rather curious that they went for that, rather than setting up a depot in Exeter, or getting GWR to crew some services - 159s are effectively identical to 158s and I don't know if there's even a conversion course needed.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

That suggests about 20 of each grade. Rather curious that they went for that, rather than setting up a depot in Exeter, or getting GWR to crew some services - 159s are effectively identical to 158s and I don't know if there's even a conversion course needed.

There’s more trains which start and end their day in the Yeovil area than at Exeter.