GWR Strike Ballot

[Tom Quinne]

Internal rumour suggests the CCTV doesn't actually favour the RMT.

I dont know how many drivers at Pad are RMT but the majority are Aslef so the DOO services won't be affected.

Contingency guards are already trained and are frequently used on Sundays and the expectation is they'll use them where required if (when) the RMT declares Paddington is on strike.

Effects will be minimal. No Paddington TM routes arent coverable by contingency or guards from other depots.

A senior RMT rep at Padd is a driver....possibility even a full timer now.

 

[Robertj21a]

Sadly my union (RMT) are becoming an embarrassment at national level, thankfully we do have some very good local reps who are the salt of the earth.

What a terrible shame for the ordinary members who just want the RMT to do what it does best, rather than getting involved in politics or fighting over every conceivable change. The union needs these local reps to exert more pressure on the national team if they are to all have any hope of remaining credible.

 

[Tom Quinne]

Exactly, a trade union provides valuable support and advice to its members.

When people are (on occasions) rightly socking it to Union it’s an attack on all the members, we are all tarred with the same brush.

I couldn’t give two hoots about the poltical wing, I’ve expressed my wishes that my subs don’t go into that account. All I want is my union to protect me if things go wrong, and work with my employer to improve my working conditions, improve me pay in a fair way and provide legal assistance should it all go pear shaped.

Rightly or wrongly the union is obliged to assist any member who is in difficulty, I object strongly to the PR or shooting yourself in the foot press releases.

I think the leadership want to prove to the masses that they have total power, it used to be that a London Underground strike could cripple London. Now relations have improved down below, the next big dispute was the DOO one, widespread strikes where to a degrees talks could work better have destroyed the credibility no end.

 

[43096]

I can't help but feel that the fact the accused is a "union activist" has rather more to do with this than anything else in the RMT's decision making process.

 

[Gooner18]

Out of interest what determines what union you join and how much does it cost ?

Maybe guards / station staff RMT and drivers, including depot drivers ASLEF?

 

[NorthernSpirit]

The RMT now strike for absolutely anything in some futile attempt to force re-nationalisation of the railways. Brothers my arse.

Reading Twitter comments on their feed over the past few months they were often supported. Now it's increasingly becoming hateful towards them, it's turning.

I wouldn't trust the RMT.

In 2013 they supported Swansea football hooligan Andrew Davies and called for a strike on GWR. A train manager for the company (who is a member of this forum) informed me that it wasn't the done thing to vote against such matters but most people abstained from voting. But of those who did vote, a majority voted for strike action, even though it was totally unfounded.

The RMT have zero credibility and are about as untrustworthy as it's possible for any union to be. They're a disgrace to the union movement, quite frankly. Take anything they say with a pinch of salt.

Mick Cash is completely ruining the RMT and this behavour is causing more people to go against them than supporting them. I wouldn't be at all suprised if the RMT went on strike over a General Election only because the "wrong" party got in.

It has to be said, the camera never lies.

 

[JN114]

Out of interest what determines what union you join and how much does it cost ?

Maybe guards / station staff RMT and drivers, including depot drivers ASLEF?

You generally have a free choice - there are some entrance criteria (I believe for example to join ASLEF you have to be in a footplate grade) - my advice would be to speak to colleagues about it, different unions have different strengths of representation up and down the country. More members generally equals better.

Cost (subs) varies from union to union. I am TSSA and my subs are in the high teens per month.

****

In the case in question unfortunately - and I have to go off the office rumour mill to a degree - I don’t see what leg the RMT are planning on standing on. Fruitless industrial action that will only hurt themselves.

 

[alastair]

These kind of ballots are never supported well, and often bring back a unbalanced result.

The union will proclaim “rock solid support” bla bla, but in reality only a small number actually voted Yes, with the majority voting NO or not at all.

But if that were the case, then surely the strike ballot would not be effective? The current law states:




A key part of Government policy on industrial action law is that industrial action must have the clear support of those workers who are likely to be involved.

To achieve this, the law requires that there is a ballot of employees in accordance with strict legal requirements, before industrial action is called for or endorsed. Only where such a ballot produces a majority in favour of industrial action and at least 50% of those eligible to vote have voted will the action be lawful. Further in the case of important public services, at least 40% of those eligible to vote must have voted to support the action.

 

[Carlisle]

Possibly as they’re only balloting the one depot, Paddington. they’re perhaps reasonably confident of meeting the threshold

 

[tiptoptaff]

Possibly as they’re only balloting the one depot, Paddington. they’re perhaps reasonably confident of meeting the threshold

I suspect they're only balloting one depot as they know they won't get unilateral support

 

[Tom Quinne]

I suspect they're only balloting one depot as they know they won't get unilateral support

They certainly wouldn’t get many or any at places like Exeter or Plymouth that’s for sure.

 

[nottsnurse]

...but in reality only a small number actually voted Yes, with the majority voting NO or not at all.

The majority voted "yes", the minority voted "no", this is all that matters if the voting threshold has been reached.

Lumping those who abstained in with the "no" voters is presumptive and skews the numbers to appear more negative.

 

[HH]

The majority voted "yes", the minority voted "no", this is all that matters if the voting threshold has been reached.

Lumping those who abstained in with the "no" voters is presumptive and skews the numbers to appear more negative.

Except that if enough don't vote it won't be a valid vote anyway. And it's certainly indicative of a lack of support.

 

[nottsnurse]

Except that if enough don't vote it won't be a valid vote anyway. And it's certainly indicative of a lack of support.

Did I stutter?

The majority voted "yes", the minority voted "no", this is all that matters if the voting threshold has been reached.

I do love it when people quote comments they seemingly didn't read.

 

[Mag_seven]

Surely there should be an industrial tribunal first before there is talk of any strike action. If GWR have not followed correct procedures then the sacked individual may have a case.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Given the rowdy behaviour of many Evesham passengers, and the generally excellent standard of the GWR staff who work the Cotswold Line, I know where my sympathies lie....

 

[RPI]

Knowing the individual involved, it surprises me no end, he's generally a very laid back chap. Working on the facts we know, the passenger didn't make a complaint and the TM was subjected to a tirade of racial abuse and spat at, GWR's own personal security policy used to clearly state a "no touch" policy in any circumstance, it was pointed out that by having this policy they effectively weren't allowing anyone to defend themselves and was changed in the latest version and we were briefed that it's a last resort and if a pre-emptive strike is used then you would have to be able to justify it to a magistrate (this was the most common sense scenario that our trainer could come up with) and that any defensive or pre-emptive strike must only be to allow you to escape, ie you're in a situation where you can't hide or run so you then hit in order to give you opportunity to hide or run.
If the TM acted within those rules then the strike is warranted, truth is none of us were there or have seen the CCTV but the RMT has literally become the boy who cried wolf and soon there will be a serious dispute and no one will support them.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Given the rowdy behaviour of many Evesham passengers, and the generally excellent standard of the GWR staff who work the Cotswold Line, I know where my sympathies lie....

Can I just qualify that with “but not some of the bolshy trolley staff”?

 

[theironroad]

Surely there should be an industrial tribunal first before there is talk of any strike action. If GWR have not followed correct procedures then the sacked individual may have a case.

There are some on here who seem to think that a strike ballot is the very first line of action. Its not. This has probably been rumbling on for months with multiple internal meetings between management and the union. Its usually only when the internal procedures are exhausted that a ballot will be considered.
I'm not totally sure why it hasn't gone to a tribunal first, though possibly the cost to the RMT for legal fees may be a consideration as although calling a ballot also costs, it just the fee for the electoral reform society to run the ballot.

I'm inclined to agree that in individual worker cases like this, that the tribunal should be done first, as pulling in all members of a depot and then possibly other depots doesn't really go down well when the facts aren't clear.

 

[Wombat]

The cost of a tribunal is surely massively less than the salary foregone by strike action? I'd expect that if the RMT thinks that it has a strong case, a tribunal would be a much safer bet than hoping that the employer backs down. So in the absence of any other information I suspect that they think their case is a long way short of watertight.

That said, I'm a bit biased, as I have no trust whatsoever in anything the RMT says.

 

[tiptoptaff]

A discussion with another GWR crew member yesteday suspects that the RMT is passing the cost. If it goes to Tribunal it has to pay. If they strike, their members bear the brunt of the cost.

Outside of Paddington, there's apparently no faith in this action.

 

[Tom Quinne]

No Faith and no interest id assume.
The old long standing West /High Speed divide still going strong ?

 

[tiptoptaff]

No Faith and no interest id assume.
The old long standing West /High Speed divide still going strong ?

Aye, but this was a HSS guard (that I was speaking to)

 

[northwichcat]

The RMT have a habit of not telling the full story on their website when it comes to trying to drum up support.

There's a couple of bits of important missing information. One being how the dispute between the passenger and the guard started, it states what the passenger did but doesn't confirm the guard did not do anything unreasonable prior to that. The second being whether the guard is being investigated by the police - the story only confirms the guard tried to report the passenger to BTP and not whether the GWR dismissal came about because of a complaint by the passenger to GWR or because BTP thought the guard wasn't the real victim.

 

[tiptoptaff]

There's a couple of bits of important missing information. One being how the dispute between the passenger and the guard started, it states what the passenger did but doesn't confirm the guard did not do anything unreasonable prior to that. The second being whether the guard is being investigated by the police - the story only confirms the guard tried to report the passenger to BTP and not whether the GWR dismissal came about because of a complaint by the passenger to GWR or because BTP thought the guard wasn't the real victim.

This is the issue. RMT won't give out the full story as it probably won't suit them.

GWR can't give full details as internal disciplinary proceedings are confidential.

So what you end up with is half a story. Quarter from the RMT, a quarter from GWR and the important half is missing

 

[LowLevel]

Following his appeal hearing where he was represented by the RMT senior assistant general secretary Steve Hedley, Ben has been reinstated to his position as train manager.

 

[Meerkat]

I guess we will never know if he was unjustly accused, or unjustly let off due to union pressure.

 

[father_jack]

Following his appeal hearing where he was represented by the RMT senior assistant general secretary Steve Hedley, Ben has been reinstated to his position as train manager.

Incorrect. He's a buffet steward now......

 

[LowLevel]

Incorrect. He's a buffet steward now......

They missed that bit off when they said he was reinstated then

 

[father_jack]

They missed that bit off when they said he was reinstated then

And the facebook comment that told the real story has been censored