Gwr - Reported for prosecution

[MK1234]

Hi all,

My friend and I were travelling for a day out of London. He had a National railcard, allowing him to get discounts and he presented his railcard when I bought my return ticket and I benefitted from his discount.

The journey outside London went well, uneventful. But then I decided to get back to London earlier on my own, as he wanted to stay there a bit later. On the way back, one of the revenue check people asked to see my railcard as he noticed my discounted return ticket. I said I lost it, panicking and thinking he'll leave me alone (I didn't think it was a big deal as I wasn't aware at the time that it was illegal for my friend to use his railcard to buy my ticket, I don't travel out of London much via train).

The revenue check person then said if I can prove I have a railcard, I don't need to pay a fine and gave me a 'reported for prosecution' note. I've been reading up about it now, and the horror stories about potentially ending up having to appear in court and getting a criminal record are terrifying me.

I now have bought a railcard, but obviously it has today's date on it.

I am waiting for the GWR letter to come through, but I am worried now that this will get complicated as they are expecting me to prove I had a valid railcard on that date. Please help! Any advice would be most welcome.

Thank you.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Unfortunately as you now know you didn't have a valid ticket when you made your return journey. I'm guessing your friend had a Network Railcard which requires all passengers to travel together to benefit from the discount. Thankfully GWR are one of the more pragmatic companies when it comes to dealing with this sort of thing. Sadly the railcard you purchased won't be accepted as they will be able to find out exactly what time it was purchased and that this was after you were challenged.

What will happen next is that GWR will write to you saying that they have received a report and asking for your version of events before they decide how to proceed. It's impoortant that you reply to this letter promptly. I suggest writing a short, concise letter explaning what happened. You might also want to mention the following points in your letter:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter
- It won't hurt to mention that you have purchased a railcard and send them a copy with your reply

GWR are normally willing to settle cases like this out of court, although they are within their rights to prosecute in the Magistrates Court should they wise to do so. An out of court settlement typically costs around £150 plus the outstanding fare. While an out of court settlement might feel like a fine technically it isn't, only a court can impose a fine as a punishment upon conviction, and you won't have a criminal record as a result of paying one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter from GWR in this thread along with your draft reply and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you but do make sure you redact any personal information before doing so.

 

[MK1234]

Welcome to the forum!

Unfortunately as you now know you didn't have a valid ticket when you made your return journey. I'm guessing your friend had a Network Railcard which requires all passengers to travel together to benefit from the discount. Thankfully GWR are one of the more pragmatic companies when it comes to dealing with this sort of thing. Sadly the railcard you purchased won't be accepted as they will be able to find out exactly what time it was purchased and that this was after you were challenged.

What will happen next is that GWR will write to you saying that they have received a report and asking for your version of events before they decide how to proceed. It's impoortant that you reply to this letter promptly. I suggest writing a short, concise letter explaning what happened. You might also want to mention the following points in your letter:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter
- It won't hurt to mention that you have purchased a railcard and send them a copy with your reply

GWR are normally willing to settle cases like this out of court, although they are within their rights to prosecute in the Magistrates Court should they wise to do so. An out of court settlement typically costs around £150 plus the outstanding fare. While an out of court settlement might feel like a fine technically it isn't, only a court can impose a fine as a punishment upon conviction, and you won't have a criminal record as a result of paying one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter from GWR in this thread along with your draft reply and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you but do make sure you redact any personal information before doing so.

Thank you, that's very helpful.

In my response to GWR letter, do I mention my friend's railcard? What I said to the check person is that I lost my railcard. Will changing the story now play against me?

 

[skyhigh]

What I said to the check person is that I lost my railcard. Will changing the story now play against me?

You need to be truthful in your reply.

 

[MK1234]

You need to be truthful in your reply.

Thank you

 

[Hadders]

Thank you, that's very helpful.

In my response to GWR letter, do I mention my friend's railcard? What I said to the check person is that I lost my railcard. Will changing the story now play against me?

It's important that you answer the questions they ask you in the letter. You're not required to incriminate yourself - this is why it's helpful for us to see the letter to see exactly what they ask you.

I would tell them you travelled to and around London with a friend who held a railcard which also allowed you benefit from the discount
You decided to return separately.
You now realise this was wrong because it made your ticket invalid
You made an error of judgement and told the inspector you had forgotten the railcard, even though you don't possess one
You purchased a railcard for yourself so that you are not in this position again

 

[Haywain]

you travelled to and around London with a friend who held a railcard which also allowed you benefit from the discount

That is not my interpretation of what happened - it is more that the friend had a railcard (16-25, perhaps?) and used it to buy a second ticket.

 

[MK1234]

That is not my interpretation of what happened - it is more that the friend had a railcard (16-25, perhaps?) and used it to buy a second ticket.

No, my friend had a 'normal' National Railcard.

 

[Haywain]

No, my friend had a 'normal' National Railcard.

Which railcard? A 16-25 Railcard is considered normal by most people.

 

[MK1234]

Which railcard? A 16-25 Railcard is considered normal by most people.

Adult National Railcard

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Nov 2023 ==

It's important that you answer the questions they ask you in the letter. You're not required to incriminate yourself - this is why it's helpful for us to see the letter to see exactly what they ask you.

I would tell them you travelled to and around London with a friend who held a railcard which also allowed you benefit from the discount
You decided to return separately.
You now realise this was wrong because it made your ticket invalid
You made an error of judgement and told the inspector you had forgotten the railcard, even though you don't possess one
You purchased a railcard for yourself so that you are not in this position again

Thank you, that's helpful

 

[gabrielhj07]

Adult National Railcard

A Network Railcard perhaps?

 

[maniacmartin]

I am guessing from the opening post that it is a "Network Railcard". If so, it does allow your friend to buy a ticket for you, but you must travel with your friend (and with their railcard). See section 4.5 of the T&Cs.

4.5. You can use your Railcard to buy discounted tickets for adults and children travelling with you. The maximum group size is four adults (aged 16 years and over) including you, and four children aged between 5 and 15 years. The group must travel with you throughout the journey.

I've always thought this arrangement is a bit flawed as there is nothing to prevent the railcard holder from abandoning you or losing their railcard, which could cause you to suddenly be travelling without a valid ticket, possibly through no fault of your own.

I would recommend following Hadders' advice and try to get GWR to agree to an out of court financial settlement. If you were genuinely unaware that you had to return together, state that it was a misunderstanding on your part, and that you've since purchased your own railcard so it doesn't happen again.

 

[MK1234]

A Network Railcard perhaps?

Yes, that's the one

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Nov 2023 ==

I am guessing from the opening post that it is a "Network Railcard". If so, it does allow your friend to buy a ticket for you, but you must travel with your friend (and with their railcard). See section 4.5 of the T&Cs.

I've always thought this arrangement is a bit flawed as there is nothing to prevent the railcard holder from abandoning you or losing their railcard, which could cause you to suddenly be travelling without a valid ticket, possibly through no fault of your own.

I would recommend following Hadders' advice and try to get GWR to agree to an out of court financial settlement. If you were genuinely unaware that you had to return together, state that it was a misunderstanding on your part, and that you've since purchased your own railcard so it doesn't happen again.

I shall do that, thank you.

I am concerned about me saying to the inspector that I had lost my railcard is going to be am issue though. But I guess there's nothing I can do about it now, other than apologise for the panick and lack of judgement.

 

[30907]

I am concerned about me saying to the inspector that I had lost my railcard is going to be am issue though. But I guess there's nothing I can do about it now, other than apologise for the panick and lack of judgement.

From the evidence of this forum, train companies don't worry overmuch about what you say when challenged, so long as you give the correct information later.

 

[MK1234]

From the evidence of this forum, train companies don't worry overmuch about what you say when challenged, so long as you give the correct information later.

That's reassuring, thank you

 

[MK1234]

Hi all - I'm still waiting for the letter from GWR, it's going on 3 weeks now. I've contacted them and they said they haven't received the report yet at the prosecution department. Does anyone know approx time it takes?

Thanks

 

[Hadders]

I'd expect it to take a but longer. 1-2 months is typical although depending in their workload it can be longer.

 

[MK1234]

Hi all - still waiting for the letter. I've emailed the Prosecution Dept today and they said they haven't received anything yet. Seems like one that's gonna carry forward to the NY!

 

[island]

They have up to 6 months to process the report; I’m afraid it takes as long as it takes.