GWR Pre-Court Settlement 2 Years Later + Childs Ticket

[billybigboy3]

Hello,

In April 2024, I was caught by a revenue protection inspector using a child's ticket when it said I was 18 on my ID. I have now, December 2025, been sent a settlement offer for £500-999. This settlement offer is supposedly the difference between the tickets I bought and the anytime fare + £90 adminstration fee - they have also sent me a list of all instances of me buying a child's ticket. Since April 2024, I have bought several 16-25 rail passes and I have not bought a child's ticket on my account.

I was wondering if I should respond with a counter offer, not respond or pay in full? In a similar post, the most common recommendation was not to respond - what is the likelihood of them persuing action in court? Are there any examples of people being taken to court over this?

Thank you so much for any response.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello,

In April 2024, I was caught by a revenue protection inspector using a child's ticket when it said I was 18 on my ID. I have now, December 2025, been sent a settlement offer for £500-999. This settlement offer is supposedly the difference between the tickets I bought and the anytime fare + £90 adminstration fee - they have also sent me a list of all instances of me buying a child's ticket. Since April 2024, I have bought several 16-25 rail passes and I have not bought a child's ticket on my account.

I was wondering if I should respond with a counter offer, not respond or pay in full? In a similar post, the most common recommendation was not to respond - what is the likelihood of them persuing action in court? Are there any examples of people being taken to court over this?

Thank you so much for any response.

Which railway company are you dealing with? GWR

The cases I think you are referring to where the advice is given not to respond involve people who they suspect have evaded fares from digital trawling records like on line ticket buying and scans of tickets used at barriers etc. But involve people who have never been caught evading / having the wrong ticket.

But you gave been caught.

Your case might be more like this albeit without much doubt about the evasion element assuming you deliberately bought child rate tickets after turning 16.

Apols as it’s a long thread with lots not similar to your case so there may be better examples

GWR Pre-settlement offer

Hi all, Looking for advice here. I have been given a £1100 pre-settlement offer by GWR for a journey on 4 May 2024; deadline in 21 days. I had purchased 2 tickets, one for me with no railcard, one for my younger family friend with a 16-17 railcard. When the inspector asked for my ticket, I...

www.railforums.co.uk

Are you effectively being threatened with a claim for the money as a civil debt? As opposed to a criminal prosecution for fare evasion?

 

[billybigboy3]

They say if they do not receive payment at a specified near date they might instigate further legal action to recover the money due. This could involve action through the criminal courts or as a Civil Money Claim.

 

[WesternLancer]

GWR seem to have started the civil court route for historic evasion debts relatively recently given a few threads have started on it over the last few months.

But I don’t think we have seen any cases where the person threatened has let it go to court / challenged it in court / ignored it to see what happens if that’s done.

GWR have certainly stated firmly they will pursue such historic cases in court. Don’t think we know yet if they actually have. But unless a person came here for help it would need someone to notice court cases to know.

For cases less than six months old where criminal court prosecutions can be easily brought this happens frequently if people don’t engage and seek to settle out of court for the sum demanded. But that’s different scenario to yours aiui.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Dec 2025 ==

They say if they do not receive payment at a specified near date they might instigate further legal action to recover the money due. This could involve action through the criminal courts or as a Civil Money Claim.

They are saying that to others too.

Keep an eye on your thread for a few days before sending them any reply as people here will no doubt tell you your options so you can weigh up what you wish to do in an informed manner.

 

[billybigboy3]

Thank you for your help and will share any updates on this thread.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you for your help and will share any updates on this thread.

You have to wonder why the railway didn’t get their act together to threaten you with criminal prosecution within 6 months of catching you evading. That would have been a simple way to get fares evaded out of you under threat of a court fine, criminal record etc.

Of course, increasing use of online tickets and Aztec scannable codes on tickets makes it much easier to follow the digital fingerprints to find historic evasion. In the past, they couldn’t easily prove that unless people admitted to it voluntarily.

 

[z444z]

Hello,

In April 2024, I was caught by a revenue protection inspector using a child's ticket when it said I was 18 on my ID. I have now, December 2025, been sent a settlement offer for £500-999. This settlement offer is supposedly the difference between the tickets I bought and the anytime fare + £90 adminstration fee - they have also sent me a list of all instances of me buying a child's ticket. Since April 2024, I have bought several 16-25 rail passes and I have not bought a child's ticket on my account.

I was wondering if I should respond with a counter offer, not respond or pay in full? In a similar post, the most common recommendation was not to respond - what is the likelihood of them persuing action in court? Are there any examples of people being taken to court over this?

Thank you so much for any response.

One key difference with the other thread that you replied to earlier is that they claimed other child tickets on their account were bought for a sibling. Whether or not that’s true, if they were willing to give that in evidence in a civil claim, it at least means there’s a chance that the court would find it true on the balance of probabilities. You don’t give any such explanation (nor should you unless it’s true) which means GWR are assuming all previous child tickets are yours, and it’s likely a court would too.

If GWR went down the civil claim route, a £90 admin fee is right around the figure they could expect to be able to reclaim. Whether or not they have any basis for recovering their costs at this point isn’t entirely clear but from the forum’s recent experience arguing this point with GWR will get you nowhere. The main difference in civil court is that they can only recover their actual loss, and so (as far as I know) wouldn’t get away with charging Anytime fares for off-peak journeys where the journey was likely undertaken off-peak. How significant this is depends on the fares available for the journeys you made - you can check this yourself, or if you want to share which stations you travelled between most and at what times we can advise.

So it’s possible that the settlement offer isn’t significantly more money than a court would award, and if that’s the case paying might be the easiest way to make this all go away.

But that’s assuming GWR will take this to court, which they might not bother doing.

Others will weigh in later I’m sure - definitely hold off on making any decisions until more people have given you their advice!

 

[billybigboy3]

One key difference with the other thread that you replied to earlier is that they claimed other child tickets on their account were bought for a sibling. Whether or not that’s true, if they were willing to give that in evidence in a civil claim, it at least means there’s a chance that the court would find it true on the balance of probabilities. You don’t give any such explanation (nor should you unless it’s true) which means GWR are assuming all previous child tickets are yours, and it’s likely a court would too.

If GWR went down the civil claim route, a £90 admin fee is right around the figure they could expect to be able to reclaim. Whether or not they have any basis for recovering their costs at this point isn’t entirely clear but from the forum’s recent experience arguing this point with GWR will get you nowhere. The main difference in civil court is that they can only recover their actual loss, and so (as far as I know) wouldn’t get away with charging Anytime fares for off-peak journeys where the journey was likely undertaken off-peak. How significant this is depends on the fares available for the journeys you made - you can check this yourself, or if you want to share which stations you travelled between most and at what times we can advise.

So it’s possible that the settlement offer isn’t significantly more money than a court would award, and if that’s the case paying might be the easiest way to make this all go away.

But that’s assuming GWR will take this to court, which they might not bother doing.

Others will weigh in later I’m sure - definitely hold off on making any decisions until more people have given you their advice!

Almost all the child tickets I bought were Off-peak Day Singles while commuting so I think I am probably being overcharged a significant amount (Sorry for being vague but worried about being identified).

I think the main question for everyone who has been sent letters recently about this is whether GWR are trying to recuperate money by threating to persue all cases they have previously dropped or they are seriously trying a new legal tactic to get their money back. I have researched this a fair amount tonight and not seen any examples of anyone actually taken to court in this circumstance but then again this is a new type of case for GWR?

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Almost all the child tickets I bought were Off-peak Day Singles while commuting so I think I am probably being overcharged a significant amount (Sorry for being vague but worried about being identified).

I think the main question for everyone who has been sent letters recently about this is whether GWR are trying to recuperate money by threating to persue all cases they have previously dropped or they are seriously trying a new legal tactic to get their money back. I have researched this a fair amount tonight and not seen any examples of anyone actually taken to court in this circumstance but then again this is a new type of case for GWR?

In what way do you believe you were overcharged?

NRCoT state you would be required to pay the 'Full, undiscounted fare' which is the Anytime Day Single rate.

This is a fairly new tactic, however we have seen that GWR have fallen way behind on dealing with cases, regularly falling foul of the 6 months for bringing a criminal charge. This is what seems to have led to them going via the civil claim route.

Be very aware, this is not just a threat. It is something they clearly are interested in pursuing.

 

[WesternLancer]

Almost all the child tickets I bought were Off-peak Day Singles while commuting so I think I am probably being overcharged a significant amount (Sorry for being vague but worried about being identified).

I think the main question for everyone who has been sent letters recently about this is whether GWR are trying to recuperate money by threating to persue all cases they have previously dropped or they are seriously trying a new legal tactic to get their money back. I have researched this a fair amount tonight and not seen any examples of anyone actually taken to court in this circumstance but then again this is a new type of case for GWR?

As you’ve probably seen in other threads where lots of travel is involved the train company will usually send people a breakdown list. That allows you to understand the details of the sum they have reached.
In some cases people have shared the lists. Typically includes info about peak or off peak tickets etc.

Of course you’d have to start engaging with GWR to get such a list to review and I suspect that’s the first decision you will have to weigh up.

Hopefully advice here will help you consider options.

There are also a few specialist rail fare evasion solicitors who can help people but their services do require payment for which depending on what’s at stake may not represent value compared with the sums demanded. We do see people facing criminal prosecution using them occasionally.

 

[z444z]

NRCoT state you would be required to pay the 'Full, undiscounted fare' which is the Anytime Day Single rate.

It is far from clear that this would stand up in court - 9.2 NRCoT (below) relates to being unable to present a valid ticket upon request, which has not happened for all but one of the fares the OP is being charged for. Other than enforcing contractual terms - and they would struggle to convince the court that 9.2 applies to all of these fares - GWR will only be allowed to recover their actual loss, which the Anytime fare is not reflective of.

If you are unable to present a valid Ticket (including supporting documentation as outlined at Condition 9.1) when asked to do so and the conditions set out in Condition 6 do not apply, the Train Companies are permitted under these Conditions and in accoradance with law to take one or more of the following measures:

To charge the full undiscounted single fare to a station directly served by the train that you are on. You will not be entitled to any discounts or special terms, or to buy a Ticket to a station other than one served by the train that you are on

Irrelevant but just noticed “accoradance” in the NRCoT………

 

[fandroid]

On the face of it, the risks associated with going all the way to a civil court hearing are not that great. At worst you'd have to pay GWR what they're asking, at best you could get their demands significantly reduced. That's assuming that you do it yourself (with help from here) and don't pay for a solicitor. The real cost would be time and effort.

 

[30907]

Have I got this right?

Prior to April 2024 you purchased a number of tickets at Child rate when you were over 16, so over a 2-year period.
Since then you have bought "several 16-25 passes" - do you mean a 16-25 Railcard (or two), or have you been claiming Railcard discount without having the card?

Have GWR mis-identified and journeys? If so, you can legitimately challenge that and they will normally withdraw.

In a civil claim they will arguably only be awarded the difference in fares, so you could consider offering that plus their reasonable costs.

 

[Badgerer]

On the face of it, the risks associated with going all the way to a civil court hearing are not that great. At worst you'd have to pay GWR what they're asking, at best you could get their demands significantly reduced. That's assuming that you do it yourself (with help from here) and don't pay for a solicitor. The real cost would be time and effort.

Isn't a judgement (even through the small claims track) still a County Court Judgement? If it is then there can be consequences that would affect the OP as a result of it appearing on their credit history. Credit history goes back six years, so the impact could last until 2031. Even if the OP doesn't need credit now, it can affect credit applications, mortgages, even tenancies, some job applications. Being able to immediately settle the case for a modest payment may not be quite as easy a resolution as it seems?

 

[Tetchytyke]

The risks of taking it to the County Court are less than taking it to a criminal court. The County Court tend to take a more literal view of the losses incurred by the TOC, defining them as the difference between the amount you paid and the amount you would have paid if you had bought the correct ticket. They also will struggle to add any contingent costs, such as admin charges, to the amount they claim, unless they can demonstrate that those charges are an extra cost they incurred beyond their usual cost of doing business (i.e. the revenue staff would be there anyway, so you can't recharge them).

On top of what you owe them, there would be a legal fee of about £90 and a filing fee. If you defend the case, there would also be a trial fee. These would be paid by the claimant GWR, but if you lose then they are added to the debt.

If you do lose, if you pay the amount in full within 28 days then you can apply to have any registration of a CCJ cancelled, so you wouldn't even have the negative effects of a CCJ. If you can't pay in full then you can negotiate instalments.

 

[AlterEgo]

Isn't a judgement (even through the small claims track) still a County Court Judgement? If it is then there can be consequences that would affect the OP as a result of it appearing on their credit history. Credit history goes back six years, so the impact could last until 2031. Even if the OP doesn't need credit now, it can affect credit applications, mortgages, even tenancies, some job applications. Being able to immediately settle the case for a modest payment may not be quite as easy a resolution as it seems?

You don't get a CCJ if you satisfy the debt within 28 days.

 

[WesternLancer]

Almost all the child tickets I bought were Off-peak Day Singles while commuting so I think I am probably being overcharged a significant amount (Sorry for being vague but worried about being identified).

I think the main question for everyone who has been sent letters recently about this is whether GWR are trying to recuperate money by threating to persue all cases they have previously dropped or they are seriously trying a new legal tactic to get their money back. I have researched this a fair amount tonight and not seen any examples of anyone actually taken to court in this circumstance but then again this is a new type of case for GWR?

Reflecting on these cases where civil action is threatened.

As mentioned it’s a new strategy I think. So we’ve not heard about cases that got to civil court action on here. So hard to know if any at all have as yet.

But
I would assume it’s not an empty threat. If civil court action is straightforward to take why wouldn’t they do it? After all the team concerned presumably exist simply to obtain money and take court action.

So the choice seems to me to be

Either engage with them, at least by asking them for a list of evasion they believe relates to you but in such a way you don’t admit to any at this stage, and see what they provide you with

Or

Ignore it and see if in due course civil court action against you commences. Then deal with that if it arises. From what people say it doesn’t sound like allowing that to happen would really result in you having to pay them more.

Others on here with expertise in court action like this might be able to explain any downsides to either of these choices.

More generally:

Further to this it seems to me they have more incentive to pursue this in the civil court than to bring prosecutions in the criminal court. That’s because in the criminal court the railway doesn’t get the money from the court fines as they are fines that go to the court (which is why the railway is often prepared to settle those out of court because such settlement payments DO go to the railway). From what we see on here the cases that go to the criminal court where they still are in time within the 6 month period from the evasion do so because their either have aggravating factors eg been caught before and repeated to evade, or have been verbally or physically aggressive to staff, or have failed to engage, put head int he sand and hoped it would all go away / failed to understand that if they ignored the threats of court action eventually it would just escalate to court and in the fullness of time the bailiffs would arrive at the door / attachment of earnings order would be put in place etc etc. But broadly speaking the railway companies seem to prefer to settle out of court with the exception of Transport for London who don't do that as a matter of policy.

 

[anonymousdxb]

Hello,

In April 2024, I was caught by a revenue protection inspector using a child's ticket when it said I was 18 on my ID. I have now, December 2025, been sent a settlement offer for £500-999. This settlement offer is supposedly the difference between the tickets I bought and the anytime fare + £90 adminstration fee - they have also sent me a list of all instances of me buying a child's ticket. Since April 2024, I have bought several 16-25 rail passes and I have not bought a child's ticket on my account.

I was wondering if I should respond with a counter offer, not respond or pay in full? In a similar post, the most common recommendation was not to respond - what is the likelihood of them persuing action in court? Are there any examples of people being taken to court over this?

Thank you so much for any response.

Hi @billybigboy3,

I am the unfortunate owner of the other thread. This forum is full of clever people who will try to help you. On a personal note, I do not judge you. I have conducted some informal surveys with the people in my life (who are sadly all grown-ups, affluent and highly educated), and it seems like nearly everyone has fare dodged at least once for a variety of reasons, and I do not personally believe they are all bad people. I don't know your circumstances and what led you to this decision, but you haven't killed anyone, so try not to beat yourself up too much (if you are). In terms of practical advice:

1) Please continue to buy the correct tickets and railcards. Given the TOCs exploitative and borderline illegal behaviour, and that you are on their radar, you could end up in this mess again in years to come. I don't care very much about the morality of fare dodging, BUT the cost-benefit analysis of fare-dodging is far worse than I had ever imagined due to the above reasons. Therefore, don't do it, for your own sake. Or, at the very least, don't do it on a digital platform. You can buy tickets at the station with cash or something: the digital footprint is ever more powerful than I had imagined.

2) I think you are right to be cautious about being identified. I was previously of the impression that GWR employees had better things to be doing than trawling through this forum and trying to match people with cases, but the forum has suggested this isn't the case.

3) PLEASE engage with them. Ignoring it and hoping it goes away is a risky strategy with unpredictable outcomes (i.e. they might issue court proceedings when you would have preferred to just pay out). Engaging at least allows you to somewhat participate and influence the direction it goes.

4) As others have mentioned, criminal prosecution is off the table. So do take solace in that - it could have been way, way worse.

5) Obviously, don't lie to them. From what you've told us, I can't see a plausible alternate explanation for why there would be an under-16 travelling alone on your account. Furthermore, it sounds like they are only looking at tickets which are definitely illegitimate, so there is not much leeway to have any tickets excluded. I assume you have the dreaded Excel sheet of all of your historic illegitimate journeys. I don't know what level of risk you are comfortable with, given your career aspirations, etc. But, assuming a medium level of risk-aversion, and the other facts outlined being true, this is what I would do:

a) Be very, very sorry. Explain to them why you did it, the fact that you are young and made poor judgments, etc, etc. You are not trying to argue on a case of a plausible alternate explanation, so I would simply come clean and explain to them that you didn't realise the ramifications of your decisions on the taxpayer, etc. Also, state clearly that you are engaged and willing to negotiate this issue. They are technically obliged to engage out of court so as not to waste court time with someone who was cooperating.

b) make the legal arguments (nicely) in the other thread (the ones regarding the unfair use of the Anytime Single Fare, the fact that they cannot claim on behalf of other TOCs, the admin fee etc.) You will undoubtedly have to make these points multiple times and watch them flounder, refuse to engage, invent case law, etc. Restate your points with increasing certainty throughout the correspondence (without being rude).

c) Based on the legal arguments above, make them a series of counteroffers, increasing in value as the correspondence goes on. E.g. a counteroffer which calculates the correct fare prices not Anytime Singles, and/or which doesn't include tickets with other TOCs. This may not work (as it didn't in my case), but I've seen it work in another case. And in any case, it's worth a shot and there is not really a downside. I don't think they will pursue any type of court action until they believe you are not engaging or not willing to pay anything at all. Even after they issue proceedings, you can always issue a Part 36 offer for the total disputed amount, which would likely make them withdraw proceedings.

d) If you are willing to go to court, add up the costs, risks and time associated with paying the settlement offer as it is vs going to court. There is some rough maths on this at the end of my thread, which might help you, as well as this link. Court action sounds terrifying, but the costs are not high for this type of claim, so you could theoretically save a fair bit of money (I don't know for sure since I don't know all the details of your case). But, do consider the impacts this might have on your mental health, time, future career, etc. I would have done it but for the potential saving not being sufficient to justify the time cost, and the nature of my chosen career. If the maths adds up, do the above and stick it out until court action arises, which will be the final resort for both you and GWR. It is also possible that they give up before it gets to that stage. If the maths does not add up, which it may not, given your settlement is not actually that high (though it may still be very scary), then just pay whatever sum is left on the table and move on with your life. Do not let it consume you the way it consumed me. And do not spend your days reading the entirety of this forum and scrapping with strangers who may or may not be entirely fair in their comments.

Best,

 

[billybigboy3]

Hello,
Sorry for not responding for the last couple of days as I have been very busy. I have decided, like most people, it is not worth taking the risk that GWR won't bother taking me to court. So currently I am writing an email in which I ask the settlement to be in terms of off-peak singles as opposed to anytime singles. I have also attached a record of all the train journeys as I don't believe anonymity as important as before.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Dec 2025 ==

I also wanted to say thank you to everyone who has responded so far - this has been incredibly helpful to me.

 

[Watershed]

Were you indeed aged 16+ on the day of each of those journeys? If not, make that clear to GWR and they should be willing to remove them from the total.

There is, nevertheless, a very significant question mark as to whether the terms they are purporting to apply (condition 9.2.1 - retrospectively charging you for the Anytime fare) can be applied to journeys where you were under 18 at the time of entering into the contract. I don't think a judge would look too kindly at a train company trying to hold someone who was (legally) a child at the time, to such onerous provisions. They would likely want to see clear evidence that you were aware of the provisions of condition 9.2.1 - which of course there wouldn't be.

It is certainly worthwhile trying to make the point about Anytime fares to GWR but I don't think it will get very far with them. Our experience, based on cases such as @anonymousdxb 's, is that they stonewall you and basically insist on their figures or Court.

Given the circumstances I think there is more incentive than in many other cases to let it proceed to Court, to challenge the frankly ridiculous amounts GWR are asking for. But it is very much a question of whether you're prepared to do that.

 

[anonymousdxb]

I'm not sure, the OP is only being asked to pay £422, so they don't have that much to save by going to court, given the fees and headache ... I would understand the strategy of tryign to reduce it as much as possible but then just paying out whatever is left...