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Does anyone know which GWR services on the Portsmouth line are booked for which types? I know on RTT you can see the units but is this the same every day and the classes have their own booked diagrams? So if it shows as a 158 then will it be a 158 all the time and if it shows as a 165/166 then will it be a 165/166 all the time?
I much prefer taking a 165/166 where possible so just want to know in advance. It always seems so random when i use this line. But i presume there are proper allocations of each type on this line.
The booked diagrams are a mix of 158 and 16x types. Whilst there are allocated workings for each type, day-to-day factors tend to make things varied. In realtimetrains the timing load for the schedules all show 158 but you can check individual services on the day to see what stock type is actually allocated I think.
What is booked and what actually operates it seem to vary almost daily.
GWR do not hold any spare stock at either end (trains normally get replaced at Bristol if there are faults) so they tend to operate more on a what is avaliable basis in practice.
Living on line, can advise most common is mix of single 3car 166 or 3car 165, with 4car (2x2car) 158s. A daily train is 5car (165+166), but 2car are sometimes used (both 165 or 158) and odd 6car formations turn up every few days. No consistency whatever.
The booked diagrams are a mix of 158 and 16x types. Whilst there are allocated workings for each type, day-to-day factors tend to make things varied. In realtimetrains the timing load for the schedules all show 158 but you can check individual services on the day to see what stock type is actually allocated I think.
What is booked and what actually operates it seem to vary almost daily.
GWR do not hold any spare stock at either end (trains normally get replaced at Bristol if there are faults) so they tend to operate more on a what is avaliable basis in practice.
Living on line, can advise most common is mix of single 3car 166 or 3car 165, with 4car (2x2car) 158s. A daily train is 5car (165+166), but 2car are sometimes used (both 165 or 158) and odd 6car formations turn up every few days. No consistency whatever.
Thank you both for the replies. It seems like checking RTT on the day is probably the best way then.
I was wondering whether the 6 coach formations were now booked. I seem to remember that 5 coach was previously the maximum but looking on RTT i see quite a few 6 coach formations nowadays. Looking back at Friday (31st) there was both 166211+166212 on a Portsmouth service in the morning and 166203+166215 on a Portsmouth service in the evening. It would certainly be good to see some more 6 coach trains to provide a capacity increase.
Do any 150s ever still end up on the line? I remember going back to the 2010s you used to get the 150/0 and 150/1 and 150/2 stock all substituting on the Portsmouth line regularly but i presume this has ended?
It would certainly be good to see some more 6 coach trains to provide a capacity increase.
Do any 150s ever still end up on the line? I remember going back to the 2010s you used to get the 150/0 and 150/1 and 150/2 stock all substituting on the Portsmouth line regularly but i presume this has ended?
6-car trains: the one that ran 6-car on Friday in the late afternoon was the one that is normally 5, so presumably it was just that a 3-car 166 was operating the diagram that is normally a 2-car 165. The doubling up happens at Bristol and I strongly suspect that 3 cars would be sufficient again, if not from Bath, then not long afterwards. It was extra busy between Bristol and Bath because of a "will it, won't it run confusion concerning the 16.00 Paddington departure) that meant that many Bath passengers had abandoned it in favour of the 16.22 (which did indeed leave first [already late] - only to be passed by the even more delayed London train at Bristol East.)
Nowadays there are no 150s at Bristol to be pressed into emergency service and even if there were on occasion, I doubt the current traction / route knowledge combination would let them get far down the Portsmouth route as it must be getting on for 5 years since they were effectively banished to Exeter.
I was wondering whether the 6 coach formations were now booked. I seem to remember that 5 coach was previously the maximum but looking on RTT i see quite a few 6 coach formations nowadays.
To best of my knowledge no 6car are booked, but there are some services supposed to be a 2+3 coupled, and a 2car unit isn't available.
Occasionally they add a unit to move it between Bristol and Westbury rather than running empty.
From memory about 13 platforms along the route cannot take 6cars (but some of those are only few metres short). There are slightly more if you include platforms at places like Freshford where very few Portsmouth services call. From memory it would be relatively easy to extend the remaining platforms to 6cars as none involve moving signals etc.
I thought they couldn't run 6 cars on that route because some of the platforms are too short? Surely when those 6 cars happened the rear 3 would have been locked out?
I thought they couldn't run 6 cars on that route because some of the platforms are too short? Surely when those 6 cars happened the rear 3 would have been locked out?
They tend to lock out the rear coach when a 6 car operates, so still 5 in use. Warminster, Trowbridge, Bradford on Avon and Filton Abbey Wood all have platforms that are too short for 6 carriages, as well as Patchway, Oldfield Park, Freshford and possibly Severn Tunnel Junction, which aren’t served as frequently but all get daily calls on the Portsmouth trains. GWR’s 16x and 158 are not fitted with selective door opening.
Makes sense. I've only seen two occasions of 2x 166: both times at Cosham, last year; and on both times the rear unit was defective and so only the front 3 carriages were in use.
Makes sense. I've only seen two occasions of 2x 166: both times at Cosham, last year; and on both times the rear unit was defective and so only the front 3 carriages were in use.
Both units were working on Friday and I think I was in the back coach. It's certainly where I tend to gravitate to - but it was Friday afternoon and I was on auto-pilot so can't be certain.
I know that Romsey can certainly fit six coaches on both platforms. Surely it would make sense to lengthen all of the other platforms to fit six coaches. Most of them fit five coaches so it would be an easy short extension. I am surprised that there seems to be no plans to do this.
Does anyone know which GWR services on the Portsmouth line are booked for which types? I know on RTT you can see the units but is this the same every day and the classes have their own booked diagrams? So if it shows as a 158 then will it be a 158 all the time and if it shows as a 165/166 then will it be a 165/166 all the time?
I much prefer taking a 165/166 where possible so just want to know in advance. It always seems so random when i use this line. But i presume there are proper allocations of each type on this line.
Yes, each of the services will appear on one of the types traction diagrams so, in theory, the same traction type will appear on the same service every day. In reality, as has been noted, what actually appears depends on what's available.
Some examples:
1F32 19:23 Portsmouth Hbr - Cardiff appears on PM255 (a 165 2 car diagram) & PM 451 (a 166 3 car diagram) so should be a consist of 5 cars Monday - Friday.
1F06 06:01 Portsmouth Hbr - Cardiff only appears on PM 455 (a 166 diagram) so should be a 3 car only Mon-Fri
1F24 15.23 Portsmouth Hbr - Cardiff appears on PM 656 & PM 659 (both 158/0 diagrams) so should produce 2x 158 daily.
A check on RTT for the above services yesterday (03/11) produced the following allocations:
1F32 = 165135 & 166215
1F06 = 166212
1F24 = 158766 & 748
Typically all three services checked ran as booked traction wise, I'm sure regular users of these services will have plenty of examples when they haven't.
Apart from empty stock moves, the only booked 166 6 car I could see is 1F00 (MSX) 05:01 Bristol TM - Westbury (where it splits)
I know that Romsey can certainly fit six coaches on both platforms. Surely it would make sense to lengthen all of the other platforms to fit six coaches. Most of them fit five coaches so it would be an easy short extension. I am surprised that there seems to be no plans to do this.
GWR has one proper 3car 158, and some formed by splitting units and making up a 3car with extra cab unit in the middle.
They don't have enough 158s to make everything 5car (even when all the 175s are in service). Need 8 sets in service, and realistically 9.5 or 10 trains due to age and (un)reliability to cover servicing, and fact it takes over 2 hours to get an empty set from Bristol depot to Portsmouth if they need a substitute early morning.
So if Portsmouth service would become all 5car would need 48-50 vehicles.
Some peak hour workings get too busy for just 4car 158, so as GWR only has 41 class 158s I understand plan is to keep one working as a 165, 166
I know that Romsey can certainly fit six coaches on both platforms. Surely it would make sense to lengthen all of the other platforms to fit six coaches. Most of them fit five coaches so it would be an easy short extension. I am surprised that there seems to be no plans to do this.
Don't forget some platforms have 6car (20m length carriage) stop signs, so got to be careful if they can take 6x23m. I know some of the platforms are nearer 5.5 x 23m and from memory think someone in past said it requires only about total of 250m easy platform extensions to make all normally used long enough for 6x23m. Then there is about extra 130m needed if you lengthen platforms occasionally served like Oldfield Park, Freshford etc.
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They tend to lock out the rear coach when a 6 car operates, so still 5 in use. Warminster, Trowbridge, Bradford on Avon and Filton Abbey Wood all have platforms that are too short for 6 carriages, as well as Patchway, Oldfield Park, Freshford and possibly Severn Tunnel Junction, which aren’t served as frequently but all get daily calls on the Portsmouth trains. GWR’s 16x and 158 are not fitted with selective door opening.
Yes, many platforms are 120m - 121m long, but others vary
Warminster is 121m down, 128m up
Trowbridge is 121m down, 154m up
Bradford on Avon is 120m down, 133m up
Bath Spa is (1) 195m, (2) 279m
Oldfield Park (both) 129m
Keynsham (both) 209m
Filton Abbey Wood is (1, 3 & 4) 117m, (2) 128m,
Ashley Down (both) 126m
Stapleton Road up 218m, down 211m
a 6car 158, 165, 166 is 138m long, so some platforms just need extra 10m (or maybe 15m if give a bit of extra stopping margin), So not like need to add 23+m to every platform for 6cars.
a 6car 158, 165, 166 is 138m long, so some platforms just need extra 10m (or maybe 15m if give a bit of extra stopping margin), So not like need to add 23+m to every platform for 6cars.
To be honest, that would still be a lot of capital used when GWR are looking to replace the stock anyway within the coming years, assuming the new stock would be fitted with SDO.
