GWR MetroWest Enhancements Stock

[Benjwri]

In the May 2023 timetable, as shown on RTT, the MetroWest timetable changes which have been proposed for the past few years have been implemented, that is an increase to half hourly trains between Bristol and Gloucester, and Bristol and Westbury, and this is confirmed by the relevant funding having been allocated by WECA and that last month in a parliamentary debate about increase of Bristol to Gloucester services, the following was said:

I have been offered assurances from GWR’s managing director, who has been clear that his team have identified the rolling stock required for the extra trains and that the training will be in place for May. There are also provisional plans for the service to be funded by the West of England Combined Authority for three years after it is operational, as part of an agreement with GWR.

As many will know, GWRs regional fleet, especially around Bristol, is already struggling, with short forming being extremely common, and even services being cancelled sometimes, due to a lack of trains. So my question is if anyone is aware of the plans to overcome this? Are new train sets being acquired as the above quote appears to suggest?

 

[irish_rail]

In the May 2023 timetable, as shown on RTT, the MetroWest timetable changes which have been proposed for the past few years have been implemented, that is an increase to half hourly trains between Bristol and Gloucester, and Bristol and Westbury, and this is confirmed by the relevant funding having been allocated by WECA and that last month in a parliamentary debate about increase of Bristol to Gloucester services, the following was said:

As many will know, GWRs regional fleet, especially around Bristol, is already struggling, with short forming being extremely common, and even services being cancelled sometimes, due to a lack of trains. So my question is if anyone is aware of the plans to overcome this? Are new train sets being acquired as the above quote appears to suggest?

I've heard it mentioned bustitution on some branch lines is a possibility. Thanks alot Daft.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

In the May 2023 timetable, as shown on RTT, the MetroWest timetable changes which have been proposed for the past few years have been implemented, that is an increase to half hourly trains between Bristol and Gloucester, and Bristol and Westbury, and this is confirmed by the relevant funding having been allocated by WECA and that last month in a parliamentary debate about increase of Bristol to Gloucester services, the following was said:

As many will know, GWRs regional fleet, especially around Bristol, is already struggling, with short forming being extremely common, and even services being cancelled sometimes, due to a lack of trains. So my question is if anyone is aware of the plans to overcome this? Are new train sets being acquired as the above quote appears to suggest?

Westbury is already 3tph in the peaks - the extra Metro West Trains are off peak only. So no extra stock required for this leg of Metro West.

I understand the following is happening to free up the two DMUs needed to run the extra hourly service between Gloucester and Bristol:

The current 07.00 Gloucester to Penzance HST (07.49 departure from Bristol) becomes an 06.00 Paddington to Penzance via Bristol which replaces the previous Gloucester HST between Bristol and Plymouth (also replaces the 05.45 Paddington to Bristol and 06.37 Paddington to Penzance).

Realtime Trains | 1C55 0600 London Paddington to Penzance | 30/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 1C55 0600 departure from London Paddington to Penzance on 30/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The existing 07.52 Bristol to Penzance 3 car 158 DMU becomes and 07.00 Gloucester to Penzance class 80x

Realtime Trains | 2C65 0700 Gloucester to Penzance | 30/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 2C65 0700 departure from Gloucester to Penzance on 30/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The rest of the diagram switches from 3 car 158 to 5 car 80x releasing the DMU. This diagram finishes with the 18.15 Penzance to Exeter which you can see is also timed now for a 5 car 80x

Realtime Trains | 2E26 1815 Penzance to Exeter St Davids | 06/06/2023

Real-time train running information for 2E26 1815 departure from Penzance to Exeter St Davids on 06/06/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Elsewhere the North Downs requirement reduces by 1 diagram with the removal of the 0701 Shalford - Reading / 08.20 Reading to Guildford and 09.14 Guildford to Reading services from May 2023. This unit had no PM peak workings. All these changes and other North Downs re-timings now show in Real Time Trains allowing an extra 16x to move to Bristol.

As @Bald Rick has said many times there are cost cutting measures in place and it’s clear on GWR through other posts this franchise hasn’t been immune (Cotswold line cuts and the North Down AM peak reduction). The stock saved is simply being recycled elsewhere, in this case to deliver Metro West.

 

[Benjwri]

Thanks for the very detailed info, although I would assume the extra off peak services will still result in more short forming anyways, as less trains will be available off peak.

As @Bald Rick has said many times there are cost cutting measures in place and it’s clear on GWR through other posts this franchise hasn’t been immune (Cotswold line cuts and the North Down AM peak reduction). The stock saved is simply being recycled elsewhere, in this case to deliver Metro West.

Yes it is clear a lot of cost saving has gone on, not least because WECA is funding the extra services, so not only are they saving the money from running them, but they can also claim they have increased frequencies by doing so.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Thanks for the very detailed info, although I would assume the extra off peak services will still result in more short forming anyways, as less trains will be available off peak.

Not quite sure on the actual formations but hopefully that gives a summary of where the extra physical trains seems to be coming from, also seems to dispels myths that 158s are being take to replace HSTs as looking at RTT there’s actually one less 158 on Devon/Cornwall workings.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Feb 2023 ==

I've heard it mentioned bustitution on some branch lines is a possibility. Thanks alot Daft.

Not been mentioned for Devon and Cornwall AFAIK.

 

[Benjwri]

Not been mentioned for Devon and Cornwall AFAIK.

Would wish them luck with that on the Thames Valley Lines, think for most of them they'd be hung drawn and quartered by Parliament. Might've got away with it just about for Marlow, but considering the MP is a Tory Whip again feel they might become the target of quite a lot of political force.

The Bristol branches again seem unlikely, given they pretty much border the Secretary of State for Transport's constituency, and I'm sure the newspapers would eat something like that up.

Maybe they'd get away with Greenford until they actually manage a battery trial?

 

[fgwrich]

Not quite sure on the actual formations but hopefully that gives a summary of where the extra physical trains seems to be coming from, also seems to dispels myths that 158s are being take to replace HSTs as looking at RTT there’s actually one less 158 on Devon/Cornwall workings.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Feb 2023 ==

Which will be interesting, given that those 158s are the first (and only) choice backup to the 150s on the Devon and Cornwall branches (St Ives / Falmouth at least). Better hope those 150s can last a little longer...

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Which will be interesting, given that those 158s are the first (and only) choice backup to the 150s on the Devon and Cornwall branches (St Ives / Falmouth at least). Better hope those 150s can last a little longer...

There’s a standby 150 in Cornwall from May:

The Newquay branch unit no longer runs ECS to Penzance but spends a second night at Par and then works an additional 06.20 Par to Plymouth stopping service (presumably for Dockyard workers as serves the small Plymouth stations) which then attaches to the 06.25 Exeter to Penzance at Plymouth and then RTT shows this forming a 10.00 Penzance to Depot ECS and nothing else is booked off the depot so is presumably spare.

For those of you interested the single 158 diagram in Cornwall from May 23 on weekdays appears to work the following:

06.25 Exeter to Penzance
09.50 Penzance to Plymouth
12.19 Plymouth to Penzance
14.50 Penzance to Plymouth
17.00 Plymouth to Liskeard
17.56 Liskeard to Plymouth
18.30 Plymouth to Penzance
21.00 Penzance to Exeter

 

[class ep-09]

I wonder how the increased service to Worcester is going to get its stock .
They are going from 1tp2hr to 1tp1hr and run between Worcester Foregate Street to Bristol Temple Meads.
It seems that “West” units won’t be going to Great Malvern anymore so perhaps that’s how “ additional “ stock will be found .

 

[Snow1964]

Now that new service has started, I have been watching some trains in mid week peak hours and I think there are some trains that need lengthening due to crowding.

To provide balance there are some 3car workings that have loadings that appear could be handled by 2car, which suggests some allocations possibly need tweaking.

There is another thing that I have noticed, and that is a lot of the local trains from Trowbridge, Westbury route have a lot of people who don't get off at Bristol TM, but continue towards Filton Abbey Wood. I have just discovered that MOD had 3 huge admin sites at Bath that were moved to Abbey Wood few years ago which might be a reason.

Makes me wonder if current interim phase of Metrowest (before they open additional 7 stations and make it busier) was well thought out, or has been hindered by lack of extra stock. There seem to be some trains that are too short, and others where using Bristol avoiding curve could save 10-15 minutes off peoples commutes (seems current arrangement too much Temple Meads centric in its thinking, and not enough across city). Plenty of other trains do Bath - Bristol, so would a few avoiding Bristol improve (quicken) journeys for many, especially with new or more regular ability to change at Bath, Filton or Parkway.

I do wonder if all the reversals at Bristol were best use of resources or if it would have been better to have a mix of destinations each hour, eg Westbury- Bath - Weston super Mare.

One thing is clear, the current stock allocation (train lengths) needs tweaking to match the revised passenger flows.

 

[stuu]

There is another thing that I have noticed, and that is a lot of the local trains from Trowbridge, Westbury route have a lot of people who don't get off at Bristol TM, but continue towards Filton Abbey Wood. I have just discovered that MOD had 3 huge admin sites at Bath that were moved to Abbey Wood few years ago which might be a reason.

Filton Abbey Wood is a major destination - it was used by around 1m passengers per year pre-covid, it's the third-busiest station in Bristol by some margin. And not much lower than WSM

 

[Bob Price]

Big pile of 150's will be off lease in the next couple of years from TfW. A logical well planned rail service would be grabbing these for enhancing the West of England services. Sadly we have a Treasury run railway and these will likely end up at Simms.

 

[RailWonderer]

A logical well planned rail service would be grabbing these for enhancing the West of England services. Sadly we have a Treasury run railway and these will likely end up at Simms.

A logical well planned railway won't be leasing 40 year old trains, they would be looking at cascades or ordering new.

 

[Pete_uk]

I expect a flood of CAF units within the next decade.

 

[Parallel]

I think the issue of not calling at Bristol Temple Meads would probably result in complications with train crew diagramming seeing as there are plenty of swaps there. It would also mean Keynsham and Oldfield Park would still only get 1tph to Bristol whereas they now get 2tph with the extras running via Bristol.

Wasn’t one of the benefits of 3tph between Bristol and Westbury to also help ease crowding between Westbury and Bristol of the Portsmouth - Cardiff services, which, the extras should be doing seeing as they run about 10 minutes before them northbound and about 14 minutes before them southbound. I’d be interested to see if this is the case.

There are definitely some trains that 2 coaches seem a bit risky on though - anything Gloucester/Bristol to Weymouth for example as you’ll be carrying both longer distance and local passengers on those trains.

To be honest, I’m kind of shocked that this went ahead in the current climate where the DfT seem to be constantly demanding cuts.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

To be honest, I’m kind of shocked that this went ahead in the current climate where the DfT seem to be constantly demanding cuts.

The good, unexpectedly pleased kind of shocked? Give GWR their due (and WECA who have funded it.)

 

[jhy44]

I wonder how the increased service to Worcester is going to get its stock .
They are going from 1tp2hr to 1tp1hr and run between Worcester Foregate Street to Bristol Temple Meads.
It seems that “West” units won’t be going to Great Malvern anymore so perhaps that’s how “ additional “ stock will be found .

Bristol Temple Meads - Worcester Foregate Street hasn't gone from 0.5 to 1 tph; there are still some 2 hour gaps, and some services which only run as far as Worcester Shrub Hill (which then ruins some connections from Foregate Street) Departures from Temple Meads:

• 06:xx MISSING TRAIN
• 07:xx MISSING TRAIN
• 08:40 to Foregate Street
• 09:38 to Foregate Street
• 10:xx MISSING TRAIN
• 11:38 to Foregate Street
• 12:38 to Foregate Street
• 13:39 to Foregate Street
• 14:39 to Foregate Street
• 15:38 to Shrub Hill
• 16:39 to Foregate Street
• 17:38 to Shrub Hill
• 18:40 to Great Malvern
• 19:xx MISSING TRAIN
• 21:00 to Shrub Hill
• 22:xx MISSING TRAIN

Seems a bit strange/unfortunate to have not made it a reliable 1tph right through to Foregate Street, but I'm sure they have their reasons for it.

 

[Parallel]

The good, unexpectedly pleased kind of shocked? Give GWR their due (and WECA who have funded it.)

Yes - pleasantly surprised may have been better wording!

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Bristol Temple Meads - Worcester Foregate Street hasn't gone from 0.5 to 1 tph; there are still some 2 hour gaps, and some services which only run as far as Worcester Shrub Hill (which then ruins some connections from Foregate Street) Departures from Temple Meads:

• 06:xx MISSING TRAIN
• 07:xx MISSING TRAIN
• 08:40 to Foregate Street
• 09:38 to Foregate Street
• 10:xx MISSING TRAIN
• 11:38 to Foregate Street
• 12:38 to Foregate Street
• 13:39 to Foregate Street
• 14:39 to Foregate Street
• 15:38 to Shrub Hill
• 16:39 to Foregate Street
• 17:38 to Shrub Hill
• 18:40 to Great Malvern
• 19:xx MISSING TRAIN
• 21:00 to Shrub Hill
• 22:xx MISSING TRAIN

Seems a bit strange/unfortunate to have not made it a reliable 1tph right through to Foregate Street, but I'm sure they have their reasons for it.

In some peak hours I know WMT have extra workings via Shrub Hill to/from Foregate Street and the Malvern-Hereford line so that could explain the short workings. The gaps are likely due to stock optimisation overall - to be fair Worcester is at the extremity of the Metrowest network.

Edit: There is definitely a 10:38 Bristol TM to Worcester Foregate Street, I’ve just checked on RTT.
(Also - why would you expect a direct train as late as 22:xx?)

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Bristol Temple Meads - Worcester Foregate Street hasn't gone from 0.5 to 1 tph; there are still some 2 hour gaps, and some services which only run as far as Worcester Shrub Hill (which then ruins some connections from Foregate Street) Departures from Temple Meads:

• 06:xx MISSING TRAIN
• 07:xx MISSING TRAIN
• 08:40 to Foregate Street
• 09:38 to Foregate Street
• 10:xx MISSING TRAIN
• 11:38 to Foregate Street
• 12:38 to Foregate Street
• 13:39 to Foregate Street
• 14:39 to Foregate Street
• 15:38 to Shrub Hill
• 16:39 to Foregate Street
• 17:38 to Shrub Hill
• 18:40 to Great Malvern
• 19:xx MISSING TRAIN
• 21:00 to Shrub Hill
• 22:xx MISSING TRAIN

Seems a bit strange/unfortunate to have not made it a reliable 1tph right through to Foregate Street, but I'm sure they have their reasons for it.

The 07.40 Gloucester has a connection at Gloucester for Worcester.

The 10.38 does exist.

The service is a vast improvement compared to pre May TT.

 

[winsaw]

Now that new service has started, I have been watching some trains in mid week peak hours and I think there are some trains that need lengthening due to crowding.

To provide balance there are some 3car workings that have loadings that appear could be handled by 2car, which suggests some allocations possibly need tweaking.

There is another thing that I have noticed, and that is a lot of the local trains from Trowbridge, Westbury route have a lot of people who don't get off at Bristol TM, but continue towards Filton Abbey Wood. I have just discovered that MOD had 3 huge admin sites at Bath that were moved to Abbey Wood few years ago which might be a reason.

Makes me wonder if current interim phase of Metrowest (before they open additional 7 stations and make it busier) was well thought out, or has been hindered by lack of extra stock. There seem to be some trains that are too short, and others where using Bristol avoiding curve could save 10-15 minutes off peoples commutes (seems current arrangement too much Temple Meads centric in its thinking, and not enough across city). Plenty of other trains do Bath - Bristol, so would a few avoiding Bristol improve (quicken) journeys for many, especially with new or more regular ability to change at Bath, Filton or Parkway.

I do wonder if all the reversals at Bristol were best use of resources or if it would have been better to have a mix of destinations each hour, eg Westbury- Bath - Weston super Mare.

One thing is clear, the current stock allocation (train lengths) needs tweaking to match the revised passenger flows.

Back when Abby Wood first opened they used to run 3-4 trains direct to Filton from Bath avoiding Temple meads for the very reason you state,
Over the years this has been reduced as the demand has dropped off, I haven't checked the current timetable but last year was down to 1 avoid Bristol,
I was told there just wasn't enough people using them as seams people using them these days as I guess people had relocated or left, so it's very interesting that you are still seeing a lot of people going bath to Filton, I guess the question is it it enough people to fill one or two direct trains a day

 

[Techniquest]

The 07.40 Gloucester has a connection at Gloucester for Worcester.

The 10.38 does exist.

The service is a vast improvement compared to pre May TT.

A drastic improvement! Thankfully, gone are the days when you had to plan carefully around which train you caught to Worcester to proceed to Gloucester and beyond. Of course, there has been the option to go via Worcestershire Parkway for quite some time, but that's more expensive than the GWR services.

It would be nice if one could book a First Class fare for Worcester-Cheltenham and beyond to Bristol, now there's IETs serving the route. I couldn't find such a fare in the GWR app recently, maybe it's a bit like some routes to/from Hereford where it's available on the TVM but not in the app? Something I'll be looking at next time I'm over there for sure.

 

[Snow1964]

it's very interesting that you are still seeing a lot of people going bath to Filton, I guess the question is it it enough people to fill one or two direct trains a day

Perhaps I phrased it badly, not specifically Bath - Filton, but a fair proportion of the passenger's not getting on or off at Bristol.

More a case of these are having 10-15 minutes extra added to their journey whilst the relatively slow reversal at Bristol is done. Some trains are booked to stand at Temple Meads for 10 minutes.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Is the Temple Meads-avoiding Parliamentary service still running?

 

[WelshBluebird]

Perhaps I phrased it badly, not specifically Bath - Filton, but a fair proportion of the passenger's not getting on or off at Bristol.

More a case of these are having 10-15 minutes extra added to their journey whilst the relatively slow reversal at Bristol is done. Some trains are booked to stand at Temple Meads for 10 minutes

Is that just dwell time though (probably for recovery time / pathing)? The actual reversals can be done pretty quickly (e.g. the 19.57 Bristol to Cardiff service arrives at 19.52, so only 5 minutes taken there at the station itself, or 7 minutes between the two passes of Bristol East junction - I'm assuming not that many minutes longer than going along the avoiding line would be given the last time I went along there as part of a diversion due to engineering works the curve was taken VERY VERY slowly).

Is the Temple Meads-avoiding Parliamentary service still running?

I can't see it at least (at least for weekdays).
Though when looking I did see one Severn Beach service that continues through Bristol onwards to Bath and Salisbury which I think is new.

 

[Snow1964]

Yes very variable the reversal time at Bristol TM under new Metrowest timetable, makes me wonder if pathing isn't really there to send all trains via Bristol efficiently

examples
1F24 & 1F26 Portsmouth - Cardiff gets 10 mins wait
1F23 Cardiff - Portsmouth waits just 5 mins at Bristol
1F25 Cardiff - Portsmouth waits 7 minutes at Bristol

The 2C08 Gloucester- Frome is allocated just 4 minutes.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Is the Temple Meads-avoiding Parliamentary service still running?

Yes.

Realtime Trains | 2R54 0706 Bath Spa to Filton Abbey Wood | 20/06/2023

Real-time train running information for 2R54 0706 departure from Bath Spa to Filton Abbey Wood on 20/06/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jun 2023 ==

Yes very variable the reversal time at Bristol TM under new Metrowest timetable, makes me wonder if pathing isn't really there to send all trains via Bristol efficiently

examples
1F24 & 1F26 Portsmouth - Cardiff gets 10 mins wait
1F23 Cardiff - Portsmouth waits just 5 mins at Bristol
1F25 Cardiff - Portsmouth waits 7 minutes at Bristol

The 2C08 Gloucester- Frome is allocated just 4 minutes.

Its also called robust planning, having a buffer in the reversal at Bristol Temple Meads reduces the risk of importing delays between the Westbury corridor and the Cardiff corridor. Look at somewhere like Zurich in Switzerland where trains often have 10+ minutes for reversals on through journeys.

Further more it is incredibly slow around the “Rhubarb” avoiding Bristol with sone horrendous junction margins which actually eat capacity.

Final point the Portsmouth to Cardiff services provide one of the half hourly services between Cardiff and Bristol which are very popular. You would disadvantage far more people than the number of winners by saving 5 minutes on Bath to Filton.

Not sure the obsession with journey times over this.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Yes.

Realtime Trains | 2R54 0706 Bath Spa to Filton Abbey Wood | 20/06/2023

Real-time train running information for 2R54 0706 departure from Bath Spa to Filton Abbey Wood on 20/06/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Ah nice find. Has the morning one always been there or have they moved the afternoon service to the morning?

Its also called robust planning, having a buffer in the reversal at Bristol Temple Meads reduces the risk of importing delays between the Westbury corridor and the Cardiff corridor. Look at somewhere like Zurich in Switzerland where trains often have 10+ minutes for reversals on through journeys.

Further more it is incredibly slow around the “Rhubarb” avoiding Bristol with sone horrendous junction margins which actually eat capacity.

Final point the Portsmouth to Cardiff services provide one of the half hourly services between Cardiff and Bristol which are very popular. You would disadvantage far more people than the number of winners by saving 5 minutes on Bath to Filton.

Not sure the obsession with journey times over this.

As a frequent user of services between Bath, Bristol and Cardiff I have to agree with pretty much all of that.
The recovery time built in has saved quite a lot of services I have been on from being capped at Newport I'd imagine (which is what tends to happen if a service is so late heading to Cardiff that it would cause the next outbound service that unit or staff would run to be late).

 

[3141]

A logical well planned railway won't be leasing 40 year old trains, they would be looking at cascades or ordering new.

Isn't it the case that GWR intended further cascades of class 165/166 by introducing class 769s onto the North Downs Line? Not their fault that that didn't work out.

 

[Snow1964]

A logical well planned railway won't be leasing 40 year old trains, they would be looking at cascades or ordering new.

It is in the GWR Business Commitments (page 26-27, section 2.1, f (i- iv) future fleet and depot proposal, need to have :
i) shortlist selection
ii) completion of evaluation
iii) recommended to secretary of State
iv) contract award
..... commence procurement no later than 23 September 2023

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1160393/first-greater-western-limited-2022-business-plan-commitments.pdf

So within 3.5 months should be known where the new trains for future fleet are coming from as committed to have done contract award by then.

No indication of quantity or type of train, but business commitment 9.1-A 1.4 (same document) has total decarbonisation of traction by 2050, which rather suggests buying pure diesels in mid to late 2020s would be stupidly shortsighted given normal 30-40 year life.