GwR HSTs to be stood down

[Liam L]

Where are RailAdventure’s operations based?

Kings Norton, unsure if they use any other locations.

 

[Railperf]

Is the growing number of IET's out of service likely to delay the withdrawal of the 'Castle's?

 

[Clarence Yard]

No.

 

[The_Train]

Is the growing number of IET's out of service likely to delay the withdrawal of the 'Castle's?

Probably not, based on how the railway is being run currently, it will be a case of them reducing services to suit available stock rather than keeping more stock to provide a fit for service timetable

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jul 2023 ==

Where are RailAdventure’s operations based?

Munich, Germany

 

[50002Superb]

Path in today: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K05745/2023-07-31/detailed

 

[Railperf]

Perfect for Scotrail? Does it go to Ely under its own power?

 

[XCTurbostar]

Perfect for Scotrail? Does it go to Ely under its own power?

There will be no more ScotRail sets or coaches, Transport Scotland have no interest in them. Yes its under its own power.

 

[Wyrleybart]

There will be no more ScotRail sets or coaches, Transport Scotland have no interest in them. Yes its under its own power.

I understand some of Scotrail's "5th car" trailers have yet to see significant if any use.

 

[Railperf]

I understand some of Scotrail's "5th car" trailers have yet to see significant if any use.

Yes, sitting at Slateford IIRC. Saw them there some weeks back.

 

[rustbucket]

I understand some of Scotrail's "5th car" trailers have yet to see significant if any use.

No use at all AIUI

 

[SirDanielGooch]

Morning train into work on the Penzance - Cardiff route cancelled, normally a 5-car IET, due to “more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time”. A HST castle set would be handy around now…

Only going to happen more and more in this corner of the network with HST withdrawals from the XC services and the Penzance/Taunton - Cardiff GWR stoppers and absolutely naff all to replace them. If trying to even semi-regularly catch the train continues to be this much of a lottery, the message of “give up on public transport, use your car” will continue to be hammered into everyone’s brains and the chances of hitting any kind of climate targets will fade into oblivion. The service quality is utterly appalling.

 

[Dan G]

As explained before, what's replacing HSTs is full utilisation of the IET fleet.

It's not as if HSTs were always available and always turned up!

 

[Box]

As explained before, what's replacing HSTs is full utilisation of the IET fleet.

It's not as if HSTs were always available and always turned up!

So the IETs are causing cancelled services due to more than usual needing repair but also sitting around under-utilised at the same time?

 

[Deafdoggie]

Morning train into work on the Penzance - Cardiff route cancelled, normally a 5-car IET, due to “more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time”. A HST castle set would be handy around now…

Only going to happen more and more in this corner of the network with HST withdrawals from the XC services and the Penzance/Taunton - Cardiff GWR stoppers and absolutely naff all to replace them. If trying to even semi-regularly catch the train continues to be this much of a lottery, the message of “give up on public transport, use your car” will continue to be hammered into everyone’s brains and the chances of hitting any kind of climate targets will fade into oblivion. The service quality is utterly appalling.

Sadly the railways seem hell-bent on self destruction. Some blame railway workers, some blame the unions some blame the government. But, in reality, it doesn't matter, they've pressed self-destruct.
I used to travel everywhere by train and spent thousands of pounds on tickets, but a combination of eye-watering fares, lack of seats, grumpy unhelpful staff & being deposited on a random platform with no information or onward transport for "operational reasons" gradually took its toll & I took the plunge and got a car. Factoring in all the costs (including buying it) I'm £thousands better off and more relaxed and less stressed on arrival. Which is odd, as I'd always assumed it was the other way round. Modern cars are so easy to drive, it really requires very little input from me, unbelievably cheap to run and satnav is remarkably good at avoiding traffic. As a lifelong rail fan it disappointed me to see how much better car travel was. A few years on from getting he car I've not looked back.
Just for clarity, obviously a lot of trains aren't overcrowded, a lot of staff are really helpful and friendly, but they should all be!

 

[Deepgreen]

Sadly the railways seem hell-bent on self destruction. Some blame railway workers, some blame the unions some blame the government. But, in reality, it doesn't matter, they've pressed self-destruct.
I used to travel everywhere by train and spent thousands of pounds on tickets, but a combination of eye-watering fares, lack of seats, grumpy unhelpful staff & being deposited on a random platform with no information or onward transport for "operational reasons" gradually took its toll & I took the plunge and got a car. Factoring in all the costs (including buying it) I'm £thousands better off and more relaxed and less stressed on arrival. Which is odd, as I'd always assumed it was the other way round. Modern cars are so easy to drive, it really requires very little input from me, unbelievably cheap to run and satnav is remarkably good at avoiding traffic. As a lifelong rail fan it disappointed me to see how much better car travel was. A few years on from getting he car I've not looked back.
Just for clarity, obviously a lot of trains aren't overcrowded, a lot of staff are really helpful and friendly, but they should all be!

I'm afraid this is the case widely. The sensible choice for so many journeys should be rail, but it has been/is being made so hard to rely on that it is failing in this regard. On principle I will always try to go by train, but it's simply getting harder and harder to do so. I hate this situation so deeply. However, this is only tangentially-related to the topic of HSTs going!

 

[The_Train]

As explained before, what's replacing HSTs is full utilisation of the IET fleet.

It's not as if HSTs were always available and always turned up!

If the IET fleet was under utilised, they'd have plenty sat around to cover other IET failures and wouldn't be cancelling services. This is a myth, there are no trains lying around doing nothing, it is a reduction of rolling stock in a continued attempt to make the railways unfeasible to use, reduces usage and thus giving the government more excuse to reduce staff levels! This will be replicated on XC when their HSTs go as well, albeit in slightly less numbers, but massively in making journey's more uncomfortable for those poor sods who have to use XC regularly

 

[Deafdoggie]

As explained before, what's replacing HSTs is full utilisation of the IET fleet.

It's not as if HSTs were always available and always turned up!

So there's no reduction in service then? The fact there is a reduction in service means there's no replacement

 

[Energy]

So there's no reduction in service then? The fact there is a reduction in service means there's no replacement

The 80Xs were originally to be used on superfast Bristol services which no longer run. They are spare with the availability issues being due to Hitachi depots failing to provide enough units, GWR is working on this. LNER doesn't have these issues as its fleet utilisation is low (~70%) while GWR is running around the originally contracted amount.

 

[Deafdoggie]

The 80Xs were originally to be used on superfast Bristol services which did not happen. They are spare with the availability issues being due to Hitachi depots failing to provide enough units, GWR is working on this. LNER doesn't have these issues as its fleet utilisation is low (~70%) while GWR is running around the originally contracted amount.

But there is still a halving of the Cornish frequency

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

But there is still a halving of the Cornish frequency

This is a misconception, as has been explained a fair few times

 

[northernbelle]

But there is still a halving of the Cornish frequency

Is there?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Is there?

No.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

But there is still a halving of the Cornish frequency

Is this something you have made up?

 

[brad465]

The 80Xs were originally to be used on superfast Bristol services which did not happen. They are spare with the availability issues being due to Hitachi depots failing to provide enough units, GWR is working on this. LNER doesn't have these issues as its fleet utilisation is low (~70%) while GWR is running around the originally contracted amount.

The "superfast Bristol services" did initially happen, I used one in January 2020. But once covid arrived it was one of the more redundant services in a post-covid world so very easy to chop.

 

[Energy]

The "superfast Bristol services" did initially happen, I used one in January 2020. But once covid arrived it was one of the more redundant services in a post-covid world so very easy to chop.

Thanks, fixed the original message

But there is still a halving of the Cornish frequency

There hasn't been.

 

[thaitransit]

Hearing a (very very strong) rumour that the GWR 2+4 HSTs are to be withdrawn completely by December 2023. No plans to replace them either but it will be bye bye to Cornish half hourly. A regressive step in my opinion, I only hope it turns out not to be true.

Please send these to NSW Trainlink they are desperate for extra powercars and sleeper cars! They can see out there days being absolutely thrashed on the rough tracks of NSW. I hope they can handle mid 40s degrees C heat of the summer!

 

[The exile]

If anyone’s interested, Castle set currently heading north to Gloucester vice Turbo…

 

[47444]

43158 & 43022 with a rake of MK3s moved to Kings Norton today. Both debranded.

Anyone got any ideas as to why? I believe the move was operated by rail adventure

022/158 storage apparently. Rumours are going around they've been acquired, but apparently stop over at King's Norton and then moving onto Ely for storage.

Can anyone identify the specific trailers please?

TIA

 

[smithy_37688]

Can anyone identify the specific trailers please?

TIA

Noted numbers I have were 48113, 49101, 48101, 48103. Hope this helps.

 

[Benjwri]

Apologies if this isn’t meant to be public, and if the mods deem it to need to be removed, so be it c but this was found with a very simple google search:
https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/members-updates/withdrawal-of-hst-24-rolling-stock-gwr120723/

Our Ref: BR2/15/4



12th July 2023



Dear Colleague



WITHDRAWAL OF HST 2+4 ROLLING STOCK – GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY



Further to my previous correspondence with regards to the above matter, I can now advise you that a further meeting has been held with the GWR Engineering Divisional Council where the company provided an update on their plans to withdraw the HST 2+4 rolling stock fleet. The following is a summary of the main points that were discussed during the meeting:

• Withdrawal timetable: Currently two of the 2+4 fleet are in service, however it is now envisaged that three will remain in service post December 2023, possibly until the May 2025 timetable.
• Staffing levels: The company maintained their position that there were no planned redundancies at either Laira Depot or any other Engineering Depot.
• Recruitment: Considering the withdrawal at this stage, it was advised that there continues to be a recruitment freeze in place.
• Work Re-balancing: The company has indicated that they are currently looking at the ‘re-balancing’ of work across their depots to ensure the viability of Laira Depot.

The Lead Officer has indicated that the above remains subject to confirmation and as such, it was agreed that a further meeting would be convened if required, to discuss any potential developments relating to this matter.



The matter has been subject to recent consideration by the union’s National Executive Committee who note the updated report from the Lead Officer and that the company is continuing with its program to withdraw the HST 2+4 rolling stock completely, by December 2023. Therefore, I have been instructed to place regular reports concerning this matter back before the Executive Committee for further consideration.



I trust this keeps you fully advised on the matter and I will, of course, update you on any further developments.



Yours sincerely



Michael Lynch

General Secretary

This seems to suggest the withdrawal has been put on hold, and we could be seeing HSTs remain running for as much as 2 more years. It sounds like the problem is finally at least being acknowledged. In does have to wonder what the timeframe means, obviously GWR expect something to appear or change so they can finally remove them.