GWR HST smashed windsceen at Dawlish

[Bald Rick]

In other news, train windscreens are smashed by lots of things, notably trees, birds and stones thrown by errant individuals. It's one of the risks of the railway system.

 

[PHILIPE]

Just heard from a friend who is travelling on the 17.03 Paddington to Penzance train this evening that it has had to be terminated at Newton Abbot after the drivers cab windscreen was smashed by a stone after the train was hit by a large wave at Dawlish. Surely this must raise some health and safety issues as to why this very exposed line remains open to trains that are too often being allowed to "run the gauntlet" there in severe weather especially when the nearby sea front road in Torquay is routinely closed in similar circumstances.
Incidentally Cross Country has now stopped its Voyagers at Exeter for three high tides on the run at Dawlish. (Last night/this morning and evening) and is likely to do the same for tomorrow mornings high tide. Whats the answer, or isnt there one and how long will it be before there is a very serious incident there?

1703 Paddington to Penzance worked forward from Newton Abbot by set of 5C22 19+34 Taunton to Newton Abbot and 1C89 ran empty to Laira in lieu.

The Cross Country Voyager situation is being discussed here:-

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=136465

 

[najaB]

Whats the answer, or isnt there one and how long will it be before there is a very serious incident there?

A stone breaking a windscreen barely registers on the Richter scale for train incidents.

 

[Taunton]

Anyone thinking that if there was still a line via Okehampton then Cross-Country would divert that way can think again. They would still terminate at Exeter. Too much messing about doing otherwise. Most storms are in winter when there is plenty of capacity on London HSTs to transfer to.

The line at Dawlish has lasted a long time. Remember steam locos? Completely open footplates. And they always carried on running until the tracks were disrupted. Passengers used to leave ventilators open, and in old non-corridor local stock there would always be an empty compartment or two with the droplight left open!

For all the money spent on the section I do wonder why slab track has never been put down there to stop the ballast getting washed away. The next step would be a cut-and-cover type covering.

 

[Bald Rick]

For all the money spent on the section I do wonder why slab track has never been put down there to stop the ballast getting washed away. The next step would be a cut-and-cover type covering.

Presumably because historically when the track has washed away, it has been where the sea wall has been breached and the formation has gone first. Slab track isn't much good if there's nothing to hold it up. It's also much quicker to tip a few truckloads of ballast into a hole than reform a slab.

 

[Cowley]

Presumably because historically when the track has washed away, it has been where the sea wall has been breached and the formation has gone first. Slab track isn't much good if there's nothing to hold it up. It's also much quicker to tip a few truckloads of ballast into a hole than reform a slab.

On the stretch between Dawlish station and Kennaway tunnel the ballast a couple of years ago seemed to have some strange glue like substance sticking it together, at least on the bits by the railings along the pavement, obviously I don't know how far it went towards the running lines. It reminded me of the model railway method of glueing ballast with diluted PVA.
Has anyone else noticed that?

 

[Bald Rick]

That would be glued ballast....

 

[Taunton]

Presumably because historically when the track has washed away, it has been where the sea wall has been breached and the formation has gone first. Slab track isn't much good if there's nothing to hold it up. It's also much quicker to tip a few truckloads of ballast into a hole than reform a slab.

I don't think there have been many wall collapses compared to washouts, which I can recall here back in the 1960s. Marine wall collapses are an extremely unusual event at coastal defences anywhere around the country, a number even more exposed than this one.

About 15 years ago, maybe in Railtrack times, I recall they gave a large contract to Dean & Dyball, marine civil engineering specialists, to do this section "once and for all, a permanent fix". I have to say there were more problems on this section after this was done than I ever remember before.

After the 2014 collapse there was the widely-publicised, even larger reinstatement job by Amco, and this does seem to have fixed the civils side. But it is still exposed to wave action and still ballasted track.

 

[Cowley]

That would be glued ballast....

Well yep, I'd got that far with my deductions , is it all the ballast then or just the shoulders? What sort of solution is it? (Please don't say glue)

 

[Busaholic]

The line at Dawlish has lasted a long time. .

Yes, will soon be its third anniversary.

 

[Cowley]

Yes, will soon be its third anniversary.

Very good

 

[MarkyT]

That would be glued ballast....

Well yep, I'd got that far with my deductions

First time I heard of it being used was at Paddington for the Heathrow Express platforms where operator wanted to maintain very accurate platform edge clearances, particularly in the fairly tight curvature at the country end. Don't think it's model railway spec PVA though!

 

[Woody]

What is becoming increasingly clear now regards the seawall rail route at Dawlish is that a combination of rising sea levels particularly since about 1900 and warmer oceans (thermal expansion) are resulting in an increasing risk of disruption from even relatively modest levels of storminess now. The current weather in Devon is by no means severe by historical standards yet the level of rail disruption at Dawlish seems to be on the increase! But what is really worrying with all this is that what would be totally unacceptable in other parts of the country is fast becoming the accepted norm by both government and the rail industry in Devon. Even the local media both BBC and ITV now pay scant regard now to these constant unacceptable rail disruptions at Dawlish, no doubt under political pressure from Westminster.

 

[najaB]

What is becoming increasingly clear now regards the seawall rail route at Dawlish is that...

Alteratively, it could be that in 1900 there weren't webcams and social media sites providing live, 24/7 coverage of every drop of water coming over the sea wall.

 

[Phil.]

Alteratively, it could be that in 1900 there weren't webcams and social media sites providing live, 24/7 coverage of every drop of water coming over the sea wall.

That's more like it.

 

[Bald Rick]

Alteratively, it could be that in 1900 there weren't webcams and social media sites providing live, 24/7 coverage of every drop of water coming over the sea wall.

Or trains with lots of sensitive electrical equipment on the roof. Or indeed any electrical equipment. Or perhaps even a roof.

 

[Taunton]

What is becoming increasingly clear now regards the seawall rail route at Dawlish

The sea level has changed little in the last century, about 6 inches in some places round the world, some less.

What has happened is that both Network Rail and the TOCs have less ability to handle bad weather - or even just when it is predicted. Poor design of the Voyagers is behind the XC issue, but also NR and the TOCs, both with armies of Delay Attribution Analysts with pens poised ready to stick claims for millions against each other for loss of service. XC for breaking down in the section, and NR for letting the line fail again. So it's the accountants that stop the service. It doesn't help that if XC do break down there, their nearest recovery locomotive is hours away, let alone that they probably have to go up through n layers of management to get it authorised.

Now if you want unreliability, I give you, as the all time prime example, the D63xx diesel hydraulics. What an incompetently designed and assembled piece of modern traction. And yet for all their short lives through the 1960s they were based right here, at Newton Abbot depot, and operated up and down this track section for 10 years. And NEVER got cancelled because the sea looked a bit rough. Despite the cabs, and engine rooms, having more places that let the water in than the biggest sieve you can imagine.

 

[D1009]

What is becoming increasingly clear now regards the seawall rail route at Dawlish is that a combination of rising sea levels particularly since about 1900 and warmer oceans (thermal expansion) are resulting in an increasing risk of disruption from even relatively modest levels of storminess now. The current weather in Devon is by no means severe by historical standards yet the level of rail disruption at Dawlish seems to be on the increase! But what is really worrying with all this is that what would be totally unacceptable in other parts of the country is fast becoming the accepted norm by both government and the rail industry in Devon. Even the local media both BBC and ITV now pay scant regard now to these constant unacceptable rail disruptions at Dawlish, no doubt under political pressure from Westminster.

What level of disruption do you consider unacceptable?

 

[zaax]

A reef needs to be put in to take the power off the waves. Back in the 70's you could walk along the beach (in the Summer) at any state of the tide. I when there last year and only the beach that is left is by Langstone rock.

 

[Woody]

A reef needs to be put in to take the power off the waves. Back in the 70's you could walk along the beach (in the Summer) at any state of the tide. I when there last year and only the beach that is left is by Langstone rock.

I agree. A process known as 'longshore drift’ is continuously removing sand from the beaches at Teignmouth and Dawlish and moving it down the coast towards Exmouth. Before the railway and more importantly the protective sea wall were built there natural erosion of the cliffs would have continually replaced this lost sand. When I passed Dawlish on an earlier train at low tide on the day the GWR HST suffered a cracked windscreen and incidentally two other local units windows were also damaged what was obvious was that all the sand on the beach in front of the sea wall just to the east of Dawlish station has been completely removed exposing vast amounts of stones big and small to wave action.

 

[HOOVER29]

I noticed from when I was down there on holiday last year & the year before that the sea wall was exactly that. What I'm saying is i was up on Kennaway bridge watching the waves & noticed that when a wave hits a wall it's forced upwards. If a wave hits a curved wall ie a C shaped wall then surely the force of the wave is directed back out to see. I'm not an engineer in these things so don't know the ins & outs.
Maybe someone on here knows better.

 

[455driver]

For all the money spent on the section I do wonder why slab track has never been put down there to stop the ballast getting washed away. The next step would be a cut-and-cover type covering.

What happens when the foundations underneath the slab track are washed away?
If you have a concrete slab how do you inspect underneath it?

If the concrete slab is damaged how long would it take to repair compared to good old ballasted track?

The track through the station to Kennaway tunnel is glued ballast and it doesnt seem to move at all.

 

[Class 170101]

The stone that smashed the train windscreen may have come from sediment thrown up by the sea rather than railway ballast so there is no way of stopping that.

Also Health and Safety laws are doubtless tighter now than they were even ten years ago never mind when the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 came into being.

 

[najaB]

The stone that smashed the train windscreen may have come from sediment thrown up by the sea rather than railway ballast ...

I'd say that is more that likely the case. The mechanics of a breaking wave getting a chunk of ballast to windscreen height are a little bit hard to fathom.